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RBT shipping thread

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
He's still in the middle of October. What has he done that's to be negative about. Other than not giving purchase conformation. If I was to guess that will be put in place.im going to wait off of this thread since as you said it's to post concerns and I really don't have any. I've been waiting since January. But…… that's just me.
 

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Shipping threads exist so that people can discuss their concerns/worries about shipping without being told off for it. Seeing the beta group collectively sweep in when people use it for exactly that is a bit too much for me.

Your first sentence is correct. Your second sentence is as much of an overreaction as you describe for the beta team.

To be clear, the following is directed at everyone, not just you.

This thread is not for discussing this thread. Please refrain from criticizing other members and their comments. It's fair to criticize @RastaBuddhaTao for his business practices, just as it's fair to come to his defense. I want to remind everyone once again that the beta team paid for their units and because of that, they will receive the first batch of production Zions. These will be delivered before October is over and if we don't find any problems (and the betas have been remarkably problem-free) then it's possible we could see the first non-beta team orders shipped before the end of the month. I'm making an assumption here, since I don't have confirmation of that yet.

Without exception, every beta tester (although there were supposed to be 10 the team has 14 members I think) has fallen in love with the Zion. We've seen the dedication and hard work of RBT and we are confident that the production model is even better. That's why criticism is met with a defense; however, it is an exaggeration to characterize that as being as hostile as some have.

...we shouldn't have a group of people collectively dismissing anything that could be read as remotely negative.

Again, this is just an example, others have done the same, but this is a sweeping generalization that just isn't true.

What I find rather comical is that there are grown adults who think it is okay to not only miss deadlines a businessman sets for himself, but to not even acknowledge that he has missed them. THAT to me is comical.

I understand RBT is incredibly busy right now, but he had the time to update the FAQ, why couldn't he take the three seconds to remove "Oct 2015" from the page where you give him your money at? Doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless he still wants potential orders to think they will ship this month.

Perhaps it was overlooked. This comment is pretty harsh. I don't know what business world you inhabit but in all the ones I've experienced, deadlines are missed and yes, sometimes without acknowledgement. When it happens, reasonable business people first look for the reasons why before offering condemnation. That's because most of them have missed deadlines themselves. If there's no reason to suspect outright deception and the original promise was made in good faith, that sets the tone of their reaction. I think some of you are being unreasonable.

When RBT told me he was taking pre-orders, I shuddered because everything we see unfolding here was easily predictable. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else says, there are those who will not see past "Shipping October 2" and feel that it is a terrible thing to have stated that goal and missed it. That's just human nature, and calling them names (I'm looking at you @KeroZen) doesn't help and won't change them. This is the thread where they can express themselves whether they are reasonable or not, but it is not the place to squabble over the point. Keep posting criticisms, and as long as they fall within the rules then there is no problem, but with such a large beta team who all love their Zions, expect every criticism to be met with a defense. That's also human nature.
 
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peaceonearth

high since 1968
Site says "Shipping starting October 2015", which is technically true. However it's not that helpful for those placing new orders; those folks just want to get an idea of when their unit will ship. I think he should change it to an estimate of when new orders are expected to ship.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Site says "Shipping starting October 2015", which is technically true. However it's not that helpful for those placing new orders; those folks just want to get an idea of when their unit will ship. I think he should change it to an estimate of when new orders are expected to ship.

Agreed, I've been saying that for a long time, and its why I said several times in the thread that all those new pre orders that jumped in after the beta team's glowing reviews after two months should expect no sooner than November.

I wanted RBT to change the site too, his initial estimate of beating October even was beyond optimistic it was a hopeful goal not a guarantee in the least. I was actually surprised when he said it, but knowing the design as I do I knew it wasn't impossible. However with slight heater tweaks it ofcourse had to be pushed back, and we will all benefit from the tweaks so we all win.

I think @pakalolo put it perfectly, sure RBT made the mistake of creating these expectations for some, but his specialty is designing and building a fucking incredible vape, that's why be has helpers for the rest, but this is not a full time company yet, his life is crazy right now and I think everyone should keep that in mind. This production can easily be scaled up, and it will (so not quite like HI), but it will take some time. Notably getting the precise specs confirmed is what's taken the most time lately, and now that they are we should be seeing a steady progression as they are churned out more and more at a time. This was always part of the plan, and was extremely clear to me following the thread from the beginning, before my early waitlist entry was even chosen to be early pre order and beta tester...

Now being part of the beta team we do have a more inside track to the goings on ofcourse, and we come here to share that insight to help assure others that all is fine, and they will be rewarded for their patience in spades soon enough. I am waiting without a Zion to use now as well, but I know it is so worth the wait that it doesn't bother me one bit bc the production Zion will keep me beyond satisfied for a very very long time

Agreed, any and all can share their complaints and opinions here, just as we are also free to provide our own opinions. We are all paying customers and dedicated FC members...
 

fyx

Well-Known Member
If people are allowed to criticize RBT, others should be allowed to defend him. I'm just curious how many preorders were made after the beta team and just want an idea of when it will deliver, which sounds like this information will come in the next couple weeks. I still believe the majority of preorders will be delivered by thanksgiving, but again, I have no clue how many preorders there were.
 

