Cannabis affects your REM sleep (alcohol also)

[Hawaiian]

I've never understood, why does I rarely see dream's. But I noticed, that when I do not consume for days, all those dream's that I've collected all that time, just pours over my head while sleeping totally sober. I have never paid attention to this tho. Till one day, I was watching some of Joe Rogan's podcasts and found the one with Matthew Walker, a Professor of Neuroscience and Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and Founder and Director of the Center for Human Sleep Science. Who also wrote a book called "Why We Sleep". Then all became clearer...

(you can also check 24:20 and 28:06)

I've also done an experiment on myself, when I still vaped microdoses in the evenings, but at least 4+ hours before going to sleep. I've noticed some improvement of my REM sleep, if I don't do it right before going to bed.

Spoiler: An interesting article

Let’s discuss the effect of the drug on sleep. It has been proven time and time again that cannabis effectively prevents dreams. Some people even profit from this effect, using the drug for the prevention of nightmares. This happens because the drug strips away a considerable portion of a user’s REM (Rapid Eye Movement) sleep, which is the stage linked to dreams. It should be noted that the scientific community also does not know the reason behind this phenomenon.

Now, let’s discuss the importance of sleep. It has been observed in many studies that REM sleep plays a crucial role in cognitive function and memory consolidation. It is too great of a coincidence that those are the precise qualities that are harmed by marijuana use in the long run.

The book Why We Sleep, by Matthew Walker, PhD, highlights some of the essential reasons for sleep in general, and covers some important topics that will be crucial for the understanding of why cannabis affects the brain. In the book, Walker mentions the interesting hypothesis that dreams are a mechanism of the brain to strip away the sting of painful memories over time, thus preventing trauma. He has also observed that individuals who suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) seem to have a deficiency that prevents them from having proper REM sleep. This deficiency is characterized by a failure to bring down norepinephrine levels during REM sleep. It has long been known that a defining characteristic of REM sleep is a sharp decrease in the levels of norepinephrine (usually referred to as the fight or flight neurotransmitter). To Walker’s surprise, another researcher had found a blood pressure drug that had an interesting side effect: it inhibited norepinephrine. Walker, now given a way of testing his hypothesis, soon began trials of the drug on PTSD patients. The results were promising, it seemed that the blood pressure drug was indeed capable of helping individuals with PTSD.

But how does this tie into the subject of marijuana-induced cognitive and memory impairment? The answer is simple, the drug is known to highly increase the levels of norepinephrine in the brain. With this information in mind, I have taken a further step from Walker’s theory and hypothesized that a lack norepinephrine plays a critical role in proper REM sleep. If marijuana increases the levels of norepinephrine, it inherently decreases the amount (or quality) of REM sleep. The pieces of the puzzle started coming together. Low norepinephrine levels are important for proper REM sleep. REM sleep is important for cognitive function and memory consolidation. Marijuana increases the levels of norepinephrine. The increase of norepinephrine caused by cannabis, therefore, must be the reason why marijuana inhibits REM sleep, and the lack of REM sleep must be the reason why a long term impairment in memory and cognitive function is observed in heavy users of the drug.

The procedure was simple, we were to test my Dutch friend’s sleep cycles through a readily available app (called Sleep Cycle) during nights in which she was sober, then on marijuana. Here are the results:

Sober Night​

Sleep on Cannabis​

​

Those two graphs show her sleep after using only cannabis. Notice how there is a great amount of deep sleep (which doesn’t necessarily mean REM sleep) earlier into the night, but then she goes into lighter sleep stages and does not go back into deep sleep.

Source

I wonder, how it affects yours ? It's interesting, because we are all individuals with different habits and genetics.

 

[cosimo]

interesting topic. I would never dream while consuming and as you say, I wouldonly dream if i stoppd for more than thre days and dreams were wild and leaning on the nightmare side!
But a recent new strain I've got has me dreaming every single night even if i vape just before bed.

 

[Cheebsy]

I find most of the time I don't really dream but I can sometimes feel like I've had a dream but can't really remember any details, just that I've woken up with a particular feeling.

I do have a severe sleep disorder that I treat with cannabis so I'm vaping heavily right before bed. I can tell you that not really dreaming is much more preferable to not getting any quality sleep at all. I am much more impaired cognitivly after a few nights of interrupted minimal sleep.

 

[Farid]

I never used to dream. I wasn't a heavy user, but I vaped maybe 0.2gs a day spaced out through out the day. I had to stop for a trip, and when I did the dreams came flooding back. During the quitting process I also had a lot of side effects like anxiety and irritability.

Since that trip I've been very regimented, only smoking miniscule amounts: probably about 0.015gs split into 2 hits, one in at 9am and one at 7pm.

While using this tiny amount I've been dreaming every night, and remembering the dreams. A couple of weeks ago I quit using all together in preparation for a drug test, and this time quitting was a piece of cake. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever.

