Discontinued 4Mi by Herbaltherm (Milaana NOT reborn!)

PossumMD

Well-Known Member
received a repy from Ryan recently

Wed, Feb 26, 1:12 PM (5 days ago)

Sorry for the late reply. Demand last year was extremely low for any of the products I released so I had to go shut down and move to where the job was. Now I am just building out the pre-order part time and am in the process of shutting down Herbaltherm.
Sorry, missed this before, the having moved is kinda concerning. I bailed when the thing with yoosh happened, but it still pains me cos there were gonna be spares at the end and I was happy to pay a premium to scoop one up and avoid all of this. History do be a circle sometimes...

I kinda see this as the crypto of the vape world. High risk, high reward. My 2ZM is still my go to when at home. I am willing to take the risk, but I am not happy with lack of communication.
I'd argue the nomad is more akin to that. They don't really appreciate much in value. I'd also argue it cos I paid god knows when and still haven't got mine and I need that hope ya feel?
 

stonedBBer

Well-Known Member
Weren't they meant to drop the same time, Halloween(ish) last year...? Pre-orders for the 4Mi definitely opened first, that much I do know.
You are correct

The plan was always 4MD first, 4MI after. 4MD is pretty far along, wood has been made, finish applied last time we saw. A few weeks off according to the last email.

I don't really think there is any excuse for the lack of decent communication. Just a 2 min message every other week, would put people at ease. Even if the message was "sorry no progress this time waiting on X". However I have not asked for a refund.

I kinda see this as the crypto of the vape world. High risk, high reward. My 2ZM is still my go to when at home. I am willing to take the risk, but I am not happy with lack of communication.

This is literally completely false.
It originally was 4mi and then shortly after or shortly before the 2zm.
Later to shore up funds to finish projects because Ryan's budgeting and business skills are pathetic he marketed the 4md
 

DgN'R

I'm No Superman!
Well.. as with wave-particle duality, it seems to depend on the observater :rofl:

From the HerbalTherm FAQ and Blog:







Herbaltherm was designed to be a Lean Start-Up company. Lean Start-Up is a cost effective way to test your business plan. With the vaporizer market in the valley of it's fall from grace, a quick market test was still in order.

Given the declining condition of the market over the past few years, no one in there right mind would decide to make an entry. However, I had been designing the last few years and still had the old machinery and tools so minimum effort was required to execute a lean start-up plan.

I also had a secret weapon, my friend and mentor Pakalolo2. An accomplished business man that thought like me, a healthy and flavorful way to consume has to blow up given the health techno conscience consumer. So we build a plan to sustain a business on the low volume of a niche industry... we called it Craft Batch Collectibles.

So, with the plan in place we started making Minimal Viable Products to test market with. A MVP is a "product" made using the least amount of elements, materials, steps... aka as low cost as possible and still deliver the core value. In our case, it was quality thermal liberators.

Started with the 3TM which received rave reviews but did not impress the Dynaverse. The second release was the 14DE or Daberb. Again folks loved the secure cap and hybrid vapor produced but interest remained low. So, we made a bigger one, the 19DX and suffered to same fate of minimal demand. For fun, the 8RD was released bring back 2017... again no sales but no worries.... they can be used for cooling mouthpieces for the 2ZM. Then the 5DT and 1MT were released along with the hot hole which makes them cordless. These devices cordless produce the best (1MT) and hardest hitting vapor on the market imo.... still no love. The 2ZM was a chore as the woodworker backed out of making them. Given that there was a strong demand at the pre-order the 2ZM was redesigned to use a 3D printed part to enable it to be fabricated using the tools I had on-hand. Unfortunately, only 30% of the folks that put down a deposit came to claim their 2ZM. Another bust. Given the issues with the 2ZM execution it was theorized that the addition of the 4MI and the 4MD could collectively make HerbalTherm sustainable, however this does not appear that it will provide long-term sustainability.