IAmKrazy2

Darth Vapor
If people are allowed to criticize RBT, others should be allowed to defend him. I'm just curious how many preorders were made after the beta team and just want an idea of when it will deliver, which sounds like this information will come in the next couple weeks. I still believe the majority of preorders will be delivered by thanksgiving, but again, I have no clue how many preorders there were.

I certainly can't speak for RBT but I very much agree that this seems very probable. The Zion has proved to be reliable in the past, and i am hoping all will go great with the soft launch and RBT will be able to amp up shortly there after.
 
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Frank Reynolds

Well-Known Member
Site says "Shipping starting October 2015", which is technically true. However it's not that helpful for those placing new orders; those folks just want to get an idea of when their unit will ship. I think he should change it to an estimate of when new orders are expected to ship.
As has been stated multiple times in this thread already it doesn't say "starting" shipping. It says "Oct 2015." Which with any other product or company would be taken to mean "You will get it in October of 2015 if you order right now." Seeing as how it is on the product page where you order and always has been. I never once saw it say "starting" shipping and it definitely doesn't now.

I'm done :horse: I think I'll go hang out in another thread haha.

Edit: It says "starting" on your receipt, but you don't get that until after you've ordered thinking you will receive it in "Oct 2015"
 
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peaceonearth

high since 1968
As has been stated multiple times in this thread already it doesn't say "starting" shipping. It says "Oct 2015." Which with any other product or company would be taken to mean "You will get it in October of 2015 if you order right now." Seeing as how it is on the product page where you order and always has been. I never once saw it say "starting" shipping and it definitely doesn't now.

I'm done :horse: I think I'll go hang out in another thread haha.

Edit: It says "starting" on your receipt, but you don't get that until after you've ordered thinking you will receive it in "Oct 2015"
I beg to differ... http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/apps/webstore/
Of course that might've been updated recently.
 
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peaceonearth,
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Frank Reynolds

Well-Known Member
That isn't the Zion's product page that is the store's main page.

WMdRSR8.jpg

WMdRSR8.jpg


http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/apps/webstore/products/show/5734628
 
Frank Reynolds,

peaceonearth

high since 1968
@Frank Reynolds I agree more wording should be added to that page, to clarify what is meant by that date. But as it is being presented now, a month/year in bold in the header of a product description page for a product that has yet to be released typically means a release date and not a guarantee as to when you'll get yours. I assume that's what he had in mind. But the storefront page, where you go to first, clearly says Shipping Starting October 2015.

:peace:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Eh...I never expected October but I figured it would at least be here before Thanksgiving. That seems unlikely now. This is starting to become disappointing...not pulling out but not as excited as I was before that is for sure.
I am not in a position to make any promises, and I likely wouldn't if I was. However, I have no reason to think that what you "figured" is not still true. I would not be surprised if most orders at least are filled before Turkey Day. And I would bet money (still) that all (in the US at least) who have already placed orders will have them before the end of the year. PM me if anyone wants to take that bet.
As has been stated multiple times in this thread already it doesn't say "starting" shipping. It says "Oct 2015." Which with any other product or company would be taken to mean "You will get it in October of 2015 if you order right now."
You have obviously never been to (or maybe noticed) an Auto website. Coming in October would mean in October you could place an order. Tesla, someone RBT would probably LOVE being compared to, hasn't even been close to his projection dates...
 

IAmKrazy2

Darth Vapor
On the positive end, saw the buddy who helped me out with my last few videos and he would be happy to help me shoot a Zion video or two when i get my unit. Waiting is never fun, but i will do my best to provide a couple of fun videos to help ya'll pass the time. I get anxious waiting too, and have been quick to call out manufacturers in the past when i have had somewhat similar situations when i felt i deserved more from the manufacturer. I called them out whether my feelings were justified or not because they were my honest perspective.

I am the only beta tester to not try an actual Zion prototype. So i will likely be the first to get a unit who has yet to try regulated Zion tech and i am looking forward to seeing how quickly i can pick things up. I will be sure to report back on learning curve among other first impressions.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I am the only beta tester to not try an actual Zion prototype. So i will likely be the first to get a unit who has yet to try regulated Zion tech and i am looking forward to seeing how quickly i can pick things up. I will be sure to report back on learning curve among other first impressions.
Too bad we couldn't meet somewhere in between on Sunday and watch the game together while you try Venus out, but it could come to blows over the football... :)
 

DieHard

Accessory supplier
Accessory Maker
Yeah I feel the same way. I'd share with anyone interested who is nearby. No bad vibes here. I'm waiting just the same. I think I was the second to last to get my Loki, but watching the rest of the beta team fall in love made me that much more excited, not impatient. Remember, these things are made with love...that and a Haas Multi Axis Wood Demon Zion Churner-outer gizmo. When you hold your own in your hand, and it's name then becomes as obvious as the fact that you are in the clouds and content...and you will then truly enter ZION.
 

nosmoking

Just so Dab HAppy!
Name calling will not be allowed.
No offense to the beta team because you guys have been great IMO but I think those of you that have made suggestions of the status of production or possible shipping timeframes should stop unless RBT directly advises you to say something and then you should be very careful to only say what he has said. Some of the Beta team really pushed the idea that people still buying Zions back in June would have them by October or possibly before.

