Cannabis activism - shaping the debate

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
ive sounded off on the topic plenty around here, I thought I’d try to corral it rather than bleed all over other threads. I’m at the stage where I do my best thinking ‘out loud’, and typing is the best substitute I have....

I want to start of by saying that putting together and pushing an national cannabis agenda is no dust-off of states currently some form of legal, or seriously considering the move. Stop the arrests, begin the release and expungement. At the same time, those state efforts are important in their own right and won’t be damaged by a clear set of user/grower priorities.

The top priorities as I have them so far:

- an immediate national moratorium on cannabis-related arrests, where cannabis is THE infraction
- the immediate release of all cannabis felons who have served at least half their term
- the immediate descheduling of cannabis
- the expungement of cannabis centered arrests and prosecutions from criminal records
- an apology to the public and to cannabis users for the damage done by bad law
- a nullification of laws, state and federal, that are based on prohibition law or logic
- essential freedoms: to grow and use, to gift and share, to sell privately, to sell publicly as a pure product


By putting this up, I’m not saying we should all fight to the last gasp for every point, but it gives the conversation a starting point?

Criticisms? Complaints? Additions?
 

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
we would have to somehow convince the controllers of all things to stop controlling plants ... that control Yo is Real . maintaining the lack attitude to keep prices High . each person, each responsible constituents ETC... the controllers are not letting up
 

hans solo

Left coast Canada
Rescheduling seems to me the key. As long as cannabis is considered to be as dangerous as heroin and more dangerous than fentanyl nothing will change.
In Canada we have moved past this point and things are better but not even close to ideal.
 

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
We definitely need to avoid getting bogged down in squabbles that detract from what we want - and avoid policies and practices that have already worked out poorly or misfired altogether.

we want descheduling rather than rescheduling, because we want them OUT of weed life entirely, not maintaining a toehold for making trouble, which is what shuffling cannabis to a different schedule would in fact be - and without improving anything.

most effective way to “convince the controllers of all things” of *anything* is to keep showing up on their radar, keep focus and be specific, don’t get distracted, keep going - it’s a campaign, not an inning...otherwise we’re just throwing things at the TV

I’m sure we all are creative enough if we apply it. What would an effective social media plan to boost awareness of, and support for, a “we’re sorry, we took it all down, we won’t do it again” National cannabis policy look like? Who would be the target audience?
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Also a high paid cannabis lobbyist. Having younger people in office would help. Vote the democrats in. All would help to decriminalize cannabis. Ordinary folks like yourselves should get involved. Even donating to causes that help like NORMAL.
 

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
We definitely need to avoid getting bogged down in squabbles that detract from what we want - and avoid policies and practices that have already worked out poorly or misfired altogether.

we want descheduling rather than rescheduling, because we want them OUT of weed life entirely, not maintaining a toehold for making trouble, which is what shuffling cannabis to a different schedule would in fact be - and without improving anything.

most effective way to “convince the controllers of all things” of *anything* is to keep showing up on their radar, keep focus and be specific, don’t get distracted, keep going - it’s a campaign, not an inning...otherwise we’re just throwing things at the TV

I’m sure we all are creative enough if we apply it. What would an effective social media plan to boost awareness of, and support for, a “we’re sorry, we took it all down, we won’t do it again” National cannabis policy look like? Who would be the target audience?
the money has simply mopvedfrom enforcement to sales now... it is amausing= all of a sudden a State is cannabis Legal!!!! yay!! exceopt it is all Gov weed LOL.... huge corps only allowed with millions buy in ETC.... lowly tax payer cannot even grow the plant Fuck it
 
C No Ego,

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
Also a high paid cannabis lobbyist. Having younger people in office would help. Vote the democrats in. All would help to decriminalize cannabis. Ordinary folks like yourselves should get involved. Even donating to causes that help like NORMAL.
Don't "vote the democrats in" for the sake of pot. There is ALWAYS going to be at least two parties (If your vote is to matter at all.) and you have to convince them both in order to get the world you want. I don't think this thread is really talking about simple decriminalization but true legalization. You are not going to get legalization from either party, but from people convinced it is the right thing to do.

Pushing descheduling as a pure political party issue is sure to keep it a point the people in power will continue to use to keep the populace agitated. The pendulum swings and different people are agitated. Money flows in, power shifts and those who pushed it over the finish line without public support from all sides guarantee a fight over everything always.

The Democrats don't really like descheduling. They like the money, inchoate guilt and the hyper-regulatory control of decriminalization. Talk to the Libertarians if you want descheduling--it's a core belief. (Not because they want pot, but because they want freedom.) In fact, I suspect we're going to have to define goals to really determine the party most likely to change things. Even then, we've been lied to before and will be lied to again. Only when the people care will the politicians. Convincing people to vote "D" is fine. Convincing people to vote "D" because it will smooth the path to descheduling is ahistorical.

