18650 Battery Safety

purepotstill

Well-Known Member
The shop don't sell VTC5A but VTC6

I bought them from vapoclope.fr and they send they would send me a return label and exchange them for any of their battery.

I know. I bought them because of all the good reviews of happy users like you but I got bad ones for sure. Thankfully Vapoclope CS seems on point.

I usually go with nkon.nl from the netherlands, the only real battery seller I found in EU and not an e-cig one but they didn't have no molicell in stock when I "needed" to order.
If I want to take a chance with the Vapprocell, should I go with the 3500mAh and 17A CDR or the 3000mAh and 20A CDR ?

And do you notice less batterie life from your P26A compared to your LGHG2 or VTC6 ?
Same store for me, I have contacted them and they'll just send me 4 new batteries (Procell) tested in France and able to deliver the 20A needed.

FWIW, I've just received 4 Molicel P26A from nkon.nl, so they have some in stock.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I really am stuck on which charger to buy. There are good reasons to get or not get all of them. Short of spending more than I need to I am about at ennie meenie minee mo on the UMS4, VC4L, VC4S and Efest LUC V4.

I have been happily using a Nitecore D4 for some time so my needs are not great. I have even considered just buying the same thing again but newer tech is... newer. ;)
 
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RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
Posting this here, as I doubt there is much interest.

A public service announcement.

The newest type of fire extinguisher for lithium-ion battery fires, the AVD type has been available in the U.K. for some time now. Finally available in the USA. I just bought two of the smallest 500ml size, designed specifically for small devices, like laptops, cell phones, and BATTERY CHARGERS.

This US company has just started selling them.

 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I would like to have one of these if they aren't too expensive. I wasn't able to find any pricing on their page.

I have many devices besides vapes that use Li-ion batteries.
 
cybrguy,

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
I would like to have one of these if they aren't too expensive. I wasn't able to find any pricing on their page.

I have many devices besides vapes that use Li-ion batteries.

As of now, you have to call them to order. Not cheap, $60, and because of DOT & Hazmat, shipping was $18. So two cost me a total of $156.00.
Still a lot cheaper then a burned down house or loss of life. My old friend just lost his entire house, FD said the cause was a surge protector.... :(
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
I unfortunately get some 17A. Definitely not as good as my P26A for use in P80. Should be the same with TM...

Oh that sucks, yeah the whole point of the Mollicell, is getting above 20 amps for that consistent performance throughout a charge (I think) Hope they make it right!
 

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
Posting this here, as I doubt there is much interest.

A public service announcement.

The newest type of fire extinguisher for lithium-ion battery fires, the AVD type has been available in the U.K. for some time now. Finally available in the USA. I just bought two of the smallest 500ml size, designed specifically for small devices, like laptops, cell phones, and BATTERY CHARGERS.

This US company has just started selling them.


Time to cook some lithium’s...... the safe way......

12A9B433-39BC-4619-8A66-56B3A8320B94.jpeg
 
Like the original poster, I'm a bit baffled by all the battery terms and not sure which batteries are the best to use with my vaporizer (Xmax Ace). From what I've read, 18650 batteries aren't intended to be used individually at all but seem to be the standard battery with portable vaporizers.

My Ace was a box unit and came with a Samsung 26 JM battery included (2600 mAh with a 5.2 continuous discharge rating which seems low) but I've seen many websites sell the Ace without any battery included. I have no idea how much power the Ace uses but it tends to get hot over time and so does the battery. :(

Would it better to use the Samsung 25 R which is 2500 mAh? Its discharge rate is much higher at 20A and comes either as a flat top or a button top battery which supposedly protects it from overheating. Another interesting battery is the Sony/Murata 2600 mAh which comes in two versions: one with a continuous discharge rating of 20A and the other at 25A. Do higher discharge ratings automatically mean a safer battery? Can 2800 mAh or higher batteries be safely used with portable vaporizers or is better to stick with 2600 mAh as the upper range?

