Big hits and small doses?

[youdontknowme]

First off I'd like to say that this is a great forum, pretty much every post has more useful info for me. Been lurking for a few months, I'm glad to finally be a part of the action. Thanks!

I've been a happy owner of a VaporBros handsfree/ceramic vape for a while now, but I just got back from my cleaning broken bits of glass up off the floor of my bathroom after breaking the whip glass piece. However, I've been ready for an upgrade for a while now, so perhaps now is the time to finally decide.

If I end up replacing the VB, I'm looking for a vaporizer that can deliver huge, bong-like hits. I love vaporizing, but there's something about those massive hits I miss when I use vapes. Although achieving large hits on the VB is definitely possible, many times hits are mostly air and contain only small amounts of vapor, especially the first one or two and the last few with each bowl pack. Also, it takes several minutes to vaporize an entire bowl pack, so packing small amounts of herb results in several lackluster hits instead of the one nice dose I was looking for.

So my thinking now is to either get the new VRIPtech Heat Wand and use it with a pipe, or get an Aromed.

Here are my questions:
On these vapes (or any other recommendations), can you pack a small amount and vape the entire bowl in one (or two) draw (good for small doses)? If you put more in, will it still "clear" in one draw (good for big hits)? I realize the Aromed probably won't vape its entire bowl in one draw, which is why I'm leaning toward the VHW. I just think the Aromed looks amazing. I'm sure I could get those big hits by packing a lot of herbs, but that's not always ideal for short sessions, unless its fairly consistent and the herbs don't go stale between sessions so I could save it.

Does the VHW work ideally with percolated pipes?

Note: I dislike bag vapes in general, having tried the Volcano and the Herbalaire several times.

Let me know if I need to clarify anything.

Please advise, and thanks in advance!

(If this is the wrong forum let me know or just move it, thanks)

 

[eLiguL]

Small doses with big hits?

Sounds like you are describing a Purple Days vape.

 

[Beezleb]

For bong hits I would consider a wand vape like the vrip or herborizer.

 

[SpiralArchitect]

I might recommend just upgrading to a SSV/DBV, or maybe even a Vaporfection ( both are similiar glass wand vaporizers ) and finding yourself a nice waterpipe and tubing attachment. Alternatively, if you just want to save a few bucks and your VaporBrothers is still functioning, just purchasing a new glass wand will put you back in business and save you some money, but you did say you are looking to upgrade....

Other than that, the VRIP VHW is probably going to be a good investment. It's a rather new product, I believe stonemonkey55 is the only one here that currently has one.

I'd would recommend the Purple-Days but I am hesitant about your desire for extremely large hits. It may be a let down. The PD delivers good sized hits, but compared to most glass wand units, it pales in comparison in making those big clouds. Then again, that isn't what it is designed for.

 

[vaporcloud]

I agree with Beezleb (edit - and Spiral ... who got in before me) You do get nice hits from the PD but not bong-like ones and whip vapes are more akin to bonging where as the PD is more like a small one-hitter pipe or joint.

Its interesting how you describe the VB and how the first few hits are light. I use to get the same thing with my Vapor Daddy and I found letting the wand sit on the heating element for a while to heat up the glass and warm the product helped a lot. This would allow a first up hit that would put any bonger on their arse and several more tasty hits until the herb was spent.

The new generation whip vapes like the SSV, DBV, Extreme and others like the Vaporfection etc will all produce the big milky hits your after with possibly more consistancy than your VB and all can be hooked up to a bubbler.

But I really don't think big hits and efficiency go very well together. This is where the PD excels. Nice satisfying efficient hits.

 

[youdontknowme]

Exactly as I expected, this forum is amazing...

-- Regardless of what I do for my next vape purchase, if it wasn't a PD I would still leave the PD on my wish list as it has been already, for the personal use/stealth/efficiency/durability reasons that are well known. I recommended one to a friend who I will see over winter holiday, so I'll soon get to try it out first hand. I'm sure I'll love it. But from what I hear, most users don't experience massive hits. If this isn't true though I think my mind is made up.
-- Is the Vaporfection $400 good? In other words, better than a SSV @ $250? I really regret not getting a SSV instead of my shortsighted upgrade from my metal wire classic VB to my ceramic hands-free VB. I see it (the Vaporfection) has digital temperature control, is that on the air flowing over the herbs itself, like I think the Aromed does?

@vaporcloud -- yep. This is why when smoking up groups, I would divide the to-be-vaped herb into 2 piles, the first bowl around you'd hear comments like "oh, vapor tastes so good" and the second bowl would produce coughing and wonderment as .1 or .2g kicked their ass. But doing snaps out of waterpipes is generally how we roll around here, so vaping a bowl pack in a couple draws would seem the most analogous.
I guess I'm hesitant to get a whip/box vape because I think I would inevitably upgrade down the road... and if I were to go back to whip style, I'd probably just replace my whip, I mean, for $30 I don't think there's justification for springing for a SSV.

