Phase3 Vaporizers

invertedisdead said:

That’s actually a good general best-practice for vapes; to dry the material out on the first hit and then milk the bulk of the vapor in a subsequent draw. That’s the style I would probably recommend to most folks as it’s an easy way to consistently enjoyable results.

For a more ambitious approach to the Shangri-La of instant milk, a lot of it is balancing the temperature of the device to the amount of airflow being drawn through it, and maybe more importantly the right amount of herb.

One of the most important elements of proper one-hitters is being able to actually finish the bowl in one hit. You’ll notice there’s much more room in the bowl for herb, but I’m only loading a relatively small amount. It’s very possible to milk great quality vapor nearly instantly, without scorching. However after the first inhalation and the material is fully dried, a clean up hit is an easy way to spoil the show. And don’t get me wrong, it won’t be anywhere near close to catching on fire, but it won’t be of much value either. This comes easier with more experience, knowing when to reload, but I find that following your taste buds makes it easy enough. It’s very easy with this vaporizer to taste when you’ve gone too far, easier than any other device I’ve ever used, which I believe largely comes down to materials purity. Airflow is important as well, with more airflow you can “ride the wave” differently than a device with less flow.

A quick way to faster milking is moving more fuel through the engine, in our case the fuel is hot air. Those who have been following this thread since the beginning when it was just a single air inlet hole might recognize the improvements in airflow. Earlier models milked deeply but not as quickly, due to more drag.

Also because the screen is adjustable, it’s possible to adjust for your average load size and temperature, while still being far enough away from the heat source to not have to worry about “broiling” the top. I’m using a fine grind in the video to help mitigate that as well. A coarse or hand torn consistency works fine and milks fat too, though the settings might be a little different. Fine grind is an easy way to get more vapor without raising temps.






It’s 19mm female on top, 14mm male on the bottom - With moderate load sizes it’s easier to prevent needing a stir. I have another idea to take it all the way, but I haven’t been able to test that feature yet.

@lazylathe @MikeRotchHertz greatly appreciate ya’ll following along! Patience of Saints!

Click to expand...

I love everything you're doing dude. I plan on waiting this out until the very end

invertedisdead said:

I've been thinking about this one for quite a while, very similar to my last, only the coil arm is inverted so that the coil sits on top of it. This design is based around a 16mm coil on the idea that it would be simpler/cheaper to build since the joint already comes formed on 16mm tubing. These inlet holes would also open up the draw restriction a bit which I think would improve the airflow.

Click to expand...

That’s not a bad idea!

That would probably save you a lot of time too, instead of fiddle-fucking with other stuff for a whole year!

Anyways.... been messing with my desktop again, cause it’s bothering me that this project isn’t finished, I need to wrap this up so I can feel good about moving on to my next venture; and the draw restriction is still more than I want it to be; it’s still the clear bottleneck in performance, so I’m gonna build a new one, and throw a ram air hood on this V8!

The new one will have +40% more airflow than my current daily driver. Which is +350% more flow than another popular ball vape This should put it closer to the SCVW in “milkability”

Really wanted to build InV1.7, and eliminate the screens entirely; but it just appears too cost prohibitive to build for the extra features that most don’t seem to care that much about anyways, unless I missed something. Especially with all the new ball vape entries to the market which frankly sell for less than 1.7 costs to build.

The new one will be 16MM for easier coil compatibility and manufacturability. The coil arm will be removed to do everything to keep the roundness as tight as possible for optimum coil fitment, and it will just be friction fitted. Just sticking to the basics here - great coil contact, optimized heater size for the power output, and healthy airflow distribution. I’m not sure if this even interests anybody at this point, but I will be ordering a small amount next week, the price would be around ~$70 for the quartz housing.

Something like this:

Honestly there's not a lot going on here, definitely pretty K.I.S.S. - it's really all about this 7 lane highway on top, which still takes CNC machining, so it's a little more complicated to build than it looks as it still requires hand working and programmed machining, so I had to simplify what I could while still keeping the essence alive.





Since there would still be one metal screen in the housing for holding the beads, the goal is to shift my attention to a proper all glass bowl instead, to try and make the vapor path full glass, even if the heat exchanger is only 99% metal free. I'm gonna look for a titanium screen for retaining the beads.