The Ace really heats up over time; especially when I take long sips or hit it hard and so does the battery (it seemed a bit too hot when I touched it the other day and I try to remove it between sessions). My main concern is battery safety and keeping the battery cool. Do higher discharge ratings mean that the battery can handle heat and quick bursts of energy better? I really have no idea how much power the Ace uses when taking a hit and don't know enough about battery chemistry to decide which battery types are the best for this unit. :hmm:

I only charge the battery using the micro usb cable connected to the computer and the battery doesn't get hot but it takes over 2 hours to fully charge it. That's not a deal breaker for me and seems safer than using some plug in wall chargers but I might need to have a few more batteries on hand. :D

I'd appreciate any advice on batteries and safety that more knowledgeable members might have. :)
 
fifty_shades_of_green,

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Like the original poster, I'm a bit baffled by all the battery terms and not sure which batteries are the best to use with my vaporizer (Xmax Ace). From what I've read, 18650 batteries aren't intended to be used individually at all but seem to be the standard battery with portable vaporizers.

My Ace was a box unit and came with a Samsung 26 JM battery included (2600 mAh with a 5.2 continuous discharge rating which seems low) but I've seen many websites sell the Ace without any battery included. I have no idea how much power the Ace uses but it tends to get hot over time and so does the battery. :(

Would it better to use the Samsung 25 R which is 2500 mAh? Its discharge rate is much higher at 20A and comes either as a flat top or a button top battery which supposedly protects it from overheating. Another interesting battery is the Sony/Murata 2600 mAh which comes in two versions: one with a continuous discharge rating of 20A and the other at 25A. Do higher discharge ratings automatically mean a safer battery? Can 2800 mAh or higher batteries be safely used with portable vaporizers or is better to stick with 2600 mAh as the upper range?

The Ace really heats up over time; especially when I take long sips or hit it hard and so does the battery (it seemed a bit too hot when I touched it the other day and I try to remove it between sessions). My main concern is battery safety and keeping the battery cool. Do higher discharge ratings mean that the battery can handle heat and quick bursts of energy better? I really have no idea how much power the Ace uses when taking a hit and don't know enough about battery chemistry to decide which battery types are the best for this unit. :hmm:

I only charge the battery using the micro usb cable connected to the computer and the battery doesn't get hot but it takes over 2 hours to fully charge it. That's not a deal breaker for me and seems safer than using some plug in wall chargers but I might need to have a few more batteries on hand. :D

I'd appreciate any advice on batteries and safety that more knowledgeable members might have. :)

Hello welcome to FC! Hope you stick around, just to answer the basic question quickly for you, yes the Samsung 25R is a great all-around battery and will work fine I think in your X-Max! Having extra amps is no problem, there are some vapes however that require a lot of amps so you just never want to have too little is all... :tup:
 
Hello welcome to FC! Hope you stick around, just to answer the basic question quickly for you, yes the Samsung 25R is a great all-around battery and will work fine I think in your X-Max! Having extra amps is no problem, there are some vapes however that require a lot of amps so you just never want to have too little is all... :tup:
Thanks for your feedback! :) Do higher discharging rates simply mean that the battery can handle more "stress" or short power bursts? If that's true, it seems like one should go for as high CDRs as possible but I also remember reading on some website that high power MODs for vaping juice (80-120 watts) which I know absolutely nothing about, should be paired with lower capacity batteries (under 2000 mAh). That seems illogical to me because I would assume that the higher the wattage, the more capacity would be needed...

At the same time, I've read that there are a lot of counterfeit batteries out there and many of them have been rewrapped by unscrupulous vendors. I'm becoming a bit OCD about battery safety and am worried that the Samsung 26 JM that came with my Ace is counterfeit.


Section B (Manufacture Date code or serial number) of the above article describes how to check if you have a genuine battery or a counterfeit one and appears that the one my Ace came with is fake--the date code on mine is TJX5 which according to the article is impossible as the code number is completely wrong.

Has anyone else encountered fake 18650 batteries? If the above information on how to identify fakes is correct, it's really worrying that my Ace shipped with a counterfeit battery but maybe X-max unknowingly bought fake rewraps from another vendor? :hmm: At any rate, it seems that this problem is rampant with 18650 batteries and that all major manufacturers (LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony) have had their batteries counterfeited. :(
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Thanks for your feedback! :) Do higher discharging rates simply mean that the battery can handle more "stress" or short power bursts? If that's true, it seems like one should go for as high CDRs as possible but I also remember reading on some website that high power MODs for vaping juice (80-120 watts) which I know absolutely nothing about, should be paired with lower capacity batteries (under 2000 mAh). That seems illogical to me because I would assume that the higher the wattage, the more capacity would be needed...