It seems to me that there is a threshold where the dose is so low that it doesn't carry over into the next day. With the super low dose it felt like my tolerance reset itself completely between days. It also helps that my last dose was a few hours before going to bed I'm sure.

 

[Hawaiian]

interesting topic. I would never dream while consuming and as you say, I wouldonly dream if i stoppd for more than thre days and dreams were wild and leaning on the nightmare side!
But a recent new strain I've got has me dreaming every single night even if i vape just before bed.

My first dreams were also nightmares. Man, it was intense... But with time they've changed. I even managed once, that I was in the dream so I could do all I want, that was so interesting experience!

I find most of the time I don't really dream but I can sometimes feel like I've had a dream but can't really remember any details, just that I've woken up with a particular feeling.

I do have a severe sleep disorder that I treat with cannabis so I'm vaping heavily right before bed. I can tell you that not really dreaming is much more preferable to not getting any quality sleep at all. I am much more impaired cognitivly after a few nights of interrupted minimal sleep.

I see what you mean about that forgotten dreaming feeling.

I have a friend of mine who prefer to vape to fall asleep. He even told me that if he doesn't, he sweats a lot while sleeping.

I never used to dream. I wasn't a heavy user, but I vaped maybe 0.2gs a day spaced out through out the day. I had to stop for a trip, and when I did the dreams came flooding back. During the quitting process I also had a lot of side effects like anxiety and irritability.

Since that trip I've been very regimented, only smoking miniscule amounts: probably about 0.015gs split into 2 hits, one in at 9am and one at 7pm.

While using this tiny amount I've been dreaming every night, and remembering the dreams. A couple of weeks ago I quit using all together in preparation for a drug test, and this time quitting was a piece of cake. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever.

It seems to me that there is a threshold where the dose is so low that it doesn't carry over into the next day. With the super low dose it felt like my tolerance reset itself completely between days. It also helps that my last dose was a few hours before going to bed I'm sure.

I also microdosing, but a bit more than you, something like 0.03. It definitely changes the whole experience!

 

[florduh]

Vaping THC before bed reduces the number of dreams I remember, but I still wake up remembering my dreams every other night. Since dreaming is basically just your brain making up stories and then getting scared by them, I'm ok with the reduction

I do get concerned with sleep quality though. On his recent stream with Troy, @stickstones mentioned an MMA fighter who does THC during the day, and CBD at night. He apparently always remembers his dreams. I found this interesting since I have the exact opposite schedule (CBD during the day/THC at night). Might be worth switching to CBD a few hours before bed to see if it improves sleep quality.

 

[stickstones]

Vaping THC before bed reduces the number of dreams I remember, but I still wake up remembering my dreams every other night. Since dreaming is basically just your brain making up stories and then getting scared by them, I'm ok with the reduction

I do get concerned with sleep quality though. On his recent stream with Troy, @stickstones mentioned an MMA fighter who does THC during the day, and CBD at night. He apparently always remembers his dreams. I found this interesting since I have the exact opposite schedule (CBD during the day/THC at night). Might be worth switching to CBD a few hours before bed to see if it improves sleep quality.

lemme know how that goes!

 

[KeroZen]

I didn't remember my dreams when I was a heavy combuster. But they came back super strong and with great clarity since I've been vaping. I also make quite often lucid dreams since.

 

[Cannabiker]

Vaping THC before bed reduces the number of dreams I remember, but I still wake up remembering my dreams every other night. Since dreaming is basically just your brain making up stories and then getting scared by them, I'm ok with the reduction

I do get concerned with sleep quality though. On his recent stream with Troy, @stickstones mentioned an MMA fighter who does THC during the day, and CBD at night. He apparently always remembers his dreams. I found this interesting since I have the exact opposite schedule (CBD during the day/THC at night). Might be worth switching to CBD a few hours before bed to see if it improves sleep quality.

I don't switch before bed, I just add some CBD in liquid form, soda and/or tea, and I go about my usual vaping routine. I started remembering my dreams again, and I believe I'm sleeping a little deeper, though I didn't have any sleep issues to speak of, except the lack of dreams
.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Yeah it varies, sometimes I do sometimes I don't, perhaps related to the wide variety of strains I enjoy... Also my range of consumption can vary, some nights go hard, some I just trail off... I got some CBD bud recently, but I'm not sure I noticed a lot of difference working that into the mix, maybe because I'm not being consistent or scientific about any of this lol

 

[ginolicious]

I dunno. I seem to dream if I have a few hits of CBD and maybe 1-2 beers. Some nights I never dream or well don’t remember them. but I don’t think it’s because of cannabis.

 

[BrianTL]

I find if I'm anything past a moderate buzz, alcohol or weed, I wont dream at all. Or at least I wont remember it when I wake up.

