Bong Inhaling Technique

[Pappy]

Greetings all. As some may know I've been away from my home base (and my bong collection) the past few months. I began vapor bonging in September 2010 and never looked back. My lips never tasted vapor that wasn't bong filtered after that -- until February 2011!

Now, in retrospect, I realize bonging, or perhaps my bong technique, led to some negative repercussions like respiratory infection and dry throat I wish to avoid upon my return to bonging. Was that really a sentence?

Here's the deal. Took DBV on road with me and vaped with it exclusively. A month or so later my throat and lungs felt better than they had in months! Why? I know from experience that bongs deliver cleaner smoother vapor. What is it about a bong, and I've used a dozen different models and types, that causes more irritation than straight vaping? I've narrowed it down to two possibilities. It's either my breathing technique or an X (extraneous) factor like I use an EQV when vapor bonging, not a DBV. My preliminary conclusion is it's the former, my breathing technique, not the latter. Here's my thinking.

In analyzing the different way I hit a vape, as opposed to a bong, I noticed I use my mouth to inhale a vape and my lungs to inhale a bong. Inhaling from the lungs is more traumatic on the throat and lungs, I believe, than using your mouth as a first chamber and then inhaling into the throat and lungs. At least that's my theory. It remains to be proven in practice when I get back to Cali and resume bonging.

Thanks for hearing me out and I welcome you comments.

 

[WatTyler]

I've seen an interesting post a while back by magic flight about the vapor streams getting 'organised' as they flow through straight tubes, and that this could somehow increase the irritation at the back of the throat? (at least in the context of the LB). Not sure how convinced I am, but it seems to me maybe that long tube of a bong would be doing this as well, although surely as the vapor passes over your lips some turbulence would be created.

(edit: found the post on vaporpedia http://www.vaporpedia.com/wiki/Magi..._tube_but_not_when_I_use_.22native_mode.22.3F seems it was meant in the context of hot vapor hitting the back of the throat, making what I wrote less relevant. But vapor is still a slight irritant even if cooled, so what's said about it hitting the back of the throat might still stand. I dunno)

You say inhale with your mouth- do you mean kind of dropping your jaw to create a vacuum, a bit like puffing a cigar? Then using your diaphragm after, when the piece has left your lips? Not sure if I could draw enough into my mouth like that....

 

[Pappy]

You say inhale with your mouth- do you mean kind of dropping your jaw to create a vacuum, a bit like puffing a cigar? Then using your diaphragm after, when the piece has left your lips? Not sure if I could draw enough into my mouth like that....

I mean I sip a vape whereas I suck from my diaphragm (pertinent word) with a bong. I think sipping the bong first will prove less stressful on the throat and diaphragm.

 

[OO]

You say inhale with your mouth- do you mean kind of dropping your jaw to create a vacuum, a bit like puffing a cigar? Then using your diaphragm after, when the piece has left your lips? Not sure if I could draw enough into my mouth like that....

I mean I sip a vape whereas I suck from my diaphragm (pertinent word) with a bong. I think sipping the bong first will prove less stressful on the throat and diaphragm.

the sipping technique will cool the vapor more, because your mouth is cooler than the air being drawn into it, and then it is cooled further when in the lungs.
this is as opposed to just pulling it straight into the lungs, where your lungs do all of the cooling.
though, this is discounting the differance in cooling between water filtration and without, though using a whip you cool the vapor, possibly to a similar temperature that water cooling would, but you may be using the whip before water cooling, in which case it should be cooler.

there's a number of factors to consider, find what works best for you and keep on thinking.

 

[VapeHead.com]

respiratory infection

How clean is your water and how often do you change it? Where do you store your bong when not in use? Filtered or tap water? etc. An infection implies biological nasties, unless it's just the humidity in your lungs that's giving you trouble?

 

[Nycdeisel]

Actually, since the EQ has an air path that goes through the electronics, and the DBV doesnt, it makes sense that the DBV would be less irritating either way.

I noticed that with my VB, where the air also goes through the insides, it started to irritate my throat towards the end of its life. never had such a problem with the DBV.

why are you using your diaphram? I always thought that was a bad thing, as you can accidentally swallow some vapor if you are taking a very large hit. use your lungs, but when you start to pull, use your mouth/cheeks a bit more. just try it out. also keep your glass very clean, inside and out, etc etc

 

[Pappy]

the sipping technique will cool the vapor more, because your mouth is cooler than the air being drawn into it, and then it is cooled further when in the lungs. this is as opposed to just pulling it straight into the lungs, where your lungs do all of the cooling.

agree, I came to same conclusion.

respiratory infection

How clean is your water and how often do you change it? Where do you store your bong when not in use? Filtered or tap water? etc. An infection implies biological nasties, unless it's just the humidity in your lungs that's giving you trouble?