(For shits and giggles, look to Wikipedia's "Decriminalization of non-medical cannabis in the United States" and then compare important dates to the particular state's political makeup of the time. Progress seems to happen when you convince Republicans and not when you vote in Democrats.)

As to NORMAL, I take no position. I know in the run-up to California regulation of cannabis, there were a number who did not feel NORMAL was really representing user's best interests. If you want to donate, I hear the Marijuana Policy Project, while not around as long as NORMAL, does a lot of good work on fixing the laws.
 
Tranquility,
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I’m not voting the dems in for pot alone. Like I wouldn’t vote for a prez strictly on those lines. Other things I’m considering. It’s a decision with a lot in mind.

It would b good to get younger blood and diversity in the senate, congress and also in state government.
 

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
the money has simply mopvedfrom enforcement to sales now... it is amausing= all of a sudden a State is cannabis Legal!!!! yay!! exceopt it is all Gov weed LOL.... huge corps only allowed with millions buy in ETC.... lowly tax payer cannot even grow the plant Fuck it
If the choice is fuck it or fight it, I’ll fight


Also a high paid cannabis lobbyist. Having younger people in office would help. Vote the democrats in. All would help to decriminalize cannabis. Ordinary folks like yourselves should get involved. Even donating to causes that help like NORMAL.
Dunno about a Highly-paid anything, but absolutely, everyone who wants to use cannabis for any reason needs to get involved in making it happen, or it will just get worse: public pressure is one of the few things politicians *MUST* respond to

I’m not voting the dems in for pot alone. Like I wouldn’t vote for a prez strictly on those lines. Other things I’m considering. It’s a decision with a lot in mind.

It would b good to get younger blood and diversity in the senate, congress and also in state government.

Agree on all points
 
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TheThriftDrifter

Land of the long vapor cloud
@OldNewbie

Thanks for posting the above videos, a really interesting watch, much food for thought.

We have a vote on cannabis comming up in 2020 here in NZ, but not a whole lot of public discussion happening, not alot of info on what we will even be voting for yet.

Its gonna be interesting.
 
TheThriftDrifter,

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
A former head of the FDA, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, made comments on the record regarding cannabis recently, and it’s full of stale old “ideas” about OFP. If the idea of this thread is to talk sense to people (who think) like him, I’m going to highlight the things we need to be prepared to counter.

Gottlieb said the caller’s comment raised the importance of differentiating legalization and decriminalization, arguing that legal cannabis systems pose public health concerns due to the potential impact of THC on brain development.

“I do think that we’re conducting a very large and potentially unfortunate national experiment in this country by making THC and marijuana so widely available, particularly seeing the rapid rise in youth use of THC,” he said. “There are going to be long-term effects from that on developing brains, seeing so many kids now using THC because of the legalization of these products and the retraction of any stigma associated with the use of these products.”

Right off the bat, Gottlieb gets busy churning up the legalization/decriminalization worm pot, and sounds confused doing it: he laments the risks of our “very large, uncontrolled experiment” - as if that same experiment hasn’t been running for 90 years, we get the danger to developing brains meme, and an imaginary increase in youth use...will no-one think of the children????


Then he goes in head-first on the legalization-decriminalization-regulation confusion:

But while Gottlieb made his opposition to legalization clear, he said the country “could look at decriminalizing marijuana, and there are valid reasons why we ought to do that from a public policy standpoint.”

“That discussion should be separate from legalization, particularly around recreational use,” he said.

“Two things: one, I think we ought to look at decriminalizing it,” he added. “People are arrested for possession of marijuana and face sentences that are oftentimes in excess of what they would receive for offenses that I think are far more significant and serious. You do see too many people I think developing significant criminal records for small possession charges of marijuana.”

He does at least make it clear he views decriminalization as an LEO stance, not as a change of law, which is much more than just ‘problematic’. For one thing, his remarks seem completely oblivious to the importance of the school-to-prison pipeline in maintaining the intergenerational balance of political power in the US.

He does end up showing us he’s not totally asleep, before slipping back into what are now anti-scientific prejudices:

While the former FDA official said that the country’s marijuana reform efforts should be limited to decriminalization, he also conceded that “ultimately we’re going to have to have a federal reckoning around” questions about differing state marijuana programs in contrast to federal law and the varying accessibility to cannabis that results.