At the same time, I've read that there are a lot of counterfeit batteries out there and many of them have been rewrapped by unscrupulous vendors. I'm becoming a bit OCD about battery safety and am worried that the Samsung 26 JM that came with my Ace is counterfeit.


Section B (Manufacture Date code or serial number) of the above article describes how to check if you have a genuine battery or a counterfeit one and appears that the one my Ace came with is fake--the date code on mine is TJX5 which according to the article is impossible as the code number is completely wrong.

Has anyone else encountered fake 18650 batteries? If the above information on how to identify fakes is correct, it's really worrying that my Ace shipped with a counterfeit battery but maybe X-max unknowingly bought fake rewraps from another vendor? :hmm: At any rate, it seems that this problem is rampant with 18650 batteries and that all major manufacturers (LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony) have had their batteries counterfeited. :(

Yes only buy from reputable sources: 18650batteries.com imrbatteries.com illumn.com liionwholesale.com

And yeah you want more amps, but 20 is plenty for your needs, mooch tests all this stuff on his blog, so I've learned from members who have read that extensively here!

Molicell P26A and P28A are fantastic option, they were actually designed for vaping, instead of flashlights!

Also Samsung 30Q LG HE4 or HG2 Sony Murata VTC6 or VTC5A are all good, more power than you need for the ace, but we all used them for the power hungry pure convection on demand vapes
 

badbee

Well-Known Member
high power MODs for vaping juice (80-120 watts) which I know absolutely nothing about, should be paired with lower capacity batteries (under 2000 mAh). That seems illogical to me because I would assume that the higher the wattage, the more capacity would be needed...

Note that max current limits measured in Amps and energy storage capacity measured in mAh are technically independent properties but in general between cell models as max amps goes up capacity goes down. They probably just meant don't go for max capacity (only) as that generally means a lower amperage cell. It would be nice to have a 20 A cell with > 4000 mAh capacity but we don't have the chemistry for that yet (at commercially exploitable costs).
 

Tweakz

Well-Known Member
Check “Mooch’s table”:

F56-B451-F-5-BAC-4-FE4-9-FE7-7-D33-A9621-EA8.jpg
 
Check “Mooch’s table”:

F56-B451-F-5-BAC-4-FE4-9-FE7-7-D33-A9621-EA8.jpg
Thx everyone! Some great information there but I'm still confused by all these different CDR ratings and Mooch's disclaimer: "using a battery at under its CDR does not mean it's safe." To my understanding, it seems like having a higher CDR rating would give one more of a "buffer" in case there's a sudden surge or pulse of energy but I guess Mooch just wants to emphasize that no battery is perfectly safe...

I checked the Ace's specifications in the user manual that came with it and it's written that the charging voltage/current is 5V/1A and that the working voltage is 3.3-4.2V but there's nothing written about the device's CDR or using batteries higher than 2600mAh. It's conduction so I guess it doesn't drain batteries as much as convection vapes do.

To my mind, it seems like using batteries with a CDR of 15 and above would be safer than the one I'm currently using (Samsung 26 JM with a 5.2 CDR) but please correct me if I'm wrong and if there's any reason I shouldn't use batteries that have a CDR of 25 or 30 and higher capacities over 2600mAh.

It's ridiculous that we have to worry about getting counterfeit batteries from vendors; I would hope that most double check the cell's authenticity before selling them to the end user... I think I'll have to use NKON which ships throughout the EU.

I came across some other websites that others might find useful:



Following the advice of the "how to identify a fake battery" links, I noticed that the fonts on my Samsung battery appear lighter and don't seem as even as the original ones in the photo below. Another tell-tale sign is the final code (TFW4) of the legitimate battery. The final digit, in this case 4, indicates that it was manufactured in the 4th week of the month of August designated by W, whereas mine was TJX5 and I don't recall a month that has five weeks. :hmm:


It really shouldn't have to be so hard to buy a battery without worrying about counterfeits and it definitely detracts from my sessions. The articles on how to identify fakes suggest using digital scales, measuring the size and diameter of the battery and even using a black light! Good grief! :doh: I might have to go for a desktop model or something like the Vapocane/Vaponic for peace of mind but I love the ability to set the exact temp and go up degree by degree with electronic vapes. :D
 
fifty_shades_of_green,

oldfool

Well-Known Member
"using a battery at under its CDR does not mean it's safe."
It is safer. He just making the point that these batteries have a lot of power and if things do go wrong, it can get ugly.