RBT has been cautious with the information he has provided and has always used the key word "expected" which is really just a disclaimer that there could be unexpected delays. He has only missed one date so far and only by a week and he jumped in tonight to explain why. His explanation was thorough, direct and professional.

Through this Zion preorder there have really been two perspectives of production...the beta teams and RBTs. I realized this by the time I placed my order in July or August that RBT was not confirming suggested production timelines that the Beta team mentioned so I knew to seperate the hopefulness and eagerness of the beta team from reality of manufacturing.

Let the whiners cry and the complainers bitch, your not going to make them feel any better.

And for those complaining about the timeline, you followed the Zion thread long enough to know what to expext so shame on you for using the website against RBT or the Beta team. We all knew the FC thread is/was the best and most up to date location to get this information and if you bought a Zion prior to September then you read it as well. We should allbkeepnthis thread empty from here on out until we start recieving shipping info from RBT. Then we can all start posting when we get our shipping notifications.

Maybe we should just create a "zion beta team vs. Spoiled brats" thread to keep the bullshit out of this one.
 

Frank Reynolds

Well-Known Member
No offense to the beta team because you guys have been great IMO but I think those of you that have made suggestions of the status of production or possible shipping timeframes should stop unless RBT directly advises you to say something and then you should be very careful to only say what he has said. Some of the Beta team really pushed the idea that people still buying Zions back in June would have them by October or possibly before.

RBT has been cautious with the information he has provided and has always used the key word "expected" which is really just a disclaimer that there could be unexpected delays. He has only missed one date so far and only by a week and he jumped in tonight to explain why. His explanation was thorough, direct and professional.

Through this Zion preorder there have really been two perspectives of production...the beta teams and RBTs. I realized this by the time I placed my order in July or August that RBT was not confirming suggested production timelines that the Beta team mentioned so I knew to seperate the hopefulness and eagerness of the beta team from reality of manufacturing.

Let the whiners cry and the complainers bitch, your not going to make them feel any better.

And for those complaining about the timeline, you followed the Zion thread long enough to know what to expext so shame on you for using the website against RBT or the Beta team. We all knew the FC thread is/was the best and most up to date location to get this information and if you bought a Zion prior to September then you read it as well. We should allbkeepnthis thread empty from here on out until we start recieving shipping info from RBT. Then we can all start posting when we get our shipping notifications.

Maybe we should just create a "zion beta team vs. Spoiled brats" thread to keep the bullshit out of this one.
Or maybe we should just let the moderators deal with it and keep our childish name calling to ourselves.

Mod note: Please hit the report button rather than responding to this type of posting yourself.
 
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Frank Reynolds,

darkrom

Great Scott!
Best part...


Did you read the website? I can't tell if I'm reading it wrong, but this makes it sound like very few people have anything to be excited about in 2015?

"If I ordered a Zion already when should I expect it to be shipped?

The first 25 units will be start shipping in October and into November. In December we will start to ramp to full production with a 200 unit build. We will be releasing a Zion shipping calendar on our web site to keep people up to date on shipments."

Sounds to me like only 25 will be shipping at best in Oct, and even through November. People like me who ordered thinking they would have it this month are looking more to get it shipped out at late 2015...if not all the way into 2016.

Unless I am misreading that (wish I was!) then I'm damn lucky I didn't get rid of my Mighty yet.
 

srama21

Monotonous Botanist
I'm reading it the same @darkrom. I'm reasonably expecting this thing early 2016.

"In December we will start to ramp to full production with a 200 unit build." The efforts to ramp up production will START in december.
 

hweezi

formally cwheezy
I feel like they could tell us "If you ordered your Zion before ________, 2015, you will receive your Zion before Dec" that would shut a whole lot of people up including myself as it doesn't sound like they'll be shipping during that month.

Doesn't sound impossible . :\
 

fyx

Well-Known Member
Did you read the website? I can't tell if I'm reading it wrong, but this makes it sound like very few people have anything to be excited about in 2015?

"If I ordered a Zion already when should I expect it to be shipped?

The first 25 units will be start shipping in October and into November. In December we will start to ramp to full production with a 200 unit build. We will be releasing a Zion shipping calendar on our web site to keep people up to date on shipments."

Sounds to me like only 25 will be shipping at best in Oct, and even through November. People like me who ordered thinking they would have it this month are looking more to get it shipped out at late 2015...if not all the way into 2016.

Unless I am misreading that (wish I was!) then I'm damn lucky I didn't get rid of my Mighty yet.


The 200 unit build mentioned covers all of the preorders and then some. With the most recent delay, I'm betting most preorders will be shipped mid-December, but again, this is all speculation on my part. Unless something drastically goes wrong with the first batch of shipments, there isn't anything super complex about the Zion that can hold something up.
 

grokit

well-worn member
:cheers:

I'm guessing that all 200 of the Zion pre-orders have been spoken for, as the website is "sold out" atm.
 
grokit,
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