“We’ve seen so many states move forward with different laws, many of which I believe are far too permissive from a public health standpoint in terms of making THC available to young people and making it available too widely that we’re going to want to have a federal regime that probably standardizes this and maybe puts in place more stringent safeguards around keeping these kinds of products out of the hands of particularly kids, where you have the biggest public health concerns and the biggest concerns around long-term implications of THC use,” he said.


Just for the record, Gottlieb is the only one talking about kids (explicitly and laboriously excluded from every from every cannabis ‘liberalization’ effort so far), his ‘reasonable public health concerns’ are found to be counterfactual and misplaced, and attempting to use “legalization” as a hammer with which to force more oppressive regulations has arguably failed overall (my opinion, based on news and opinions from the ‘legal’ states).

A single page rant might be satisfying, but most satisfying would be this person, this set of junk notions, actually getting it, so how do I do that? Probably by keeping it to ONE solid point per call/email/whatevs.

Try to boil it down:
- legalization, decriminalization, regulation
- outdated, unsupported unscientific consensus
- a reckoning between popular ignorance v science in law and in fed/state discrepancies

Okay, 3 is a good number, but I want to make sure I’m ‘slicing the pie’ properly and that last one seems hincky/off-balance...so I review again and add:

- doubling down on greater restrictions, ‘for the kids’
- the dangers of an “unregulated public experiment with cannabis“

...which makes five, but it feels tighter now (imagination?)

This gives me 5 well defined topics drawn from his recent comments. Each one can be addressed simply, briefly, and pointedly (yes, and politely). Each can be sent to each of my representatives, can be reinforced over time. They can be enhanced and elaborated at will as long as I stay focused on each point. Stay on message.

It’s not that this man is so important: it’s that we have to get through to people who aren’t on our side and who have their own plans, so I hope you’ll pardon this breakdown of an interview for rebuttal, it helps me clarify when I take things out and dust them off....


————

Below is the full text of the MariMo article:

The former head of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) said that the country should consider decriminalizing marijuana and create a federal regulatory framework to “standardize” state-level cannabis markets. But he doesn’t personally back full-scale legalization.

During an appearance on C-SPAN’s Washington Journal on Wednesday, Scott Gottlieb took a call from a Washington State viewer who said legalization was working well for the state and that it was a better system than incarcerating people for marijuana offenses.

Gottlieb said the caller’s comment raised the importance of differentiating legalization and decriminalization, arguing that legal cannabis systems pose public health concerns due to the potential impact of THC on brain development.

“I do think that we’re conducting a very large and potentially unfortunate national experiment in this country by making THC and marijuana so widely available, particularly seeing the rapid rise in youth use of THC,” he said. “There are going to be long-term effects from that on developing brains, seeing so many kids now using THC because of the legalization of these products and the retraction of any stigma associated with the use of these products.”

(Recent studies, including one published in JAMA Pediatrics last month, have indicated that youth consumption actually decreases in states where cannabis is legalized, possibly due to regulations that keep underage consumers from purchasing marijuana.)

But while Gottlieb made his opposition to legalization clear, he said the country “could look at decriminalizing marijuana, and there are valid reasons why we ought to do that from a public policy standpoint.”

“That discussion should be separate from legalization, particularly around recreational use,” he said.

“Two things: one, I think we ought to look at decriminalizing it,” he added. “People are arrested for possession of marijuana and face sentences that are oftentimes in excess of what they would receive for offenses that I think are far more significant and serious. You do see too many people I think developing significant criminal records for small possession charges of marijuana.” The comments go further in support of decriminalization than when Gottlieb signaled he supported the policy position last year, though they still fall short of an explicit endorsement.

The host asked Gottlieb if he’d discussed decriminalization with the White House during his time at FDA. He said he hadn’t “because my domain was largely public health and the discussion that I would typically get drawn into was the question around legalization and particularly around the youth use of these products.”

While the former FDA official said that the country’s marijuana reform efforts should be limited to decriminalization, he also conceded that “ultimately we’re going to have to have a federal reckoning around” questions about differing state marijuana programs in contrast to federal law and the varying accessibility to cannabis that results.

“We’ve seen so many states move forward with different laws, many of which I believe are far too permissive from a public health standpoint in terms of making THC available to young people and making it available too widely that we’re going to want to have a federal regime that probably standardizes this and maybe puts in place more stringent safeguards around keeping these kinds of products out of the hands of particularly kids, where you have the biggest public health concerns and the biggest concerns around long-term implications of THC use,” he said.

“I suspect we’re a couple of political cycles away from doing that—not because of a Republican or a Democratic issue, this is not necessarily a partisan political issue,” he said. “I think it’s just going to take the federal government more time to catch up to what’s going on in the states.”
 
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