I haven't gone to bed stone sober in quite a while but the last few times I did, after getting used to sleeping with the helping hand of THC, I had very vivid and wild dreams.

I definitely think they both lower the quality of your sleep, but its like a fine line because if I dont indulge, then I just dont sleep.... so giving up on a bit of REM sleep in exchange for not tossing and turning endlessly is a fair trade to me.

 

[GrapeNuts]

I consume regularly throughout the day (think British people and their tea break) and have done for the last 15 years. Fwiw I dab around 1g a week, vape around 3.5g a week and combust (sorry!) around 3.5g a week.

I have very vivid, highly complex dreams, or at least I feel like they are. It's a bit like the movie Inception with the shifting worlds, but not limited to a city. Could be jungle, forest, mountains, metropolis, past, present, future, you name it.
I often have dreams within dreams, and sometimes dreams within dreams within dreams. They are exhausting to talk about and describe, but the experience is actually very pleasant. Must be my mind unloading. This is almost every night and it's fantastic.

If I abstain for a few days, my sleep becomes incredibly restless and I do not remember my dreams nor do I associate those nights with having dreamt much. I put this down to withdrawal because I wake up drenched in sweat.

If I go for a couple of weeks without consuming anything (maybe 2-3 occasions in the last decade), I will remember dreams once every two or three days. They are similar to my normal 'daily' dreams, but they don't seem as long or as detailed. There tends to be fewer characters in these dreams as well. These remind me of what I remember dreams were like as a kid.

On a side note - If I go to sleep with alcohol in my system, my dreams will be much simpler and more generic. Like opening a door for someone, or having a conversation. Very regular sort of stuff.

Great thread, never really thought to write any of this down!

 

[shredder]

This is kinda awkward but y'all are my dream. When I wake up it's all over.

Have a good day!

 

[MegaMan2k]

Heavy dreaming almost every night, very often involves people and places i know but set in weird alternative realities.
Super trippy

I dab from 7 in the morning untill i go to sleep at night, usually 1 dab every 1.5-2 hours, dab size : 0.05, total dabs in a day usually around 6-7.

Strains: Sugarcane, Platinum O.G, Double O.G , Forgotten Cookies, all high thc no cbd.
all my dabs are made without solvents and from organic grown herb.

I use to prevent hortons seizures whichs causes alot of pain when they trigger but i guess if my brain is constantly fried it cant seizure? lol...

 

[Greenteam]

When I'm consuming I never dream or can't remember any of my dreams. In fact I sleep like a stone, irrespective of indica or sativa, nevertheless the process of falling alseep is more comfortable with low thc or indica strains. But where I live I have almost no choice which strain I get, so I have no reliable experience with that. When I'm on a t-break (mostly because nothing is available for weeks or months), after 2-3 days i start to dream or remember them, also more on the nightmare side or about awkward social situations, and I suffer from increased sweating an early awakening which I interpret as withdrawal symptoms. After some weeks most of this symptoms are gone and the frequency of dreaming is reduced again and not so uncomfortable as in the beginning. But even after several months of no consumption I subjectively feel that my sleep-quality was better while consuming because was feeling more well-rested throughout the day. Others would say sleep or the feeling of beeing well-rested would improve after a while but I never reached that point. I feel that this has to to with the fact, that if I stop consuming by my own choice versus beeing 'forced' to stop. Perhaps my craving and my hope of getting some flower conserves somehow my withdrawal phase.

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

I dream just fine when using marijuana, which I use to even out my sleep. I sleep better with the help of medical marijuana. In fact I did not realize just how disturbed my sleep had become until I started using medical marijuana (high THC strains only). And suddenly I was sleeping much better.

Without medical marijuana my sleep is frequently interrupted and I don't really stay asleep long enough to enter REM sleep for any appreciable amount of time. This is also part of the reason why such sleep that I DID manage, was not terribly restful.

That all changed when I started vaping. Now I regularly get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep instead of waking or near-waking every couple of hours - assuming I manage to drop off at all.

 

[RobbIt]

I dream just fine when using marijuana, which I use to even out my sleep. I sleep better with the help of medical marijuana. In fact I did not realize just how disturbed my sleep had become until I started using medical marijuana (high THC strains only). And suddenly I was sleeping much better.

Without medical marijuana my sleep is frequently interrupted and I don't really stay asleep long enough to enter REM sleep for any appreciable amount of time. This is also part of the reason why such sleep that I DID manage, was not terribly restful.

That all changed when I started vaping. Now I regularly get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep instead of waking or near-waking every couple of hours - assuming I manage to drop off at all.

I dream just fine when using marijuana, which I use to even out my sleep. I sleep better with the help of medical marijuana. In fact I did not realize just how disturbed my sleep had become until I started using medical marijuana (high THC strains only). And suddenly I was sleeping much better.

