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Zephyr Ion

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by Bruce@Zephyr, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    That drives me nuts. When I smoke with my brother, he will let the pipe or J sit there forever burning while he talks. I'm a miser when it comes to herb, and he is not.
     
  2. spikyvape

    spikyvape Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know wich kind of teflon (PTFE#??) is used.

    And wich factory the teflon is from ? Like dupont this is a big bad ptfe company wich
    is bad for health and enviroment.

    Teflon can be safe but can also be dangerous at vapor temps. :2c:

    Thanks
     
  3. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

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    PTFE or Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon)is a white solid at room temperature, with a density of about 2.2 g/cm3. It's melting point is 327 C (621 F), but its properties degrade above 260 C (500 F).


    The max temperature for the Zephyr ION is 440F keeping it well below the range of any degradation of the Polytetrafluoroethylene. Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) is not a plastic therefore there are not a variety of types(No PTFE#), only a variety of applications. Dupont's Polytetrafluoroethylene (which is the only Polytetrafluoroethylene that can really be called Teflon as it is a trade name.) Is primarily used as a non-stick coating on cookware.
     
  4. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    a little farther down in the Wiki article is this:

    It was experience at a pyrolysis plant that was the genesis of the Eterra.
     
  5. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

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    The very next line states "Animal studies indicate that it is unlikely that these products would be generated in amounts significant to health at temperatures below 250 C (482 F)" since this pretty much repeated the info from earlier in the post, I chose to leave it out.
     
  6. spikyvape

    spikyvape Well-Known Member

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    That's what i mean, i know my aromed has teflon in it but it is a different medical grade teflon.

    Not made by dupont but by BASF.

    Don't forget we are talking about inhaling here, so full contact ! Wenn it is starting to flake of after
    some usage i wouldn't be happy with it.

    I would like to know the type of Teflon # ?

    Hope Zephyr looks into this very serious !
     
  7. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    The resident FC scientist sees no problem with the teflon used in his Herbalaire.


    Bruce, do you know what the approximate average and maximum temperatures the teflon parts are exposed to in the Ion?

    spikyvape, you must live in a bubble. :lol: Seriously you've made health implications about the materials of just about every popular vape there is. It's fine to be concerned about safe materials, I am, but constantly making accusations while providing no evidence is something else. After you made a sock puppet account to do so I'm really starting to question your motives.

    edit:
    Where did I imply otherwise? :huh:
     
  8. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    since that line said "unlikely", instead of "doesn't", i chose to leave it out.

    vtac - i don't know about you, but the possible negative health consequences of a vaporizer that i may sell weigh very heavy on my mind.

    edit: it was your comment about living in a bubble. and i agree that based on the datasheet, teflon is "unlikely" to be a problem, but pyrolysis at 392F means that the teflon is disintegrating, eh?

    in my mind 400F is a very serious temperature ... i.e. i don't sit inhaling on that kind of heat in any situation other than vaping.
     
  9. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

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    I am not certain where you gentlemen are getting your information but there is only one kind of Polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) it doesn't matter who the manufacturer is. The chemical composite is the same.

    That being said, the Teflon we use for the Zephyr Ion is only on the nozzle tip where the mouthpiece/valve connects. It doesn't come in contact with the direct heat source and does not heat up anywhere near 400F. The only way to get it that hot would be to turn the unit up to 440F and set the pump to the maximum auto shut off setting of 3 hours. Even then you would be hard pressed to reach 400(f) on that part of the unit.
     
  10. spikyvape

    spikyvape Well-Known Member

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    Vtac
    i know you have issues with me, i don't know why maybe you can't stand it i got every vape
    on the market, I can only say don;t hate really i am not that bad if you knew my intentions.

    But you can tell about me what you wan't i have had every vaporizer on the market wich
    are well known (no china knockoffs). I studied all the parts and maybe if you cared more about
    your inhalation device you could tell the same as me. If you didn't please don't even bother replying.

    If you only knew what kind of shit is used in vaporizers today.

    I talked with manufacturers from used parts in vapes and you wouldn't believe how many told me:
    We don't advice you to use our parts as a part in a inhalation device......

    I hate ignorant people who just buy vapes and don't even bother wich materials are used, i wouldn't trust
    vapecompanies. Their main goal is money, or do you really think they care about you. There are
    exeptions like Frank from aromed and mark from vriptech ! And no this is no spam my friend.

    Also i can tell you that there are 2 vapes on the market that changed parts in their vaporizer wenn i
    have given them some of my thoughts, and yes this wass backed up with evidence.

    With your puppet account, really man maybe my brother has an account i will ask him wenn i can get
    out of my bubble ;)

    With the Zephyr (back on topic) my concerns where about the teflon and they are legit, take the effort
    and look more into the materials, i don't say the zephyr is bad (didn't tried it that's why i am asking) i
    just like to know the ptfe#, is it ptfe#2 and do you have a ptfe outgassing test made ?

    :peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:
     
  11. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate your time and energies spent in detailing the reality of the particular piece being used rather than having the issue stand as if it was subjected to the those questions. On a typical general vapor run what would the typical temperature of the teflon nozzle reach during use at a general/recommended use temperature?
     
  12. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    Oh it was your brother was it, spikyvape?

    Sorry but when you're on a vaporizer forum and you do nothing but accuse vaporizers as being unsafe you're going to rub people the wrong way. At least provide some evidence.

    I apologize for derailing this thread. Material safety can be discussed in a new thread.
     
  13. spikyvape

    spikyvape Well-Known Member

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    Vtac you have an PM :ko:

    Yes ontopic ;)
     
  14. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

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    Again I maintain there is no # associated with Polytetrafluoroethylene, there is no Polytetrafluoroethylene #1 or #2 Or #3 for that matter. The name itself describes what the product is. If I am mistaken I would be happy to amend my assertions that teflon is teflon is teflon,.. the applications of teflon is what varies not the chemical makeup.