correct me if I'm wrong and if there's any reason I shouldn't use batteries that have a CDR of 25 or 30 and higher capacities over 2600mAh.
You are correct.
Using batteries with a higher discharge rating than needed is safer.
Higher capacities mean lower current capabilities.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Thx everyone! Some great information there but I'm still confused by all these different CDR ratings and Mooch's disclaimer: "using a battery at under its CDR does not mean it's safe." To my understanding, it seems like having a higher CDR rating would give one more of a "buffer" in case there's a sudden surge or pulse of energy but I guess Mooch just wants to emphasize that no battery is perfectly safe...

I checked the Ace's specifications in the user manual that came with it and it's written that the charging voltage/current is 5V/1A and that the working voltage is 3.3-4.2V but there's nothing written about the device's CDR or using batteries higher than 2600mAh. It's conduction so I guess it doesn't drain batteries as much as convection vapes do.

To my mind, it seems like using batteries with a CDR of 15 and above would be safer than the one I'm currently using (Samsung 26 JM with a 5.2 CDR) but please correct me if I'm wrong and if there's any reason I shouldn't use batteries that have a CDR of 25 or 30 and higher capacities over 2600mAh.

It's ridiculous that we have to worry about getting counterfeit batteries from vendors; I would hope that most double check the cell's authenticity before selling them to the end user... I think I'll have to use NKON which ships throughout the EU.

I came across some other websites that others might find useful:



Following the advice of the "how to identify a fake battery" links, I noticed that the fonts on my Samsung battery appear lighter and don't seem as even as the original ones in the photo below. Another tell-tale sign is the final code (TFW4) of the legitimate battery. The final digit, in this case 4, indicates that it was manufactured in the 4th week of the month of August designated by W, whereas mine was TJX5 and I don't recall a month that has five weeks. :hmm:


It really shouldn't have to be so hard to buy a battery without worrying about counterfeits and it definitely detracts from my sessions. The articles on how to identify fakes suggest using digital scales, measuring the size and diameter of the battery and even using a black light! Good grief! :doh: I might have to go for a desktop model or something like the Vapocane/Vaponic for peace of mind but I love the ability to set the exact temp and go up degree by degree with electronic vapes. :D

Oh sorry you did not say you were in the EU, there is specifically another thread about getting batteries in the EU I think, or there is a different thread for a different vape where someone posted links to battery places in the EU... Perhaps it was even in this thread? I don't remember them because I'm not in EU
 
It is safer. He just making the point that these batteries have a lot of power and if things do go wrong, it can get ugly.


You are correct.
Using batteries with a higher discharge rating than needed is safer.
Higher capacities mean lower current capabilities.
Thanks for confirming that for me. :nod: I once had a replacement battery in a mobile phone which really bulged and it completed freaked me out! It was so misshapen that the lid to my phone wouldn't close properly and I got rid of it promptly. The thought of a battery exploding in a portable vape is pretty scary! :rip:
Oh sorry you did not say you were in the EU, there is specifically another thread about getting batteries in the EU I think, or there is a different thread for a different vape where someone posted links to battery places in the EU... Perhaps it was even in this thread? I don't remember them because I'm not in EU
I'll have to look for that one. It really shouldn't be so hard to find reputable dealers that sell authentic batteries. Nkon has Molicel batteries which seem to be the only ones that were designed with vapes in mind but I really wonder if there so differerent from the ones from LG, Samsung, Sony and company. :hmm: Maybe they are less likely to be counterfeit than the others?

One last question about "button top" batteries. Are they really protected or safer because some vendors list them as unprotected?? Many vendors write that batteries have circuit protection but maybe that only applies if they are used in a battery pack...
 
fifty_shades_of_green,

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Thanks for confirming that for me. :nod: I once had a replacement battery in a mobile phone which really bulged and it completed freaked me out! It was so misshapen that the lid to my phone wouldn't close properly and I got rid of it promptly. The thought of a battery exploding in a portable vape is pretty scary! :rip:

I'll have to look for that one. It really shouldn't be so hard to find reputable dealers that sell authentic batteries. Nkon has Molicel batteries which seem to be the only ones that were designed with vapes in mind but I really wonder if there so differerent from the ones from LG, Samsung, Sony and company. :hmm: Maybe they are less likely to be counterfeit than the others?