Probably throw in another trick up my sleeve for good measure to bring the whole thing together

invertedisdead said:

Something like this:

Honestly there's not a lot going on here, definitely pretty K.I.S.S. - it's really all about this 7 lane highway on top, which still takes CNC machining, so it's a little more complicated to build than it looks as it still requires hand working and programmed machining, so I had to simplify what I could while still keeping the essence alive.

Since there would still be one metal screen in the housing for holding the beads, the goal is to shift my attention to a proper all glass bowl instead, to try and make the vapor path full glass, even if the heat exchanger is only 99% metal free. I'm gonna look for a titanium screen for retaining the beads.

Probably throw in another trick up my sleeve for good measure to bring the whole thing together

Click to expand...

I can help you with machining if you ever need it or want to try a design out.

invertedisdead said:

Something like this:

Honestly there's not a lot going on here, definitely pretty K.I.S.S. - it's really all about this 7 lane highway on top, which still takes CNC machining, so it's a little more complicated to build than it looks as it still requires hand working and programmed machining, so I had to simplify what I could while still keeping the essence alive.

Since there would still be one metal screen in the housing for holding the beads, the goal is to shift my attention to a proper all glass bowl instead, to try and make the vapor path full glass, even if the heat exchanger is only 99% metal free. I'm gonna look for a titanium screen for retaining the beads.

Probably throw in another trick up my sleeve for good measure to bring the whole thing together

Click to expand...

Needs something to keep it in the coil as friction will be problematic?

iDRINKBLEACH said:

I can help you with machining if you ever need it or want to try a design out.

Click to expand...

Awesome,you two should rub heads.

invertedisdead said:

I’m not sure if this even interests anybody at this point.

Click to expand...

Just so there is definitely no confusion, this is me



Please please please please please

PLEASE!

iDRINKBLEACH said:

I can help you with machining if you ever need it or want to try a design out.

Click to expand...

That would be awesome! I definitely have some ideas that need milling,
Maybe we could make something happen after I get this batch of heater housings in!

arb said:

Needs something to keep it in the coil as friction will be problematic?

Click to expand...

I thought about a ring clamp - any feature added to the glass directly would distort the concentricity - I guess it’s not necessarily the end of the world, but with better coil contact the performance should theoretically be stronger. The beads help alleviate uneven heating to a degree though. Even my coil arm affects the roundness a bit from placing it on. I do like the coil arm a lot, but it is true there isn’t much to clean if you clear your draws. I don’t think I’ve ever cleaned any from the last prototype run. The ones that needed the most cleaning were the previous ones with the full length joint.

Cheebsy said:

Just so there is definitely no confusion, this is me

Please please please please please

PLEASE!

Click to expand...

I appreciate your interest! I’ll be ordering a handful of these today or tomorrow to get this show on the road. Im really excited for more air flow! I believe this design will take advantage of wasted surface area available for heating, that doesn’t see enough airflow. More “lanes on the road” to reduce traffic (drag) and more mixing opportunities for the air to follow different pathways through the bead maze.

invertedisdead said:

the goal is to shift my attention to a proper all glass bowl instead, to try and make the vapor path full glass, even if the heat exchanger is only 99% metal free.

Click to expand...

Even if I didn't buy your 1.x heater, I would absolutely purchase a proper all glass bowl. Goddamnit, I've tried like... four or five, and they all suck. I always want them to work, and I can't figure out how to make them work, so I end up sticking a screen in anyways. If you can figure out a way to make a proper all glass bowl, I'll take 6 (please make them in 14mm and 18mm female fittings, 3 of each if you don't mind).

@invertedisdead

I was close to take your design and make it in ceramiq. With a full covering of the titane like an half egg over it.
Like A small vapbong heater only, with PID, and rubies
It's just an inverted salt shaker in middle of a bowl...

But here, around me, i only have afraid uncompetent artisan, who only sell "ghost" moment...
or "artist"..

Every ones of your issues with qwartz would be easier with paper-clay.
Allow thinner, resistant, malleability..
but adding celulose (paper), add porosity (reduced conduction).
3% of paper is the norm but it could be lowered.

