Discontinued Zion vaporizer

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Yeah flexability is always key, that being said, I personally hate mesh screens in general and would always prefer a built in glass honeycomb to extra steel mesh... I know most times its not really an option like with underdog and most convection vapes, and with a clean proper mesh screen performance it as its best, but I just happen to hate having to use them

Thanks all for the killer input everyone! What about the mesh screen do you like/dislike? What about the glass screen do you like / dislike?

@pakalolo maybe we need a tighter fit to the joint? Would a heavier mesh screen be better? It would tend to clog less and it would be stiffer so it would hold form and stay in place better? What if we did like HD said and make a metal cylinder that has a screen bottom that fits into the mouthpiece like a bullet in a gun... Except the load is different lol.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Thanks all for the killer input everyone! What about the mesh screen do you like/dislike? What about the glass screen do you like / dislike?

@pakalolo maybe we need a tighter fit to the joint? Would a heavier mesh screen be better? It would tend to clog less and it would be stiffer so it would hold form and stay in place better? What if we did like HD said and make a metal cylinder that has a screen bottom that fits into the mouthpiece like a bullet in a gun... Except the load is different lol.

I hate how mesh clogs so quickly and easily, all the different sizes, fine vs course, how they can fray on the edges and/or unravel, how basket screens get herb caught on the sides and top edges, how they can be tricky to place and move, many variables.

I like that glass would make it once piece, simple to clean or use even when dirty, just poke the holes clear and good to go, can't do that with mesh. And maybe tastse is ever so slightly better without metal mesh? Very debateable as I'm not even sure about that lol

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

Do the larger holes in the ceramic screens let more load material through? Seems like fine grind would pass?

Earlier in the thread we talked about wood stems, metal stems and now custom glass and drop in pre-loaded pods... All great ideas for accessories. For launch we will optimize the current adjustable screen (I vote for a lager mesh and a tighter fit) and then we can play with accessories on the future.

 

[pakalolo]

Do the larger holes in the ceramic screens let more load material through? Seems like fine grind would pass?

Earlier in the thread we talked about wood stems, metal stems and now custom glass and drop in pre-loaded pods... All great ideas for accessories. For launch we will optimize the current adjustable screen (I vote for a lager mesh and a tighter fit) and then we can play with accessories on the future.

I didn't mean to stir up anything, but this is a good discussion. I think being adjustable is a big positive that outweighs the negatives. Making it easier to place and position would obviously be better, but I think the system as it is right now would be fine for most people. Since there are ELBs and Arizer elbow screens, I don't see any reason for you to offer equivalents. I can't see how they would generate enough revenue to offset the effort required.

I tried using a standard stem without a screen with my Solo, just relying on the four glass holes. I found that it did pass some fine material. I put a stainless steel screen in mine and it's been there ever since. Although I don't use the Solo a lot, it has had some use and the screen has never shown signs of clogging.

 

[thekarmawhore]

session map testing so far indicates little need to reposition to be closer to the heater, at least with mine. I see no appreciable difference in performance between 12 and 24mm, given the same load, and prefer the deeper bowl which makes for spill free stirring.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I never liked em in Solo stems, never had much issue with herb coming through but it can, and often sticks to stem oils. Better than solo would be smaller holes and more of them.

Clogging is more of an issue in convection vapes like underdog, lily, elevape, etc in my experience

 

[RastaBuddhaTao]

I never liked em in Solo stems, never had much issue with herb coming through but it can, and often sticks to stem oils. Better than solo would be smaller holes and more of them.

Clogging is more of an issue in convection vapes like underdog, lily, elevape, etc in my experience

I notice more clogging the lower the temperature. I really don't seem to clog the mouthpiece screen that often... Beta testers have you experienced much clogging?

 

[Shit Snacks]

I notice more clogging the lower the temperature. I really don't seem to clog the mouthpiece screen that often... Beta testers have you experienced much clogging?

Ofcourse, I do love me some low temps...

 

[HD Springer]

I have used the same basket in my eq for 2 years and my only problem is as pak says the ID on glass are not always the same.it can get very frustrating having the whole basket keep falling out into the bowl.

 

[TheDudeNextDoor]

Most of the built-in honeycomb glass screens will let the finer material through, which as others have indicated, causes particulate on the stem and sometimes in the mouth. I think the best designs with the glass screen is one where you can fit a flat mesh screen onto it so that the glass screen acts as a sort of platform for the mesh screen.

I don't mind mesh screens as long as they are easy to remove, clean, and replace without damaging or weakening them, which leads to unraveling, etc.

The ones I HATE are any that are difficult to seat correctly or that shift around in use. Some of the earlier ones where you had to form the screen and carefully place it in the tube...ugh!

 

[pakalolo]

session map testing so far indicates little need to reposition to be closer to the heater, at least with mine. I see no appreciable difference in performance between 12 and 24mm, given the same load, and prefer the deeper bowl which makes for spill free stirring.

My results differ a little. I loaded three stems with .o7 g each of the same material, lightly packed. One was with an elbow screen, which left the top of the load 2-3 mm from the heater screen. The other two had Zion screens adjusted so the top of the load was 12 mm and 24 mm from the heater screen. I set the power at 50%. I pre-heated each hit for 12 seconds, then drew for 10 seconds attempting to keep a consistent rate. At 24 mm and 12 mm, I agree that the difference is not significant. At 2 mm, however, I clearly get more and thicker vapour. So there does seem to be a drop-off as you move back, but it isn't linear.