I wrote to Mark at VRIPtech and he said I can still get the discounted VHW, so that's great

Right now, I could get the Aromed for 380, or a VHW (100) + VCB (50) + Per(x) (170) + accessories (80) = 400. Or roll with the VRIPtech's own water tool for less, but maybe not have as great of a pipe to use then. Or look for Herborizers... Can that element be used with your own glass?

I'd be interested in seeing what people who have used the VHW or Herborizer have to say about hit thickness & how consistently you get them? Do you draw on the Herborizer or let the chamber fill? Can anyone who as owned both a heat gun/heat wand style like the vhw or herbo and a SSV/DBV/Vaporfection give a comparison?

I can't wait to be back in business, as one of my friends said earlier today, "Wait to replace your vape? That's like saying you are going to wait to replace your hot water heater!" Keep the comments coming, folks, I love it!

 

[Beezleb]

The herborizer won an award at Cannabis Cup this year. I only read the headline though so I dont know much about if you check out high times magazine website http://hightimes.com/entertainment/ht_admin/4851

I dont know anything else about it really.

The vrip looks really good and the special is nice and thats really I know on the vrip.

I would think they are similar in performance. For me due to ease of use I would side more towards the herborizer as I would find wielding that heat gun a pain but I enjoy my DB which fits my style perfectly.

 

[vaporcloud]

The VHW is a steal at the price and something I'd love to have in my collection! I'm sure your bonger mates would be lights out with a VHW the VRIPtech bowls, water accessories etc. Stonemonkey55 has the VRIP gear and an SSV and he loves the VHW.

 

[marcuss]

YDKM.... in my opinion you should go with the Herbo "Tube"
Take a look to the Herbo tube thread in this forum and also Beezleb is right...The herbo won the Cup this year!
I,ve got a DBV and if it delivers huge clouds can never beat the Herbo's smothness and taste... next week a SSV should be here so i can compare my Herbos with that too!
Sebastien sent me these clips from the Cannabis Cup... enjoy it!

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=MaGN5sAyrcA

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=E6d-S1ZcT8M

 

[stonemonkey55]

YDKM, welcome to the forum, I have some experience with the units that you have mentioned, the VRIP (VHW and heat gun set up), SSV, Herbo (although my Herbo does not have the variable heat control), and I think the last one mentioned here was the PD.

I'll try and answer your questions in some sort of logical progression...

Vaporfection, is it worth double the price of the SSV? It undoubtedly performs better than the SSV but the performance isn't twice as good. You get incremental performance with the price and the two areas that are improved over the SSV is the way it holds it's temp (I've read in more than a few posts now where people complain that the heating element on their SSV dims more than the one on the DBV, this has been my experience as well) and while the SSV heating element is encapsulated in ceramic, the Vaporfections is encapsulated in glass. Nothing against ceramic as it is one of the most commonly used heating elements, but the glass encapsulation is a nice bonus. I have noticed that the Vaporfection creates bigger clouds of vapor than the SSV but surprisingly, the color of the AVB is pretty much the same. I had always thought thickness of vapor had to do with temperature, but for some reason, this unit seems to produce thicker vapor with relatively the same temperature (I am going off of the color of the AVB since the SSV does not have a digital readout for temp).

Based on your requirements, I think the VRIP VHW + VCB + Per(x) is the best way to go, and the Herbo should suit your needs as well. I use the VRIP water tools myself as I think they are a really good size for vaping and have built in ice catchers, I also like that they look somewhat "scientific" with the beaker shape. You can get MONSTER hits with the VHW and although it is pretty much the universally, most liked vape in my collection, those that like to take bong-like hits, definitely gravitate towards it more than others. Mark told me that he will be coming out with a mini-007 kit which would be a travel version. The VHW will stay the same but you will get a slick Pelican brief case with foam cut outs for all the pieces and the water pipe with be a shorty version of their current model. In my 10+ years of vaping experience, the VHW is hands down my favorite vape, just one man's opinion here.

A few reasons I love the VHW so much is because the heating element looks about twice as thick as the one in the SSV (so holds temp very well), the glass is very thick (more thermal mass, stable temp), the sequential venturi effect from the vortex like structures around the heating element, and lastly, the ceramic heating element is 100% encapsulated in glass. I know that stainless steel and ceramic are both considered safe for vaporizing so I'm not trying to scare anyone away from units that have those materials, but there is just something about having all glass that produces a greater vaping experience for me along with increased peace of mind.

I know Marcuss was able to make some changes to his Herbo so that he could use it on any type of glass as well.

hope this helped!