Porcelain seems the best neutral clay, higher retractation coeff (20%) which is good here, for minimalist pieces, but more expensive than sandstone.

An other way would be 3d printing AIN, "nitrure d'aluminium", the perfect ceramiq coumpound, ~150 W.m-1.K-1 ( boro=1W..., porcelain=2 , rubies=58..).
But we have none medical feedback, even if its oxydation is really low.

If a chinese hand can read me... or i will have to ask @Collyland / Daniel for a particular piece..
and with a cocoon/oven stand to go with it

I already see a "mother, the whore, Earth" cocoon stand, with inside a full yellow/orange ball ceramiq heater in.
My allegory, going deep in that whore,..
i'm not a dumb Bezos.

arb said:

Click to expand...

Long time lurker. I am looking forward to grabbing one of these whenever it is available. The thought that went into it so far has been so thorough it would be a crime not to support its further development!

Well the pro-flow quartz housings are ordered, so that should be a fun change of scenery! Throats been feeling a little tight, so the airflow gains should be extremely welcoming. I'm definitely expecting the zero-60 times to be quicker with more fuel available for heating the botanicals. Closer to an electric SCVW.

DRCousCous said:

Even if I didn't buy your 1.x heater, I would absolutely purchase a proper all glass bowl. Goddamnit, I've tried like... four or five, and they all suck. I always want them to work, and I can't figure out how to make them work, so I end up sticking a screen in anyways. If you can figure out a way to make a proper all glass bowl, I'll take 6 (please make them in 14mm and 18mm female fittings, 3 of each if you don't mind).

Click to expand...

Full glass bowl is in the pipeline, The real plan is eventually to be able to add conduction to the mix, for maximum vapability

This vapes taking a trip through a high speed chop shop. Like one of those 1200 horsepower twin turbocharged Lamborghini superleggera's. The stock vape was pretty fast, but it's time for a brute force tune up! And I'm ready to race

Shadooz said:

It's just an inverted salt shaker in middle of a bowl...

Click to expand...

Now that screams opulence! "This dish feels a bit peasantry... Could you pass the Ruby shaker?"

Shadooz said:

Every ones of your issues with qwartz would be easier with paper-clay.
Allow thinner, resistant, malleability..
but adding celulose (paper), add porosity (reduced conduction).
3% of paper is the norm but it could be lowered.

Porcelain seems the best neutral clay, higher retractation coeff (20%) which is good here, for minimalist pieces, but more expensive than sandstone.

An other way would be 3d printing AIN, "nitrure d'aluminium", the perfect ceramiq coumpound, ~150 W.m-1.K-1 ( boro=1W..., porcelain=2 , rubies=58..).
But we have none medical feedback, even if its oxydation is really low.

Click to expand...

I could replace the Quartz with aluminum and save a lot of headache too!

But yeah, I thought about 3D printing and/or using AIN. The 3D guy wants these picture perfect CAD drawings to quote me though, which isn't really my expertise, but I can slap together a decent rough draft. Thing is, to switch to an advanced material housing - then the beads don't really make much sense at that point. That's why I designed that AIN low mass heat sink some pages back.

Been playing with more low mass concepts, pretty interesting, milks up SO fast, but then it runs out of energy and need a quick regeneration. I actually think the Quartz housing is the bottleneck acting as an insulator; and not the low mass heat transfer material. That was the mechanics behind InVerzion 2, it was the Lance-Armstrong-On-Steroids version of what we all were trying to do do with the ball vape concept. But it still used a glass housing to mate to the bowl. It would be great to just make the entire heater from silicon carbide or something, but the abrasion from sliding in and out of the glass bowl is literally my only questionable concern for having not gone that route already. That was the main reason I considered using AIN as its softer and could be paired with a Quartz bowl @ a very similar MOHs

So yeah, replacing the Quartz would be great. But kinda tricky to do. Hard to switch housing materials and not want to build the whole heater from said material. But I actually would love to do that for durability reasons and simplification of the system. In the perfect world, it would be great to have a nearly bulletproof setup (trust me, I broke a bowl two nights ago )

kadjo said:

Long time lurker. I am looking forward to grabbing one of these whenever it is available. The thought that went into it so far has been so thorough it would be a crime not to support its further development!

