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You cant trust concentrates these days

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by pressure, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. pressure

    pressure Active Member

    Messages:
    151
    So My friend put me on to some vape CO2 oil pens...thought they were great. bought 10
    so im puffing on them, for over a month, first batch was good.
    then 2nd batch of 10 comes in I thought he water my oil down (keep in mind the co2 oil is from a well known company called platinum vape)
    so I go on vacation to California and see the market for myself, I got put on to weedmaps, and started to hit dispensaries. I bought alot of oil pens and I realized when you buy a vape pen with oil you dont know whats in it. Your leaving your health in the hands of someone else who might cut corners

    that said, I like the concentrates but these days you cant trust them
     
  2. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    2,973
    Make them yourself, from your own bud using rosin tek and you will be fine!
     
  3. biohacker

    biohacker Fucking Combustion Since 2006

    Messages:
    5,407
    I won't touch a concentrate unless it's solventless (like rosin) from a trusted source. Just not worth the risk IMO, but I guess i'm a hippoclit because truthfully have no idea what's really even in the bud I source from a legal controlled licensed producer in Canada.
     
  4. GreenHopper

    GreenHopper 20 going on 60

    Messages:
    1,267
    Grow your.....wait we're not allowed to talk about that :tinfoil:
     
    The Beagle, Squiby, howie105 and 3 others like this.
  5. biohacker

    biohacker Fucking Combustion Since 2006

    Messages:
    5,407
    I plan to my friend, one day, just a timing thing for myself......
     
    JCat and GreenHopper like this.
  6. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    464
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    Agree with everyone.

    I hit the dispensaries <1/year to try out new strains.
     
    GreenHopper likes this.
  7. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    150
    Follow some simple guidelines when buying your oil in cartridges and you should be fine.

    1. Look for ingredients on the packaging. Never buy from a brand that doesn't show them or mixes their oil with any of the following:

    PG (Propylene glycol), VG (Vegetable Glycerin), PEG (Polyethylene glycol), food grade terpenes (e.g: D-limonene) .

    You only want oil that's mixed with cannabis-derived and better yet, strain-specific terpenes in it.

    2. Check how viscous the oil in the cartridge is. Generally, the thicker, the better. You don't want to see the oil flowing around freely within the cartridge. The more viscous it is, the more it's been mixed with stuff that you don't want. Good oil cartridges are very thick and don't tend to flow around much unless heated.

    3. Make sure you have the right battery for the cartridge you're using. Having a battery that gives off too much voltage can make the cartridge give off a burnt taste when taking pulls. Having too low of a voltage will leave you unsatisfied with the amount of vapor in every pull. Usually, the brand provides the right battery, otherwise it can be a bit of a P.I.T.A sometimes.

    4. Look for good hardware in cartridges. The new ones with the metal rod in the middle tend to perform much better than the older ones with a white silica wick at the bottom.

    here is what the better ones generally look like:

    [​IMG]

    These ones usually have a worse taste, leak and fail more often:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  8. FractaLSD

    FractaLSD PsychMyc

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    NYC
    I dont even live in a "legal" state but after a bit of trial and error you can def know what concentrates to buy. Get some FlavRX or KingPen 710. And what i notice isnt whether its made with metal/glass or just plastic. It seems like if theyre 1g, they usually have additives, and the 500mg ones are always advertised as pure, sometimes "no glycol", which is really the best you can ask for.

    You just gotta know what brand is best for you. My main problem with pre-made c02 is the price, and its strangely lower at times here than say in cali, i guess bulk deals and the black market (i guess c02 thats been sitting around gets sold by the thousands or more). Commercially, those carts are so expensive for the fact that they last like 2 days tops for me. Def better to just vape bud with a firefly2 or crafty IMO. But its fast and potent. This is my fav brand At the moment

    PS usually good oil is amber, clearer is better it seems. Much like BHO

    [​IMG]
     
    Diggy Smalls likes this.
  9. pressure

    pressure Active Member

    Messages:
    151

    flavrx was caught using pesticides !

    the only vape pens I saw that had lab testes results was kurvana!

    http://www.stonedcali.com/beware-companys-products-tested-positive-harmful-pesticides/


    Steep Hill Lab’s based in Berkeley is one of the largest cannabis testing labs in the nation, making them the obvious choice for this investigative article. The allowable limits for pesticides were based off of the allowable limits in Oregon, Washington, Massachusetts and Nevada. These recreational marijuana states currently regulate the use of pesticide in cannabis and are being used as models for future California cannabis regulations.

    Although the cannabis flower wasn’t branded it was found at the following dispensaries: 5 Gram Eighths, Bonafide, Gram Kings, Herbarium LA, Hollywood High Grade, HRC Inc., Kush Burners, LA Patients & Caregivers Collective, Long Lodge Tribal, Mary Jane’s, Perennial Holistic Wellness Center, PMA Collective, Undefeated 30 Cap, Urban Treez and Venice Medical Center.