Molicell are different because of who they sell to, there are also rewraps of batteries, particularly in other countries, again you have to buy from authorized resellers is all! @RustyOldNail do you remember the names of the EU shops?

And they are not that different from the Sony LG Samsung, all are good as I listed, but I am seeing better performance from Molicell, more consistent, and most all of my single cell powered vapes! Nikon sounds reliable

One last question about "button top" batteries. Are they really protected or safer because some vendors list them as unprotected?? Many vendors write that batteries have circuit protection but maybe that only applies if they are used in a battery pack...

Ignore that, none of these vapes use button top batteries, I get that your paranoid about unprotected, but it's just terminology, the protection is supposed to come from the vape, technically there is more risk in a unregulated vape but even so as long as you know what you're doing it's all fine!
 
Ignore that, none of these vapes use button top batteries, I get that your paranoid about unprotected, but it's just terminology, the protection is supposed to come from the vape, technically there is more risk in a unregulated vape but even so as long as you know what you're doing it's all fine!
Thx for clearing that up! I probably shouldn't ask this question because I might scare myself even more but have you heard about cases of cannabis vaporizers blowing up, or is this just limited to e-juice vapes and mech Mods? It seems like they pack more power and more things could go wrong... Having said that, herbal vaporizers are tiny ovens too and can get pretty hot. I have no idea how likely they are to short circuit and if that would cause the battery to explode or not. :suspicious:

Are the non removable batteries used in Pax and other portables different/safer than 18650 ones? It seems hard to believe that those vaporizers will perform as well after a few years of usage and I like the idea of being able to replace batteries. I also read somewhere that it's a good idea to replace 18650 batteries after a year or two of use to play it safe.
 
fifty_shades_of_green,

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Thx for clearing that up! I probably shouldn't ask this question because I might scare myself even more but have you heard about cases of cannabis vaporizers blowing up, or is this just limited to e-juice vapes and mech Mods? It seems like they pack more power and more things could go wrong... Having said that, herbal vaporizers are tiny ovens too and can get pretty hot. I have no idea how likely they are to short circuit and if that would cause the battery to explode or not. :suspicious:

Haha yeah I understand the paranoia, all these warnings are there for a reason! However I have never heard of that happening with any vaporizer, I remember the FW4 had a recall for some battery connection thing, but yeah especially not any vaporizer like the Ace, they really don't require as much power and are more protected! You should not be worried about short circuit, or the hot oven near the battery, this product is like the 11th model from this company, they are very experienced! Use a proper battery, it's not going to explode I assure you, just treat it well!

Are the non removable batteries used in Pax and other portables different/safer than 18650 ones? It seems hard to believe that those vaporizers will perform as well after a few years of usage and I like the idea of being able to replace batteries. I also read somewhere that it's a good idea to replace 18650 batteries after a year or two of use to play it safe.

Yeah those vapes are just a poor value, because you can't replace the battery yourself, it's all the same shit pretty much, Pax is one of the classic rip-offs of the vape industry lol I mean they have a long warranty and I think they would replace battery but maybe at a fee, the technology is super outdated though and weak anyway!

I have several 18650 batteries from several years ago, they all still work fine, you can see slight performance change, but I treat them all very well, so really no problems!
 
Haha yeah I understand the paranoia, all these warnings are there for a reason! However I have never heard of that happening with any vaporizer, I remember the FW4 had a recall for some battery connection thing, but yeah especially not any vaporizer like the Ace, they really don't require as much power and are more protected!
Thx for clearing that up--I really needed to hear that! :nod: It seems that buying name brand batteries from a reputable dealer and treating them with care (proper charging, not dropping them on the table and keeping them in battery cases) are the best ways to use them safely. :D

Speaking of charging, are chargers such as the Nitecore and Xtar better than charging by micro usb cable (which came with the Ace) to the computer in terms of battery longevity or are they just faster?

An 18650 in your pocket shorted by you keys could be a bad thing.
But in normal use, yeah these are pretty bulletproof if treated nicely.
OP sounds like he's getting it figured out.
Yeah, that's a good point! Those plastic battery cases are worth having. :D
 
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fifty_shades_of_green,
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