Any tips on how to make an unregulated Milaana/MVT heater?

Mribisback_

Mribisback_

Well-Known Member
Hello all. I'm going to try to make my own unregulated style vape. The ultimate goal would be to sell these eventually. My #1 selling point will be affordability. Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself.

I have all of the materials on the way for my prototype. I'm planning on using a mesh RDA as my heating element, but I'm also going to be developing my own heating element in case this vape supply ban really kicks in. I should still be able to get all of the other components.

I have a rough sketch of my design below for anyone that's curious.

My main question for you all is: are there any resources I could look at that could teach me how to design my own heating element from scratch, like what is on the Milaana/MVT?

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IMG 20210426 145605548 — Postimages

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KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
Trying to undercut the market is often not a good strategy. It's assuming other vendors are over-priced in the first place, but then you will soon realize that it is you who under-estimated the real costs, and especially the tons of hidden ones that it's tempting to omit. But everything that takes some of your time counts, down to the trip to the post office to send parcels and the time answering your support e-mails.

Having closely followed the development of the two vapes you mention, and knowing pretty well the amount of R&D then craftsmanship required to build and assemble them, I can assure you that their prices were fair and neither Ryan nor Dave became rich making them, there's not the slightest ounce of doubt about that.

I don't know how much more bare-bones than a Milaana you think you can get, but as simple as it looked, there were still a lot of steps and labor involved in making them. The MVT was much more refined and delicate in comparison, and also really under-rated.

The market is tough and if you want to sell volumes, you'll have to outsource to China, and even then you'll compete with much bigger fishes that have a real marketing work-force and a budget just for that. I think if you want your endeavour to be profitable, you should to the contrary consider making a premium hand-crafted product, and rather take the Nomad as a source of inspiration.

:2c:
 
Mribisback_

Mribisback_

Well-Known Member
Excuse my naivety, I really have no idea what I'm doing right now. All I know is that I really want to make something, whatever that ends up being.

I'm not planning on getting rich at all, maybe just make an honest living. I mainly just want to make something that everyone can afford, and if I can tell my boss to go fuck himself, I'll consider it a nice bonus.

I'm really considering just throwing a mod in a wood shell like the P80 now. Would people think of that as a knock off though?

I really appreciate your input, I'm just a dude that has loved vapes for a long time, and I just fell in love with woodworking.
 
Farid

Farid

Well-Known Member
If you want to be able to offer lower prices you need to reduce the time it takes to manufacture and assemble your product.

I would read up on the principle of "design for manufacture and assembly (DFMA)". Then consider the tools you have available, and what can be built with what you have. If your design requires new tools that will add to your initial costs significantly, but may be worth it in the long run, as increased efficiency adds up quick.

Right off the bat, your design looks more complicated than the RBT, so I would expect it will end up more expensive to manufacture.

For the time being I would forget about making a product for the market and just focus on making a working prototype that you enjoy using yourself. Then you can assess the time it took, and if you think it will be worth selling.

Good luck!
 
Shit Snacks

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Mribisback_ said:
Excuse my naivety, I really have no idea what I'm doing right now. All I know is that I really want to make something, whatever that ends up being.

I'm not planning on getting rich at all, maybe just make an honest living. I mainly just want to make something that everyone can afford, and if I can tell my boss to go fuck himself, I'll consider it a nice bonus.

I'm really considering just throwing a mod in a wood shell like the P80 now. Would people think of that as a knock off though?

I really appreciate your input, I'm just a dude that has loved vapes for a long time, and I just fell in love with woodworking.
Click to expand...

Yeah as others said, I don't think you should be focusing on selling at all, regardless of getting rich I don't think you're going to be able to make a living off of selling and making vapes at all... As Kero said, you can learn from RBT and MV to see that it is not going to be feasible at all... So yeah just focus on making one prototype for yourself, realistically I don't think there is any way you're going to make money off of this, sorry! Even just looking at your mock-up, like the button location, whatever you end up building, it is not going to be easy at all, not to discourage you, but yeah... Good luck!
 
oddjobold

oddjobold

Vape swap shop
I would base your vape on a mod. There you have a controller, a battery case, a display, buttons - half the job is done for you.

Next thing to figure out - do you use the 510 connector or somehow wire straight to the circuit board.

Then you need a heater. If you look at some of the great vapes out there a lot use steel mesh as a heater. (Splinter, Milaana, TM). Then you have those that use balls or glass rods in conjunction with a coil or heater rod. (P80, Terp torch, SV43, G43). This type of heater has a lot of momentum.