I do have to admit, I believe the plan was solid and making 11 designs in just over a year is an accomplishment that I am proud of. However, the numbers don't lie, the industry is cooked lol. No one is posting about vapes, the forum are down to a slow crawl of "experts" and the help me pick my new vape guys. viewer count is down from 50k to 500 most places and even the Puffco is gasping for air with it's new budget peak. We are now past the freak out sales and the industry seems to be a ghost town maybe foreshadowed by the Ghost? This I new, but thought some fresh offense in the midst of the defense would pan out. What I found out, is that RBT tech is ho hum as best, but there is always a silver lining.

The plan was to leverage existing designs from the past and spring board off of them to by the necessary machinery, tooling, etc. required to design fully custom vaporizers and there is already a design for an unregulated, variable heat intensity, battery indicator, ceramic housed redesigned heater, POD or not, integrated cooling, USB C charging, fuse protected design... so unfortunately we wont be getting there but, there is good news in it if we look at the data and take what the universe was so gracious to give.

There is strength enough in the 2ZM, 4MD and 4MI that they will be executed as "projects". This allows me to do what I love which is the design, proto, test, refine process as you can see by the 4 videos on the 4MD on the LubeTube. The great thing about lean start-up is the data is there to predict how many to make based on the pre-order signal. These projects are a high number of intricate steps so they most be done as a batch so you need to decide the "lifetime demand" and make them all in one batch step by step in order to gain any level of efficiency.

So rather than try and force the universe to give me more, I will graciously accept what has been given to me. QTY 50 - 2ZM 100 - 4MD and 200 - 4MI will be made to fullfill the pre-order demand with 25% extra to sell direct post launch. Once the pre-orders are complete the www will be shut down and the remaining units will be sold on Herbaltherm.freeforums.net. This should be around the first of the year. The price of the pre-orders have been adjusted to reflect that every unit will come with a repair kit and videos will be released to aide in repair. Guess I saw this coming and the DIY repair design philosophy will ease those worried about my going out of business. Additional repair kits will be available at this time. This will leave a home base for the 400 people who will own a device and the DIY repair should keep these devices going for decades as the RBT has proven the reliability of the tech and the Herbaltherm will make one last go as perfecting it.

Thanks again to all who came along for the ride with the godfather of the unregulated portable thermal liberator ;) I am proud of the work done in executing the plan that Pak and I put together and the joy is in the work, and not in the results as they are well out of my control. No lie, it is hard to lay it down after a decade of fukin with it, but I am excited to find my next role in mechanical engineering design!

Peace, Love and Happiness,

Ryan


:shrug:
 

chary-ka

There are other Worlds than these
Greetings all,

Sorry to disappoint you all, but I will not be making the 4MI as planned. Due to the lack of demand, Herbaltherm is now in bankruptcy.

Herbaltherm is now in receivership, which is a form of bankruptcy. Which means, if the business is sold, Herbaltherm lives on. If not, then Herbaltherm will go bankrupt. The shop, website, and bank account have all been closed and work to sell Herbaltherm are underway. Please help in spreading the word that Herbaltherm is on the auction block and anyone interested should email herbaltherm@gmailcom

If someone buys the company, they will fulfill your order. If Herbaltherm does not sell, I will be building 4MD (regulated desktop), 3TC (manual desktop) or 2ZMs as replacement for the 4MI ordered. Unfortunately, there are no refunds being provided, and this process will take 9 - 12 months as the initial 4MD orders will be completed first.

It was fun and challenging attempting to get Herbaltherm off the ground again in 2024 with the 1MT, 19DX, 5DT, 2ZM, 3TC and 4MD. Although there wasn't a sustainable demand, I enjoyed bringing more designs to life as your work is more important than the money. Appreciate all of you for your support over the years and although I am unhappy to leave, I am really excited about where I am going.