    The Polytetrafluoroethylene we use for the Nozzle, see the photos above, is milled from a single block of pure Polytetrafluoroethylene and does not get hotter than 200F in normal use. In fact when the entire unit is running at max, the teflon part is the least hot.

    I must admit, you folks are certainly serious about your vapes. It is good to see people who take this much time and thought to ask questions that may affect their health, life or very least affect how much they enjoy their vape experience.
     
  15. the electrician

    the electrician Well-Known Member

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    why not use a glass on glass connection system for the whip/bags? integrate that with your existing model, maybe throw in some keck clamps and there you have it. no leakage whatsoever. is this more interesting than talking about teflon however? you decide
     
  16. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

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    Funny you mention it,..
    I would much rather talk about glass on glass than teflon. HAHA
    We are working on a glass system for the direct draw and whip crowd. In the current incarnation, the glass end piece fits snug onto the nozzle tip.
     
  17. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    OCD Vaporists R Us !! ;)
     
  18. spikyvape

    spikyvape Well-Known Member

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    Zephyr thanks for the info, i know my Aromed uses PTFE-6 from BASF produced in Germany on high
    ecological standards. Dupont mainly produces PTFE-2 wich is well know that they are also polluting
    the environment with their production (which might be harmful to even more people who live in the factories' surrounding).

    If you are using PTFE-6 i think you are on the right side man ;)
     
  19. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    :lol: Truer words were never spoken.

    Always nice to see a vape maker who isn't afraid to improve their product. :tup:

    I'll be honest, I was afraid of teflon a few years ago and even recommended against the Herbalaire because of it. This was mostly due to hearing horror stories about pets dropping dead because of someone cooking on a non stick pan, which were most likely from the always credible email forward from your aunt. I've seen non stick pans with the coatings flaking off like crazy and that still freaks me the fuck out and I avoid at all costs.

    But after doing some investigation into the matter, it does seem that ptfe is perfectly safe under the conditions it is used in vaporizers, i.e. not hitting 600 degrees on a stove and getting scraped with a metal spatula. Also there is a difference between a piece of teflon milled from a solid piece of ptfe and the coating on a non stick pan. Most of all, when the head scientist of FC labs says it's safe in the application and owns a Herbalaire himself I tend to not be so worried. If there is evidence of it being unsafe in a vaporizer please let's see it, I would be the first person to post it, but until then, the onus is on those who accuse it of being unsafe.

    All that said, yes, for the love of God, use glass. I love glass. People can't complain about glass. Until they break it and complain it's not durable.

    :peace:
     
  20. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    check back in 40 years when long-term Epidemiological studies of teflon use in vapes have more data points.

    Amen!
     
  21. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    " I posted how my buddy blows glass and he thought it wasnt safe to use colored glass and I said bullshit. Does anyone know the affects of the metal oxides used to make the colors in glass pipes. Also looking for info on stainless and titanium pipes. I found some info on the web on glass ingredients. I didnt know that some of the stuff in optical glasses was radioactive so think about it.
    soda and lime, most common glass has other ingredients added to change its properties. Lead glass, such as lead crystal or flint glass, is more 'brilliant' because the increased refractive index causes noticeably more "sparkles", while boron may be added to change the thermal and electrical properties, as in Pyrex. Adding barium also increases the refractive index. Thorium oxide gives glass a high refractive index and low dispersion, and was formerly used in producing high-quality lenses, but due to its radioactivity has been replaced by lanthanum oxide in modern eye glasses. Large amounts of iron are used in glass that absorbs infrared energy, such as heat absorbing filters for movie projectors, while cerium(IV) oxide can be used for glass that absorbs UV wavelengths (biologically damaging ionizing radiation).
    Two other common glass ingredients are calumite (an iron industry by-product) and "cullet" (recycled glass). The recycled glass saves on raw materials and energy. However, impurities in the cullet can lead to product and equipment failure.
    Finally, fining agents such as sodium sulfate, sodium chloride, or antimony oxide are added to reduce the bubble content in the glass.[8] Glass batch calculation is the method by which the correct raw material mixture is determined to achieve the desired glass composition."
    ----silvertoker

    So..........how safe is glass, really (a bit if tongue-in-cheek here.) ;)
     
  22. Bruce@Zephyr

    Bruce@Zephyr Vapor Fan Manufacturer

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    I agree with Hippie Dickie and Iwien,.... Till all the tests come back it is a matter of preference.
     
  23. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    also, Pyrex isn't "Pyrex" anymore. the brand was sold and a soda-lime is actually used, resulting in exploding cookware.

    Borosilicate is what i prefer and is what Pyrex used to be. Test Tubes and vials are labware and are, thus, one of the most tested substanced in use. imho, of course.
     
  24. tophfisher

    tophfisher Well-Known Member

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    I have a stupid question,

    I'm a Zephyr owner and am quite happy, I think I bought mine before the whip add-on was available, I'd love to get one.

    But that's not my question, with the bag, how long can a bag stay "effective". Is there a limited amount of time, and if so, what is it?

    Thanks so much, I recommend the Zephyr Ion to everyone I know who's in the market!
    -Chris
     
  25. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your time. My reasoning for asking is that I sometimes discuss vaporizers with ill people and every once in awhile someone ask about the materials, though never to such an extent, but I like to have the information regarding it in case someone should ask. The fact its operational temperature will be in the 200 degree range and thus far under the higher temperature that would be needed to be an issue I believe it should satisfy all but the most selective/strict in personal preference.

    I realize many vaporizer companies do not take the effort to speak the us on this type of level and I for one greatly appreciate it and wish you lots of luck with the Zypher.
     

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