 

[marcuss]

"I know Marcuss was able to make some changes to his Herbo so that he could use it on any type of glass as well."

no changes needed...... just put the Herbo Bowl and Heater on any 18.8 gg bong joint..... as i told in my former posts you can use it with any 18.8 glass bong.... this is very simple!

 

[freedum]

I own the vaporfection, and I can say that it does very well with big hits and small amounts (although not necessarily at the same time). I can load up a small pinch in hard times and get plenty baked off of something that would just burn up in a pipe or bong. On the other hand, I can load up a massive bowl and suck in like a hookah and expel tons of vapor like a bong hit. Is it worth $500? I don't know, I have tried the Herboizer, the vapordoc, and and a few other cheap vapes before, and I really love the stealth. My advice is to try a few out and see what you like.

 

[youdontknowme]

Great feedback everybody...

@marcuss - you say the dbv delivers huge coulds but the Herbo is smooth and tastes good... between the two which would deliver the fewer, more powerful condensed hits with less air? In otherwords, how many draws to finish a identical size pack of herbs? Or the Herbo, do you wait as the chamber fills, and then clear it? If you take draws, how sensitive is the Herbo to draw speed?
For an Herbo tube user: Can you use water with the tube? Do you? Can you put a bowl in the tube and smoke out of it?

@stonemonkey55 - I'm especially answered in your advice, since you have owned both the Herbo and the VHW... Same idea as with marcuss, between the two, which vape would vape a same-sized pack in the fewest draws? Which do you think is the least sensitive to draw speed?
Do you put water in the water tool? Have you ever smoked out of the water tool? I've seen you mention several places how you like the icecatcher on the VRIPtech water tool, is it better than icecatchers on other water pipes? Any I've used seem to work fine...

Prices:
Herbo no pipe: Air Chamber @ $34.50 + Injector @ $226.50 + Power Supply @ $46.50 = $307.50
Herbo w/ the Herbo tube: $298.50
So clearly it's not worth it to just get the element for the Herbo and use it with another pipe, it costs more! It's hard to tell because it seems there are discrepancies between the English and French versions of the website, but the tube XL is ~$450 and I can't find the heater parts with temperature control sold separately. $150 for what seems to be mostly temperature control doesn't seem worth it, I left my VB at the same setting pretty much every single time, PD doesn't even need it.

VHW no pipe: Wand @ $100 ($170 retail) + VCB @ $50 = $150
VHW with VRIPtech water tool Pro: $150 + $127 = $277

The price difference is not large for each complete kit, with the VHW however one could get the just the element and put money into some more advanced glass. Just have to make up my mind and order!

Sorry my posts are hard to answer, but thanks for the first hand reports, they're crucial!

1Love,
YDKM

 

[stonemonkey55]

The ice catcher in the VRIP water tool is no better (or worse) than the ones you will find from Roor, PHX, etc etc IMO it is one of the best compromises for size, looks, and usability but functionally, it is no different than any other waterpipe.

As far as which model produces thicker vapor with the least amount of hits...that is a tough one. While there are vaporizers that are more efficient than others, (Purple Days, but I believe it is more efficient due to the amount of material used and the size of the stem) there are still laws of physics that you need to abide by. I think the cake analogy will work best here. When you are combusting, you are able to clear a bowl in one pull based on the fact that you are burning the material that you are inhaling and do not care what the aftermath to the herb is. Whereas vaping is closer to baking a cake. If a cake takes 20 minutes at 350 degrees to bake so that it is soft and moist, you can't double the heat to 700 degrees and expect you can cut down the baking time to 10 minutes and still be soft and moist. So if you take that example and parallel it to vaping, it might give you a better understanding why there is no "one hitter quitter" vape on the market.

With that said, both the VHW and Herbo produce some of the milkiest vapor I have experienced. The Herbo uses stainless steel to encapsulate their heating element so it holds it's temperature very well. The VHW uses a combination of larger heating element and more glass (for increased thermal mass) to hold a steady temperature. I always prefer having a dial on my vape because there are certain strains that require a slightly higher/lower vaping temperature and you can also control the type of high you want with the temp. Higher temp, more CBDs and CBNs for couch lock type high, and lower temp for more cerebral, energetic high.

One thing to keep in mind, if you are in the US, easier to get replacement parts for the VHW. If you are Europe based, the same would be true for the Herborizer. The good news, both are top notch so you can't go wrong with either. You might want to read the hands free versus regular wand thread located here to see if you prefer hands free (Herbo) or regular (VHW) http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?id=238

 

[youdontknowme]

best compromises for size, looks, and usability but functionally, it is no different than any other waterpipe

Yeah, and it's not even too expensive either. Good to know.