I change my water between each bowl and am fanatical about clean glass. My doctor warned against using hot water in a bong precisely because humidity in the lungs can incubate infections. But I took his warning with a grain of salt since he doesn't vape or bong.

Actually, since the EQ has an air path that goes through the electronics, and the DBV doesnt, it makes sense that the DBV would be less irritating either way.

I noticed that with my VB, where the air also goes through the insides, it started to irritate my throat towards the end of its life. never had such a problem with the DBV.

why are you using your diaphram? I always thought that was a bad thing, as you can accidentally swallow some vapor if you are taking a very large hit. use your lungs, but when you start to pull, use your mouth/cheeks a bit more. just try it out. also keep your glass very clean, inside and out, etc etc

I thought about that with the EQV but I'm still not convinced. I actually use my upper lungs to inhale a bong, as opposed to sipping through my mouth, because more breath is required to fill a bong and clear it. But I question whether my technique is correct.

 

[caseball2051]

I exhale out all the air I can and intake as long as I can with my MZ and EHLE 250. (no diffuser)

I use my lungs, diaphragm. Luckily, Ive never had any issues with throat or respiratory systems. Mind if I ask how old you are pappy? Perhaps my young age allows me to recover faster or just not be affected.

 

[Pappy]

I exhale out all the air I can and intake as long as I can with my MZ and EHLE 250. (no diffuser)

I use my lungs, diaphragm. Luckily, Ive never had any issues with throat or respiratory systems. Mind if I ask how old you are pappy? Perhaps my young age allows me to recover faster or just not be affected.

I'm in my 60s and that certainly is a factor. What I would have given for a vape 45 years ago when I first got into the devil's lettuce.

 

[caseball2051]

hahaha might be a bit stereotypical, but I always assumed you were older by the name. I just associate Pappy with a grandfather type figure. Us youngins (early 20s) are lucky for the quality and paraphernalia that we can use.

 

[Nycdeisel]

hahaha might be a bit stereotypical, but I always assumed you were older by the name. I just associate Pappy with a grandfather type figure. Us youngins (early 20s) are lucky for the quality and paraphernalia that we can use.

Very well said, and almost my thoughts exactly.

I would look into the DBVs clean air path vs that of the EQ. I really DO think it makes a difference. besides, this is ones health we are talking about.

 

[hereatlast]

Actually, since the EQ has an air path that goes through the electronics, and the DBV doesnt, it makes sense that the DBV would be less irritating either way.

I disagree with this. While the EQ's airpath does pass over electronics, I can't really see how that would be the culprit in this case. There are far too many variables setting the two units apart to isolate this one as a scapegoat IMO.

the sipping technique will cool the vapor more, because your mouth is cooler than the air being drawn into it, and then it is cooled further when in the lungs. this is as opposed to just pulling it straight into the lungs, where your lungs do all of the cooling.

While I appreciate the logic here and it makes sense, I'm not sure pragmatically speaking this will have much of an effect. After all, "pulling [vapor] straight into the lungs" isn't really possible per se, it has to pass through the mouth either way as I see it. (EDIT: though it certainly is the case that the vapor spends more time in the mouth/throat which would have some cooling effect I agree)

though, this is discounting the differance in cooling between water filtration and without, though using a whip you cool the vapor, possibly to a similar temperature that water cooling would, but you may be using the whip before water cooling, in which case it should be cooler.

As you seem to allude to, I just can't see the 'coolness' of the vapor being an issue here. It sounds as if Pappy is using tubing either way (dry delivery or via water filtration). Further, the glass (and being somewhat familiar with Pap's collection) and diffusion will certainly cool the vapor to a further extent than solely the whip.


One thing that I don't necessarily think has been brought up explicitly is the size and awareness of the size of the hit. That is, when using solely the whip and your 'puckering' or 'sucking' methodology, you must be very aware of the density and size of the hit that you're receiving...its hard to get much more than you're cognizant of when hitting directly through the whip IME (due to the nature of the vapor passing more slowly through your mouth and throat). Whereas the direct-whip-hitting allows a fairly precise gauging to take place, when hitting one of your bongs/bubblers, you're really 'shotgunning' the whole hit at once to speak. IMO/E, the only real appeal to hit size when using water-filtration is the visual cue (whoa that's getting milky ) though vapor is slowly being drawn into the body as well. In any case, I think perhaps when your back at homebase you can experience with hit size, maybe taking half the size you would normally take with your glass.