Click to expand...

Greatly appreciate you following along thus far! The rides been a bit bumpier than expected, but that's what the long travel suspension is for I like to think I've put at least as much thought into what not to do, as what to!

kadjo said:

invertedisdead said:

Well the pro-flow quartz housings are ordered, so that should be a fun change of scenery! Throats been feeling a little tight, so the airflow gains should be extremely welcoming. I'm definitely expecting the zero-60 times to be quicker with more fuel available for heating the botanicals. Closer to an electric SCVW.



Full glass bowl is in the pipeline, The real plan is eventually to be able to add conduction to the mix, for maximum vapability

This vapes taking a trip through a high speed chop shop. Like one of those 1200 horsepower twin turbocharged Lamborghini superleggera's. The stock vape was pretty fast, but it's time for a brute force tune up! And I'm ready to race




Now that screams opulence! "This dish feels a bit peasantry... Could you pass the Ruby shaker?"





I could replace the Quartz with aluminum and save a lot of headache too!

But yeah, I thought about 3D printing and/or using AIN. The 3D guy wants these picture perfect CAD drawings to quote me though, which isn't really my expertise, but I can slap together a decent rough draft. Thing is, to switch to an advanced material housing - then the beads don't really make much sense at that point. That's why I designed that AIN low mass heat sink some pages back.

Been playing with more low mass concepts, pretty interesting, milks up SO fast, but then it runs out of energy and need a quick regeneration. I actually think the Quartz housing is the bottleneck acting as an insulator; and not the low mass heat transfer material. That was the mechanics behind InVerzion 2, it was the Lance-Armstrong-On-Steroids version of what we all were trying to do do with the ball vape concept. But it still used a glass housing to mate to the bowl. It would be great to just make the entire heater from silicon carbide or something, but the abrasion from sliding in and out of the glass bowl is literally my only questionable concern for having not gone that route already. That was the main reason I considered using AIN as its softer and could be paired with a Quartz bowl @ a very similar MOHs

So yeah, replacing the Quartz would be great. But kinda tricky to do. Hard to switch housing materials and not want to build the whole heater from said material. But I actually would love to do that for durability reasons and simplification of the system. In the perfect world, it would be great to have a nearly bulletproof setup (trust me, I broke a bowl two nights ago )




Greatly appreciate you following along thus far! The rides been a bit bumpier than expected, but that's what the long travel suspension is for I like to think I've put at least as much thought into what not to do, as what to!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dude, that's awesome news!
Any eta on delivery or they leave you hanging?

invertedisdead said:

Now that screams opulence! "This dish feels a bit peasantry... Could you pass the Ruby shaker?

Click to expand...

Paradoxal, as frugalist am i

But I've got two strains one with salty aftertaste (cookie kush) and one with blackpepper (my sativa).
So i will need two for the best seasoning

It was seriously the only way to make it understandable for my local artisans. Who make only plates, a lot of plates...
Women come to make their own, so they have something to throw on their husbands faces afterward..
the pleasure of contemporary religious (or not) wedding...

invertedisdead said:

That's why I designed that AIN low mass heat sink some pages back.

Been playing with more low mass concepts, pretty interesting, milks up SO fast, but then it runs out of energy and need a quick regeneration.

Click to expand...

That's why the AlN must mold all the titane, and be an "heavy" mass with that conduction.
The only way for next gen formula one.
With a simple honeycomb airflow or a pistol barell for more airflow.
But here airflow would be a con as the conduction is so fast. Higher airflow requirement only show the low efficiency of heater... which have to overheat
here the titane would work at way lower temp, and lower aiflow will avoid blast effect, and give the best tasting extraction.

My issue with AlN "printing", first it would look industrial, i've only seen plastic looking ones for now..
That business is still way too much nerds, ingenior style. There is stil a long way to beauty...

And there is different way to work it, and different machine. Here there is only one in Paris, which do aeronautics mostly. I have not tried to reach them for cost estimation.... i've not airbus budget..

I was trying first to do my ball with the cheap, simple porcelain-paper..
But i'm not in China...

arb said:

Dude, that's awesome news!
Any eta on delivery or they leave you hanging?