I like the cake analogy, but from what I understand, the chemical processes surround phase transitions (eg. what we do when we vaporize) is definitely distinct from the culinary process of cooking. You can affect the rate at which a substance changes from one state to another in many ways, some of the more common ones are:
increase heat - turning up the stove, water boils quicker
decrease vapor pressure - put a fan blowing on a dish of alcohol, the already evaporated alcohol is no longer maintaining the established evaporative equilibrium, allowing more matter to evaporate immediately
lower the pressure of the surrounding atmosphere - things boil faster at altitude. actually, thinking about it, it seems this could be closely related to the VP but I don't have time to look it up right now, someone feel free to debunk me
increase surface area - enough said, the more area exposed, the quicker the vapors come, grinding herbs makes a difference, tea kettles have wide bottom

Now, it's important to understand that the THC in our medicine is transformed from plant matter into an inhalable form is neither evaporation nor boiling, but actually sublimation. I can't find much literature on factors effecting the rate of sublimation, esp. of THC, but it's not hard to imagine that such factors do exist. Needless to say, bowl shape and nominal air velocity over the plant material make a difference. Once I get a little more room to myself I may start conducting some of my own research, but that's a couple years down the road.

So, can one vaporizer vaporize faster than another? Absolutely. In one hit? I don't see why not. Bringing this little diatribe to a conclusion, about how many draws does a pack of the VHW provide? 2-3? 5-7? How does this compare to an Herborizer? Since no one is claiming that the Herborizer lets the chamber fill and then you clear it, I'm assuming this is not the case. It's too bad, really, as that almost seems like what I am looking for.

Having owned both a original VB and a handsfree (see OP) I am familiar with the conundrum, fortunately for me, I have room in my heart for both, all long as I'm getting where I need to be. The VHW doesn't seem any more inconvient than ripping a pipe, and having owned the HF VB model, I can say thats its not really handsfree in the since that I can do a whole lot while I'm vaping, if you need that you should eat your meds.

Does the VHW have temperature control? Have you found that you can't leave it in the bowl and have it stay (this wouldn't be surprising to me but hey, you never know). With my VB, although the high achieved is almost always clearer than a smoking high, I've had problems getting the very cerebral highs to 'stick' for more than an hour. Turn it up a little and yes you get a little less energetic but make more out of the same amount of herbs. Without getting into the extremely complex theory behind how terpenophenolic compounds effect your neverous system, I've read that the presence of certain cannabinoids can make you tired but do work to lengthen the duration of your expirience, something about how the chemicals break down once inside your body. I don't have a enough of a background in neuroscience to fully understand the processes and don't really have enough interest to teach myself, so feel free to disregard everything I've just said.

If neither regular Herbo nor VHW has temp control, both produce extremely similar vapor, and both maintain temperature equally well, then, yes, I guess the choice is more about where you live and what style you like. I always liked a clear winner though.

1Love

 

[stonemonkey55]

Hmmm sublimation is what it is called...you learn something new each day. Anyhow, the VRIP products have been designed to leverage the sequential venturi effect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

I believe this helps in THC extraction efficiency, although no studies have been done on this, but this is the reason the VCB is shaped the way it is, and if you notice in the pic of the VHW, there are 5 maries in their to get the air spinning as well. I think the rotating hot air, covers more surface area on the herb, thus better vaping efficiency. This is just my hypothesis though, I do not have any data other than the results of the hits of vapor I get from it.




It takes probably closer to 8-10 hits to clear a .25 g bowl in the VHW. It is tough to really say how many hits it would take you to clear the same bowl, just wanted to throw that out there. With that said, in the many advancements that vaporizers have had in the last few years, being able to extract the majority of THC in one or two hits is a target that is very far off. Trust me, one of the things I hate about vaping is the fact that it takes a few minutes before you are done but I think this riddle might not ever be solved due to the fact that your lungs absorb THC differently from smoke than from vapor. I beleive the majority of the THC is absorbed instantly when you inhale smoke, whereas the absorption rate is much slower with vapor. Thus you might lose alot of THC if you were able to get a one hitter, quitter vapor hit.

The Herbo, you need to fill it yourself, it doesn't fill up the tube on it's own. The only vapes that fill on their own would be fan assisted one like if you use a heat gun, volcano, or Extreme. Definitely not a drawback in my eyes, I like vapor on demand versus fan assisted hits myself.

The VHW does have a temp control on it. I agree with you, cerebral highs do not last as long, that seems to be the unfortunate trade off. Even if I had the variable temp on my Herbo, and even though exposed stainless steel is safe at vaping temp, I prefer the VRIP because it more closely mimics lighting a bong, the heating element is encapsulated in glass, and the VHW and the VCB both leverage the venturi effect,.