 

[Pappy]

One thing that I don't necessarily think has been brought up explicitly is the size and awareness of the size of the hit. That is, when using solely the whip and your 'puckering' or 'sucking' methodology, you must be very aware of the density and size of the hit that you're receiving...its hard to get much more than you're cognizant of when hitting directly through the whip IME (due to the nature of the vapor passing more slowly through your mouth and throat). Whereas the direct-whip-hitting allows a fairly precise gauging to take place, when hitting one of your bongs/bubblers, you're really 'shotgunning' the whole hit at once to speak. IMO/E, the only real appeal to hit size when using water-filtration is the visual cue (whoa that's getting milky ) though vapor is slowly being drawn into the body as well. In any case, I think perhaps when your back at homebase you can experience with hit size, maybe taking half the size you would normally take with your glass.

Agree HAL. Being a macho man, and shotgunning my bongs to produce impressive vid milk shots for my friends, could have produced some irritation along with my zeal. I'll be more cognizant of the size of my hits, breathing technique, and variances between different vapes when I resume bonging.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

Ya know there is one major difference I have noticed between the EQV and the DBV.... the inner diameter of the hose on the whip... the hose provided with the Extremes makes for much tighter draw than you will experience with a larger hose that comes with a DBV.
On the Extreme I had I eventually went with the same size hose that comes with the DBV... increased the ease with which i was able to draw from it. So I can imagine a little amount of extra strain when using the Extreme with stock hose.

I also believe extremely large hits can be harmful to tiny degree. As vapor cools it looses size, which can potentially put strain on your lungs by introducing a small vacuum effect as the vapor cools in your lungs.
Not saying it is happening to a heavy degree. But you ever see video of a can being filled with steam and you cause it to cool rapidly? It causes the can to implode because of the massive vacuum it creates as the steam condenses back into water. I think something like that occurs at a very slight level when holding in an extremely large hit of vapor, and causes strain on the lungs. However only a scientific study will be able to prove that... so until then its only speculation on my part.

 

[Pappy]

Thanks Devo! I do use 7th Floor hose on my EQV so that isn't it. I agree with you (and HAL) about the impacts of larger hits which can be deceiving with a bong. The cool smooth vapor, and carb effect of the bong, produce bigger, milder hits.

But dats wud me like about da bong!

 

[fidget]

Thanks Devo! I do use 7th Floor hose on my EQV so that isn't it. I agree with you (and HAL) about the impacts of larger hits which can be deceiving with a bong. The cool smooth vapor, and carb effect of the bong, produce bigger, milder hits.

But dats wud me like about da bong!

Try going back to cold water for a bit.
I tried the steam a couple of times but wasn't keen.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

@Pappy,

From your description, and factoring in posts of yours as I read through the Q, Welby, and other threads, I think you and I may be in a somewhat similar situation.

I'm in my early 60's (don't you just hate how that old cliche about time moving faster as you get older, turns out to be true? - a cliche, but still true). I've been a fan of the herb since the 60's, but circumstances only permitted me to begin regular consumption about 15 yrs ago. (I never smoked tobacco.) I switched to vaporizing with the Q a few months back, and ironically enough given that my motivation was a higher quality experience along with greater health awareness, only then did I encounter respiratory issues not dissimilar to your description. Furthermore, like you I've traced this to my breathing technique, as well as other factors I hadn't been fully aware of but am now compelled to address.

I don't want to presume that you would be interested in the details of what I discovered and how, so I won't volunteer all of that here just now. Or maybe just the bottom line would be useful (although without the why of it, probably less so)? Anyway, if you think that my experience might be of some value, let me know. I can post it back here, pm or email it to you, whatever. Or not, up to you.

 

[Pappy]

@Pappy,

From your description, and factoring in posts of yours as I read through the Q, Welby, and other threads, I think you and I may be in a somewhat similar situation.

I'm in my early 60's (don't you just hate how that old cliche about time moving faster as you get older, turns out to be true? - a cliche, but still true). I've been a fan of the herb since the 60's, but circumstances only permitted me to begin regular consumption about 15 yrs ago. (I never smoked tobacco.) I switched to vaporizing with the Q a few months back, and ironically enough given that my motivation was a higher quality experience along with greater health awareness, only then did I encounter respiratory issues not dissimilar to your description. Furthermore, like you I've traced this to my breathing technique, as well as other factors I hadn't been fully aware of but am now compelled to address.

I don't want to presume that you would be interested in the details of what I discovered and how, so I won't volunteer all of that here just now. Or maybe just the bottom line would be useful (although without the why of it, probably less so)? Anyway, if you think that my experience might be of some value, let me know. I can post it back here, pm or email it to you, whatever. Or not, up to you.

By all means, goodie, please share your experience and any insights you've gleaned. FC is populated by numerous health related threads, by others aside from myself, and I know your input will be appreciated by all.