What has not been done is to combine the two. Steel mesh with glass balls or a glass rod? Might be interesting
 
KeroZen

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
I did not mean to discourage you by the way. I'm just saying that as @Farid pointed out, if you don't DFM with high volume in mind and outsource to Asia, there is no way you can sell them for cheap and make any profit at the same time. And competing on the low end will mean you will be against all native Chinese vape companies that have much more firepower than you in terms of workforce, equipment, distribution network and finances.

On the other hand, if you make a premium hand crafted product that looks good and performs well, you might sell a few in here to the connoisseurs and/or VAS sufferers amongst us... Making a living out of it could be possible, but I'm not going to lie, it will be far from trivial. But at least not losing any money in the process would be a good start! :)
 
Farid

Farid

Well-Known Member
The biggest hurdle you're going to face (besides maybe the initial investment) is likely to be burnout.

Assembling products can be mindless at times. If you're profiting enough it could be manageable, but if your price structure is such that you're slaving just to get by it will really wear you out quickly.

The best way to counter this is to really put passion into your craft - treat it like an art. But in order to do this well you'll really need to come up with an artistic and aesthetically beautiful design (which means higher cost, since you'll need to put time into it). Dan Morrison is a great example of this, but I imagine it can even be daunting for him at times, working with such a large waitlist.

The best thing you can do is to learn from others' experiences. Save yourself the pain of repeating mistakes that others have made. Read through the threads of now discontinued vapes like the RBTs, Lil Bud, etc.

And on an unrelated note, I would hesitate to invest in a design that uses box mods, RDA build decks, or any other parts that may be regulated soon with the impending E-cig restrictions.
 
Duba

Duba

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
In my opinion, if you have the wood and the tools, it can be a good idea. And of course, most importantly, the energy and time to craft!
Unregulated vape is a good option, it's a reliable and effective vape and besides, the market is open...the Milaana has been a good success, my Lil Bud is a tank, easy to use, easy to repair, a piece of art!
I don't know why the unregulated vape manufacturers went out of business as they seemed to be very successful.:hmm:
Maybe the biggest problem to resolve is the client? :lol:
 
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Farid

Farid

Well-Known Member
I think it's just a coincidence that those two unregulated vapes went out the same way. There are loads of other vape manufacturers that had similar fates. The reality is that running a business takes a very different skill set from designing and building a great product.

If your question is why there aren't more unregulated vapes on the market I think it's a matter of safety. Running an 18650 unregulated can be incredibly unsafe if the heater is worn out or damaged. The MFLB was able to do it because the NiMH batteries are much less dangerous than an 18650 when stressed.
 
Shit Snacks

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Farid said:
I think it's just a coincidence that those two unregulated vapes went out the same way. There are loads of other vape manufacturers that had similar fates. The reality is that running a business takes a very different skill set from designing and building a great product.

If your question is why there aren't more unregulated vapes on the market I think it's a matter of safety. Running an 18650 unregulated can be incredibly unsafe if the heater is worn out or damaged. The MFLB was able to do it because the NiMH batteries are much less dangerous than an 18650 when stressed.
Click to expand...

Well I would not say they went out the same way at all, if you're talking about LB and Mi... Even Mist went out a different way than both of those vapes... But yeah it does not have to do with them being unregulated, one guy bailed without notice or returning money, another upscaled and outsourced but could still not see sustainable profit to offset the hassles, and the other got killed by lack of demand before new e-cig laws and cross-country move... Sooooo I don't know lol
 
el sargantano

el sargantano

Well-Known Member
in order to get into the very middl eof the Mi fanboys bullseye (I am a proud owner of a Mi 1.5 anyway)...
everyone knows there are no more battles about nowadays...
sadly :-( those good convection wartimez...
-
Taking it as the most vapemakers did, @Alan is the guru everyone has to chase,
He's got tons of logs vapebuilders to enlight, and we, the rest of us-who-are-just-intoxicated-people-who-likes-to-chill-while-laughing-hard-in-the-living-room
we all have to thank on HIS TEK
PS: sorry I'm too drunk today, I'll try not to post too much drunnk as today, I don't do that normally, but this is a pretty serious post and I'm not a preatty serious guy. Lil bud is cooler than rbt and you know it...
PS2: You know I love you all. In the case I deserve some punishment, I can handle it, no offense intended
PS3: aaay, amigos... I miss those convection wartimes between rbt & vapfan boys, don't you... @P.A.M. I miss you so hard mon ami!
 
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Mribisback_

Mribisback_

Well-Known Member
Going a completely different way with....whatever this is. Just making something for myself at this point.

I'm going to build some sort of square body and attach it to the side of the mod. All wires will be hidden. Also making a wood accent piece to cover up the ugly/ non functioning 510 connection on the mod.

 
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