Thanks for your patience, I will be reaching out to confirm what unit you want, and your address via this email prior to shipment. Sometime at the end of this / early next year I will reach out again with either news that Herbaltherm has been purchased or that I will be making you a 3TC, 4MD or 2ZM.

Peace,
Ryan
Update from Ryan.
 

DgN'R

I'm No Superman!
Yeah, I received the same thing.. This is really sad news.. I think most customers ordered a 4Mi because they didn't want a 2ZM.. offering a 2ZM/4MD instead of a refund seems disturbing (especially for those who already have one).. 😔
 

stonedBBer

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I received the same thing.. This is really sad news.. I think most customers ordered a 4Mi because they didn't want a 2ZM.. offering a 2ZM/4MD instead of a refund seems disturbing (especially for those who already have one).. 😔
Hit him with a credit card charge back?!
 

chary-ka

There are other Worlds than these
Hit him with a credit card charge back?!View them?
I ordered back in August.

Yeah, I received the same thing.. This is really sad news.. I think most customers ordered a 4Mi because they didn't want a 2ZM.. offering a 2ZM/4MD instead of a refund seems disturbing (especially for those who already have one).. 😔
Agreed. I didn't want one of the others, and at this rate, 9-12 months, I have low hopes on seeing anything.
 

bramapoutre

Well-Known Member
That's really sad, I wanted my mi4 so much
But hey just by reading some of the comments here, I should have seen it coming (especially when buying a 3tc after that)


I'll put the beginning of the 3tc mail here, if someone is in the same case as me.
It's even more vague so I really don't have hope

Sorry for the delay with the 4MDs and 3TCs.

I ran into some part issues and didn't manage to get them together before I started a job.. Late last year, I shut down the shop, and moved South for work. Luckily a fellow vapsist has the parts and tools to finish them in his garage. Unfortunately he lives 2 hours away and I am working 60 hours weeks... and the parts with issues need to be remade, resourced. All said, the completion date is 3 - 6 months away and maybe 9? Good news is that I will eventually get these built and sent out. Bad news is...
 

Razhumikin

Well-Known Member
Remember this exchange? Pepperidge Farms remembers...
What does this even mean? Im not sure getting a milaana where the pick has to be totally unscrewed to get the battery in or out because he screwed the hole too close to the battery slot is "holding ro his standards" nor is the milaana i have with an obvious short in the path so it doesnt get hot enough and the button heats up from discharged electricity into it. These obvious errors would not have happened if he was intensely scrutinizing his production standards.

With all due respect, I have been on this ride before, and it seems like this is your first time, so let me tell you something: he relies on people like you just having faith in him to avoid accountability. If he didnt have this rogue-engineering genius in the desert-shtick that people bought into, and they took a sober assessment of all the times hes been less-than-honest with people and all the times he has failed to do something hes said he was gonna do, he wouldve been permanently out of the game a while ago. When its a year from now and you still dont have a 2zm and hes quit herbal therm again, dont say I didnt warn you.

I don't find your tone as respectful as you may have meant it. And I don't think, as a user of unregulated vape technology, there ought to be flaws in the final product. I agree with you there. I am familiar with the ride, as I said, having experienced it. I fell off the ride, and I'm back on, because this guy deserves a following. He deserves a certain amount of support from some of us who don't necessarily feel entitled to sorting his priorities for him. That is to say, I don't think the "ride" he's taking us on has anything to do with a swindle, which is why I'm gonna trust him to make me a vape, whatever it looks like, whenever I get it. I think you said you had the same instinct, until his communication style got in the way. And here's where I agree with you too. It's unorthodox because it loses customers. It's not something I'm trying to convince you otherwise. He's bombastic, torpedoing himself at every chance. It's tragic. It's human. It's stoner glory.

Its been almost exactly 1 year. Stoner glory indeed.
 

jbm

Well-Known Member
I’m so sorry for everyone affected by this. The man has made some great devices (Miilana 1-3, the Z, the Splinter) but there’s been a lot of drama along the way.
 