Click to expand...

According to the current timeline, I should have them in around ~2 weeks or so

It’s a pretty small run so most are probably accounted for, but if there is continued interest I’m happy to fulfill!

Shadooz said:

But I've got two strains one with salty aftertaste (cookie kush) and one with blackpepper (my sativa).
So i will need two for the best seasoning

Click to expand...

Now you just need one that tastes like good French butter

Shadooz said:

It was seriously the only way to make it understandable for my local artisans. Who make only plates, a lot of plates...
Women come to make their own, so they have something to throw on their husbands faces afterward..
the pleasure of contemporary religious (or not) wedding...

Click to expand...

it’s never a real party until some nice stuff is broken!

Shadooz said:

That's why the AlN must mold all the titane, and be an "heavy" mass with that conduction.
The only way for next gen formula one.
With a simple honeycomb airflow or a pistol barell for more airflow.
But here airflow would be a con as the conduction is so fast. Higher airflow requirement only show the low efficiency of heater... which have to overheat
here the titane would work at way lower temp, and lower aiflow will avoid blast effect, and give the best tasting extraction.

Click to expand...

I agree that too much airflow could possibly overpower that other low mass concept, though the watt density of the coil is pretty good - with high conductivity, potentially, it should keep up pretty well during a draw. That’s basically how Mighty/Crafty work (PID).

Shadooz said:

And there is different way to work it, and different machine. Here there is only one in Paris, which do aeronautics mostly. I have not tried to reach them for cost estimation.... i've not airbus budget..

Click to expand...

Yeah that is definitely the reality of some of these cool designs being cost prohibitive to produce due to the nature of the materials. I’ve got some other parts coming to experiment with which will help decide if that would be a worthy direction, but for now I’m sticking with what’s been working well.

invertedisdead said:

Now you just need one that tastes like good French butter

Click to expand...

My cookie kush already have that butter taste too, i guess it's what bring that name.
So she's already salty butter. (the brittany one is renown here.)
But with her old age she's became mostly only salty... ah ... girls...

invertedisdead said:

though the watt density of the coil is pretty good - with high conductivity, potentially, it should keep up pretty well during a draw.

Click to expand...

True but conductivity is base on perfect contact, so the spread between will still give latency.
Why it will keep even better if both side of titanium give their radiations.

That's why i wanted to try paperclay too, cause the thinness could let radiation reach the rubies (which still are required here).
Qwartz have conduction of 6 W/(m.K) which is better but its need of thickness for solidity may reduce the radiation effectivity.

An other of my idea would be to add "anal beads" in middle of the barrel, to add a lagged capacity expension. If the AlN drop too fast without recovery

invertedisdead said:

the reality of some of these cool designs being cost prohibitive to produce due to the nature of the materials.

Click to expand...

AlN is cheap, only manufacturing cost. And It's not a too complex piece.
Chinese sell basic shape one for dirt cheap..


Still the medical aspect of that ceramic which is unknown..
Weakness to corrosion, can't say how it would react to simple ISO

By looking about thermal conductivity, some months before, i fell on diamonds, with its 2200 W/(m.K) !!!

That's how i start dreaming...(simulate) about my ceramic ball, if i fulfill them with diamonds

invertedisdead said:

Now that screams opulence!

Click to expand...

ps: sry double, i can't quote/edit...

Edit + :

And i want that one daddy !

Shadooz said:

That's why i wanted to try paperclay too, cause the thinness could let radiation reach the rubies (which still are required here).
Qwartz have conduction of 6 W/(m.K) which is better but its need of thickness for solidity may reduce the radiation effectivity.

Click to expand...

Realistically this heater is too efficient to produce much radiation. That’s one of the stark differences between torched quartz versus heating electrically is the lack of radiant heating. You can feel the radiant heat from the torch over a foot away, but the coil emits very little radiation from the low process temps used in this efficient design.

You need a glowing hot element to produce significant radiant heat, like a toaster oven. That works for other designs, but would quickly combust with this. The only way to produce significant radiant heating here is to remove the beads entirely, and turn the temperature up until it’s just a simple “oven.” Takes around double the set temperature for that model.

Cool thing with that is even going naked with no beads, there’s still no glowing hot metal in the path since the coil is external.