It's also not significant. Your heater and mine aren't the same, and I'm not sure what will actually get put into production. It really doesn't matter for the same reason the load distance doesn't matter: you can always find a combination that works for you. As long as there is a power setting that can reach combustion for your load distance, you can find something.

For the record, at 100% power, 20 seconds pre-heat, and huffing like crazy, I could not make a load 36 mm away from the screen do anything but taste horrible. At 24 mm I got thick heavy vapour and almost a burnt taste but not quite. At 20 mm I got a cherry. 20 mm is pretty deep, so I think the Zion has enough range to satisfy everyone.

I notice more clogging the lower the temperature. I really don't seem to clog the mouthpiece screen that often... Beta testers have you experienced much clogging?

Not really. I examine the screen after every load and if I think it is starting to get clogged, I give it a quick ISO soak. A lot depends on your material. When I was testing ultra fine grind, I had to watch for clogging.

The ones I HATE are any that are difficult to seat correctly or that shift around in use.

I feel the same and sadly, glass parts aren't perfectly uniform so in some stems the Zion screens will behave like this. ELBs and elbow screens won't, of course. I wouldn't expect this to be a common problem, and @RastaBuddhaTao has said he'll look into improving this aspect.

 

[stickstones]

I can't comment to any clogging screens since I mostly use mine with the ELB and the M2M adapter to a bubbler.

 

[pakalolo]

I can't comment to any clogging screens since I mostly use mine with the ELB and the M2M adapter to a bubbler.

Well do the ELBs clog? I suspect they're like the other screens, i.e. not much clogging and easily cleaned.

 

[stickstones]

it works great...although it has had the benefit of two cleanings after my combustions!

 

[Shit Snacks]

ELBs do seem to be really nice and useful, wanted em for my LSV back when I had it, but they're so expensive on their own, so never bought em.

That's the only reason I would like all accessories to come through Zion, keeping the cost down instead if ordering things from various different places.

Luckily I do already have a couple EQ screens that came with my LSV but never liked using em, for the uneven fit as described here, and its so shallow I always fear for spilling, even when using them in my friends actual EQ. But that was just me, I feel like they're precarious, but he clearly has no trouble

 

[TheDudeNextDoor]

The ELBs really do work nicely, and they don't clog any more quickly than any other type of metal screen. They do break down after awhile though -- the center seam starts coming apart, and they're done. And yep, $20 for 4 is kind of steep. I wonder what the markup on those things is.

 

[cybrguy]

anyplace to get the elbs more reasonably? $5 ea is a bit pricy, especially if they don't last. I'm not terribly good at making stuff like that.
Does anyone else even make something similar?
RBT and TKW may come up with a better idea so I'll wait a while.

 

[pakalolo]

anyplace to get the elbs more reasonably? $5 ea is a bit pricy, especially if they don't last. I'm not terribly good at making stuff like that.
Does anyone else even make something similar?
RBT and TKW may come up with a better idea so I'll wait a while.

My advice is that people should try the Zion system before buying anything. If you have ELBs or elbow screens then by all means try them, but don't go and get them before you know whether the Zion screens will be all you need.

 

[HD Springer]

I think people will be pleasantly surprised with the screens suplied with the unit.I might be wrong but I'm not to worried about the screens.

 

[cybrguy]

Hey, for you guys who have one. How much side clearance does the zion need?. Would it be too tight to use something like the FC-1000 without adding an adapter (like a cloud buddy) or silicone?

 

[pakalolo]

Hey, for you guys who have one. How much side clearance does the zion need?. Would it be too tight to use something like the FC-1000 without adding an adapter (like a cloud buddy) or silicone?

You bring up a good point. Jessica can't handle anything with an OD bigger than 25 mm. You need 30 mm of height to clear the back.

 

[stickstones]

You bring up a good point. Jessica can't handle anything with an OD bigger than 25 mm. You need 30 mm of height to clear the back.

I don't understand this, and I'm not hammered yet!

When the Zion is inverted it can get right up next to the can, if necessary, by having the knob end point away from the glass piece. The air path and glass connector are right at the edge of the unit, so horizontal clearance shouldn't be an issue, right? I only use the CloudBuddy with the Zion because I like the carb and I keep my hemp filter in there. But I can invert it on any of my pieces, even my stemless.

 

[cybrguy]

So, without the cloudbuddy you would still have the clearance necessary to use it with something close like the FC-1000? I obviously don't have an FC-1000 to measure, but I have a D020-T that has only about 8mm of clearance at it's tightest point.

This is where on the FC-1000 I am concerned, for example.

Not a big deal anyway due to adapters, but just wondering how close it can get.

 

[stickstones]

I'll check this for you when I get it back. I was going to go upstairs and check, but Sarah is in for a re-calibration to current specs. But if you watch my video, you can see it doesn't need much room to work with the air path off center. Memory tells me it will work like I said, but let me confirm first...

 

[pakalolo]

I don't understand this, and I'm not hammered yet!

When the Zion is inverted it can get right up next to the can, if necessary, by having the knob end point away from the glass piece. The air path and glass connector are right at the edge of the unit, so horizontal clearance shouldn't be an issue, right? I only use the CloudBuddy with the Zion because I like the carb and I keep my hemp filter in there. But I can invert it on any of my pieces, even my stemless.

That's because when I wrote that I was thinking of something like the F-Bomb or PWT. Those are female and need a gender-bender which has to raise them high enough to clear the back. We cleared this up in IRC, where the hell were you?