Without medical marijuana my sleep is frequently interrupted and I don't really stay asleep long enough to enter REM sleep for any appreciable amount of time. This is also part of the reason why such sleep that I DID manage, was not terribly restful.

That all changed when I started vaping. Now I regularly get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep instead of waking or near-waking every couple of hours - assuming I manage to drop off at all.

I dream just fine when using marijuana, which I use to even out my sleep. I sleep better with the help of medical marijuana. In fact I did not realize just how disturbed my sleep had become until I started using medical marijuana (high THC strains only). And suddenly I was sleeping much better.

Without medical marijuana my sleep is frequently interrupted and I don't really stay asleep long enough to enter REM sleep for any appreciable amount of time. This is also part of the reason why such sleep that I DID manage, was not terribly restful.

That all changed when I started vaping. Now I regularly get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep instead of waking or near-waking every couple of hours - assuming I manage to drop off at all.

 

[Hawaiian]

Some rules for Good Sleep Hygiene:​

1. The bed is only for Sleep and Sex.
   • Don't turn your bedroom into your desk, study room, reading room, etc.
2. Don't have a TV in your bedroom.
3. Don't be in the habit of napping during the day.
4. Fix your bedtime.
5. Don't drink alcohol 4 hours prior to bedtime (MJ also?).
6. On the same note, don't eat heavy food before bed.
7. Have good bedding, make your bed, and clean your sheets.
8. The optimal studied temperature is 68 degrees to sleep.
9. Don't sleep with distracting noises or lights.
10. Don't take your worries to bed.
11. Have the same pre-sleep ritual.
12. Try to wake up at the same time every day.

 

[Buildozer]

Literally nothing has ever stopped me from having extremely active and vivid dreams throughout my whole life. I never could relate when people claim this or that kills your dreams. My mind is trained for lucid dreaming though, so that might make it easier to remember these things. I think it's more likely you're sleeping really deep and not remembering dreams, rather than having none; maybe heavy Delta state. I tend to wake up a lot throughout the night and get back to sleep easily, so maybe my REM state is more recurring than others throughout the night, and maybe my Delta state is interrupted from all that?

 

[His_Highness]

My wife and I have vivid dreams just about every night. We drink alcohol each night and use cannabis during the day and night. My wife's dreams are extremely vivid, crazy and she can remember every single detail. My dreams aren't nearly as vivid and I can "get back into the same dream" a time or two during the night but I can't recall every little detail the way the wife does.

Recently, due to the change of seasons, my wife is sporadically getting a low level migraine before bed. We deal with these migraines by filling a couple bags as part of the bedtime ritual. Dreams are still occurring each night.

We both have a Fitbit that tracks sleep and my wife's scores barely get into the 'ok' sleep range where I generally get into the 'good' range. According to my readings I'm getting 2 to 3 hours of REM, 1.5 to 2 hours of Deep Sleep, and 3 to 4 hours of Light Sleep for an average of 8 to 9 hours sleep a night.

 

[invertedisdead]

I haven’t had dreams since I started vaping.

One of the few things I dislike about cannabis, the metaphysics of a “dream killer” is pretty rough.

I’ve heard many say similar over the years about not experiencing dreams so I’m a bit surprised if not curious of the results of this thread.

 

[His_Highness]

Some folks dream and sleep without recognizing it. When my brother visits he 'naps' during the day and he talks in his sleep. The funny part is that these daytime naps don't seem to register even when he talks in his sleep during them. At night he'll say he can't sleep and I'll remind him he fell asleep on the couch a couple times and he'll say he wasn't really sleeping. That's when I'll repeat what he mumbled with his eyes closed on that couch and he'll still deny he was getting any sleep........well, then who the hell were you talking to during that time where you were resting your eyes cause it wasn't me.

 

[angular ocelot]

i am glad not to have dreams. for me, it is a massive benefit of cannabis.

 

[CurryLeafTreehugger]

Some folks dream and sleep without recognizing it. When my brother visits he 'naps' during the day and he talks in his sleep. The funny part is that these daytime naps don't seem to register even when he talks in his sleep during them. At night he'll say he can't sleep and I'll remind him he fell asleep on the couch a couple times and he'll say he wasn't really sleeping. That's when I'll repeat what he mumbled with his eyes closed on that couch and he'll still deny he was getting any sleep........well, then who the hell were you talking to during that time where you were resting your eyes cause it wasn't me.

Your brother is experiencing DISTURBED sleep. His sleep is not restful and is prone to interruption. "Napping" during the day is due to exhaustion and isn't particularly restful either.

I lived that way for decades and didn't realize how badly my sleep had become disturbed because it had become normal to me. It made everything else I had to deal with so much worse - being tired all the time and not realizing it drags you down in ways even I can't fully imagine (even after living with it for so long).

For all intents and purposes, and despite surface appearances, your brother ISN'T sleeping.