 

[rabican]

Since i moved to a bubbler from the ehle bong i noticed i take slightly smaller hits, that aren't as direct (i hardely ever pull out the adapter to clear it quickly like I would with a bong). Since changing to a bub i havent been coughing as often as i would and my throat feels less irritated during vaping.

pappy on a side note, you should take some photos of all your glass lined up

 

[Pappy]

Since i moved to a bubbler from the ehle bong i noticed i take slightly smaller hits, that aren't as direct (i hardely ever pull out the adapter to clear it quickly like I would with a bong). Since changing to a bub i havent been coughing as often as i would and my throat feels less irritated during vaping.

pappy on a side note, you should take some photos of all your glass lined up

Will definitely be more cognizant of my breathing technique and various extraneous factors like bub vs. bong. Thanks, rab, will def do family shot when I reunite with my glass on 4-20.

 

[VWFringe]

i remember reading that bongs are bad just because of the carburation effect and how it treats our lung tissues

a lot more pressures exerted

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Message deleted.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

By all means, goodie, please share your experience and any insights you've gleaned. FC is populated by numerous health related threads, by others aside from myself, and I know your input will be appreciated by all.

OK. Although I dunno about the insights and appreciation . . .

Initially my Q vaping was great. Being new to this, I just used the standard bag and then whip methods. Although the hits were cleaner and smoother than combusting, I actually experienced a bit more irritation apparently because I was taking more hits - I've always had over-sensitive bronchial tubes (but never asthma or COPD). So I put together a bong for water filtration and cooling. To my surprise, that resulted in significant chest discomfort.

So I tried different pieces of glass. For sure, as others have commented, the delivery system can made a noticeable difference. Expanding the airflow with larger tubing, changing the bowl, better diffusion, using the Q's fan assist - all of this helped, but the pronounced discomfort in my chest persisted.

To try to isolate the problem, I set up a series of controlled tests. In each session, at least 2-3 days apart, I used just 1 technique. I experimented with different routes of inhalation, directing the vapor to just one part of or all of my respiratory system, using one set or all my respiratory muscles, varying temperature, etc. And I did each on a pulling range from totally relaxed whip inhalation (using the fan), then my bubbler, then my bongs. With practice I could isolate cause & effect.

Long story short, I eventually realized that in my particular situation at least, my focus on technique was misplaced. Although I could ameliorate the discomfort with changes in method, I discovered that my fundamental problem was specifically weakness in my upper breathing muscles (the rib cage intercostals). While not exactly a revelation, the key point for me was that I needed to focus on strengthening my body's own system rather than being more clever with my vaping system and how I was using it.

A second discovery was that I could actually feel the difference between the muscle strain and the resultant bronchial/lung irritation. Obviously they're related, but still distinct. The explanation may be straightforward, e.g., greater muscular exertion delivers more vapor more deeply than my lungs can comfortably process, or more heat than I can tolerate. Or it may be more complicated. Slow, deep but relaxed inhalation does not produce the same discomfort, so clearly something else is happening, too. Strengthening my muscles may naturally eliminate the other irritation. Or it may not. I'll only know for sure when I get there.

Bottom line, I had several takeaways. The first was, again, that I needed to redirect my attention to a physiological issue over just making the delivery system more tolerable. The second was that I was experiencing 2 sources of discomfort, with the exactly relationship between them still not understood. The third was, had I not taken the route of a disciplined self-analysis, I may have missed all this - including realities about my age and past decades (omitted from the above); understanding this has been more than helpful, it was necessary.

So for now I'm working on the muscle strengthening. In the meantime, I'll limit myself to vaping only in a manner that does not tax my body's system. The patience this will require is no small feat, but for me, there's no way around that.

Just my Well, OK, plus a bit more.

 

[Pappy]

@ oldiebutgoodie > Responding to your perceptive post, since deleted. Found your anatomical and physiological scenarios quite plausible. We can all benefit from strengthening our anatomy. Although I'm not sure my physical condition bears as directly on my situation as the palate injuries sustained from coughing spasms produced by oversized bong hits. That leads to the sinus infections I believe are at the root of my problem. Your post has enabled me to better isolate and describe what I consider the genesis of my discomfort. It gave me a different way of analyzing the situation. Thanks!

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

@ oldiebutgoodie > Responding to your perceptive post, since deleted. Found your anatomical and physiological scenarios quite plausible. We can all benefit from strengthening our anatomy. Although I'm not sure my physical condition bears as directly on my situation as the palate injuries sustained from coughing spasms produced by oversized bong hits. That leads to the sinus infections I believe are at the root of my problem. Your post has enabled me to better isolate and describe what I consider the genesis of my discomfort. It gave me a different way of analyzing the situation. Thanks!

Thank you, too. (I re-composed my reply to eliminate extraneous detail, and for more clarity.)

You did indeed perceive my primary message. What I learned was to focus on finding and addressing the underlying cause, rather than attempting to mitigate it. And to use a good process of discovery. I strongly doubted there would be specific physiological applicability. I know that sinus infections can be a serious business (nearly killed my wife's mother), so very best of luck to you in your journey.