Shadooz said:

Still the medical aspect of that ceramic which is unknown..
Weakness to corrosion, can't say how it would react to simple ISO

Click to expand...

It’s seen some use in medical heaters, and other components but It actually doesn’t really like water, so pure 99% ISO would be better. This bothered me at first, but as a heater component it probably doesn’t matter. Properly designed components would never get condensation anyways, so it shouldn’t ever need any cleaning. And even if it did, probably more effective to just burn it off.

Shadooz said:

And i want that one daddy !

Click to expand...

Great choice, very nice color and clarity, I say if your dad doesn’t buy you and all your friends a set of those for graduation, he’s nothing more than a fool! He doesn’t seriously think he can just hang out on a 300 foot boat forever, does he? 🛥🛥🛥🛥🛥

invertedisdead said:

Great choice, very nice color and clarity

Click to expand...

I know

I've just watch today about it, for the lab price, i fall on the 4c graduation i wasn't aware of, why i choose this one for the best conduction.

But damn even the lab one are not cheap but not too bad quality

invertedisdead said:

It’s seen some use in medical heaters, and other components but It actually doesn’t really like water, so pure 99% ISO would be better. This bothered me at first, but as a heater component it probably doesn’t matter. Properly designed components would never get condensation anyways, so it shouldn’t ever need any cleaning. And even if it did, probably more effective to just burn it off.

Click to expand...

Not for lung inhalation...
ISO is still a solvent.. wait too see how they react. Cause, u still will have burnt residue and homedust (if u don't put it in a cocoon) to wipe...

invertedisdead said:

You need a glowing hot element to produce significant radiant heat

Click to expand...

Not at all, not with over-reactive compound and short spread.
Direct contact exchange are def not the full part, radiation is not an insignificant one.
But yes, rubies in qwartz won't get warm with the coil radiation, reason of their lower recovery

@Shadooz I have a different portable vape concept that works primarily on the radiation principal, maybe I will post it some day! It’s extremely stoney, but involves a bit of technique to use as it’s completely manual.

Just don’t have time to pursue all of these ideas, but I’m feeling good about being close to crossing this desktop ball vape off the list! It will be great to start getting stuff out to people to enjoy.

invertedisdead said:

@Shadooz I have a different portable vape concept that works primarily on the radiation principal, maybe I will post it some day! It’s extremely stoney, but involves a bit of technique to use as it’s completely manual.

Just don’t have time to pursue all of these ideas, but I’m feeling good about being close to crossing this desktop ball vape off the list! It will be great to start getting stuff out to people to enjoy.

Click to expand...

That face when you're not sure if you're in the first or second wave of the wait-list...


Just as long as I get in one

invertedisdead said:

I have a different portable vape concept that works primarily on the radiation principal, maybe I will post it some day! It’s extremely stoney, but involves a bit of technique to use as it’s completely manual.

Click to expand...

Was talking only about coil radiation exchange to the heat dissipator...(housing+beads or AlN).
not the herbs..

It's the crucial part for stability and recovery, a bit sad if u don't get it..
As also the reason u do the first trying batch in 16mm... knowing the low mass of the elev8r is one of the bottleneck, u still do the same as it...

MikeRotchHertz said:

That face when you're not sure if you're in the first or second wave of the wait-list...

https://imgur.com/a/3Y9nuC8

Just as long as I get in one

Click to expand...

The Golden Girls was a great show!

All those old shows are way funnier than anything new.

Ain’t that right Ma’

Yeah I honestly didn’t do the best job with this wait list since I was lagging around for a bit. But I’ll definitely do whatever I can to accommodate. This first run is super small, a bit of a pilot but I’m planning the next one already; pending any feedback from this one. Not really anticipating much, if any changes although never say never!

Shadooz said:

As also the reason u do the first trying batch in 16mm... knowing the low mass of the elev8r is one of the bottleneck, u still do the same as it...

Click to expand...

I got 99 problems but thermal mass ain’t one!

invertedisdead said:

I got 99 problems but thermal mass ain’t one!

Click to expand...

It's the difference that level up from a 50' mustang over-consumating to a contemporary formula one..
The transmission...
Or "gearbox"..