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
Bought a Splinter many years ago. One brief conversation with Ryan, and I knew his true character. After that, never, ever considered buying anything he was associated with. SHAMEFUL behavior….. :(
 

DgN'R

I'm No Superman!
Sorry, but I well did receive the 2ZM and as you also specified it's true that this thing kicks ass as it should..

The problem here is not the delay, as I think we all knew it would be delayed when we ordered from HerbalTherm (because you were supposed to know, given the many warnings.. and drama..), but rather the non-refund of a pre-order for a product that was finally cancelled.. on this point I think we agree, it's unacceptable (customers want a 4Mi or refund, not a 2ZM or 4MD... the consolation prize is not right)..
 
Last edited:

deaneaux

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but I well did receive the 2ZM and as you also specified it's true that this thing kicks ass as it should..

The problem here is not the delay, as I think we all knew it would be delayed when we ordered from HerbalTherm (because you were supposed to know, given the many warnings.. and drama..), but rather the non-refund of a pre-order for a product that was finally cancelled.. on this point I think we agree, it's unacceptable (customers want a 4Mi or refund, not a 2ZM or 4MD... the consolation prize is not right)..
Even though he's offering a product we did not pay money for, it is apparent that some folks were left off of the list for even that. POS behavior through and through.
 
deaneaux,
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pol9

Member
Mi dispiace, ma ho ricevuto il 2ZM e, come hai anche specificato, è vero che questa cosa spacca come dovrebbe.

Il problema qui non è il ritardo, perché credo che lo sapessimo tutti quando abbiamo ordinato da HerbalTherm (perché era presumibile che lo sapessimo, dati i numerosi avvertimenti... e il dramma...), ma piuttosto il mancato rimborso di un preordine per un prodotto che è stato infine annullato... su questo punto credo che siamo d'accordo, è inaccettabile (i clienti vogliono un 4Mi o un rimborso, non un 2ZM o un 4MD... il premio di consolazione non è giusto).
Salve, avrei voluto un 4mi ma mi accontenterò di un 2zm,semmai arriverà...com'è il 2zm? Mo puoi dare delle notizie?
 
pol9,
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DgN'R

I'm No Superman!
Salve, avrei voluto un 4mi ma mi accontenterò di un 2zm,semmai arriverà...com'è il 2zm? Mo puoi dare delle notizie?
You'll have to deal with it because unfortunately you have no choice: it's that, 4MD, 3TC or nothing.. If you don't like it, you can always try to resell it.

2ZM is a true real beast, you can find out more here:


 

ADULTSWIM

All Kids Outta The Pool!
im calling it.... In the coming months i don't see anyone picking up the mantle and buying the company. He has the building material in a corner, doubt he will let it all just fade away. The 4Mi's will show up in the market after the company finishes all sales proceedings and some of the stank has left the room.

everyone who paid for a pre-order right now:
surprised-pikachu-surprised.gif
 
ADULTSWIM,

DgN'R

I'm No Superman!
im calling it.... In the coming months i don't see anyone picking up the mantle and buying the company. He has the building material in a corner, doubt he will let it all just fade away. The 4Mi's will show up in the market after the company finishes all sales proceedings and some of the stank has left the room.
I wish I had your optimism, but it seems to me that we've never seen anything about the 4Mi (apart from 3D models). We've seen a lot of woodwork about the 2ZM and 4MD but nothing about the 4Mi, right? I don't think the 4Mi will see the light of day. It would be a huge turnaround at this stage.

at least, on this forum, you were all warned explicitly and exactly by @Yoosh few months ago, many got their money back when that was still possible.
thank you @Yoosh and thank you fc for letting him warn us
I think there is some confusion, personally I am delighted to have continued the adventure and to have obtained the 2ZM because it has become my favorite vape.. I use it every day and it works like a charm.. many people here had predicted the same thing for the 2ZM (and all this has contributed to the whole drama) and it was finally delivered late. I hope to have more information soon.
 
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