    The “vape” cartridges were branded and the following brands failed the pesticide testing: THClear Private Reserve Skywalker, Heavy Hitters Truth, Spliffin Pure Dante’s Fire, Honey Blackberry, Bhang Pure Sativa, Oasis Clear Paris OG, Oasis Clear SFV OG, The Clear Strawberry, Honey Farm Indica, Bhang Pure Hybrid, Bloom Farms Highlighter Indica, Flav Rx Blackberry Kush, California Honey Skywalker, Flav Rx Sour Diesel, Flav Rx Train Wreck, Rove Indica OG and G Farma Labs Liquid Gold Red.

    We may not have regulations in place for pesticides in California but that doesn’t mean that we can’t begin to educate ourselves and our community about what safe cannabis products are currently on our market. We implore everyone to ask the necessary questions and do the research about the brands, when purchasing from a dispensary
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  10. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    464
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    In New Mexico, the ugly step child of medical states, you get what you get. Even if you shop around the various dispensaries they are all sourced the same. Best case you are produced inhouse. Doesn't mean they are pesticide/solvent free but at least you remove one step of culpability.
     
  11. FractaLSD

    FractaLSD PsychMyc

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    NYC
    FlavRX used pesticides? Kinda not surprised, despite their labelling. I feel they are all over the US, and for a San Diego brand, i guess theyre involved in some shadier stuff than some other companies. But hey. My state doesnt have dispensaries really (just a monopolized one that only accepts terminal diseases, only allows their trademark oils, and no smoking, no actual bud, no edibles even allowed)

    I do like the 710 King Pens the most prolly. Altho FlavRX makes claims such as "no glycol, all natural, 100% "ultra?"-refined cannabis oil" on every box. I havent seen an independent test label like ive seen with some other oils/mmj

    As far as New Mexico, if you have dispensaries at all, thats awesome. My state just has a thriving greenery/oil/wax black market. Basically, alot of states have "infant" MMJ programs, or just one that havent really been set up to serve the state's actual stoners. And im sure they will all function soon enough. This state-by-state "one christmas light at a time" thing def helps to build momentum, and actually opens the market in a much more dramatic way, but ultimately its strange that in one state, cannabis and especially extracts are "drugs", in another, nothing to even look at twice, just medicine.

    the main reason people use c02 carts around here: definitely mostly to be discrete

    PS: crazy that LA Patient care givers was found selling plants with pesticides. I always loved that place when there on vacation. Back before cali went legal, they were okay with out of state ID. I told them how the place i got a rec from lied to me etc etc, they were always very nice. I go to LA on vacation fairly often, used to be my home
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  12. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,108
    We don't know what is in many of the products we buy. Food, beverages and medications all get bought on the word of someone else that the products are clean and up to spec. Don't worry, once full legalization and commercialization occur at the national level buying MJ products will be just as safe as A McDonald happy meal.
     
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  13. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,477
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    not very reassuring (are you being sarcastic?) ... i never get fast "food". the inevitable concentration of herb pesticides into the extraction is my concern, plus whatever "machining oils" are added/needed for a profitable process.
     
  14. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,108
    Sadly many commercial mass produced products are compromised (safety, quality, variety, etc) in the pursuit of profit. MJ and its derivatives will probably be no different in the final analysis as they move into the mass market. On the upside many problems are avoidable if one is willing to meet their own needs. Not reassuring but often reality isn't.
    PS: Me sarcastic never, well maybe sometimes.:)
     
    Hippie Dickie likes this.
  15. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    464
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    It is! And in all fairness I probably can't claim ugly step child status for NM any more. For a while we were the last state to get a medical program and ti was rather tenuous. More states have started up since then and I don't know what they are like.
     
  16. FractaLSD

    FractaLSD PsychMyc

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    NYC
    So apparently King Pen 710 (the ones I and someone else posted above), won 2017 Cannabis Cup. A specific strain, Gelato. But anyway, that tells me that its okay to assume they prolly dont have pesticides, like FlavRX
     
  17. Gn0sis

    Gn0sis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    150
    FlavRx is one of the shaddiest brands in the industry right now. Its no coincidence they are the most popular cartridge on the black market.... I heard from several sources that FlavRx is affiliated with the cartel.
     
  18. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    We really need to qualify our language more clearly here. Concentrates are not necessarily what we are talking about in this thread. Anything in an ecig tank that consists of resin emulsified in added solvents (or even additional terpenes not originally in the resin for use as a solvent) is best described as a tincture. It may or may not be more concentrated in potency than the flower that it came from.

    Many of you know that I use concentrates only, and swear by them as being healthier and more medically effective for my needs than flower. What I refer to here are straight, unadulterated concentrates. Cannabis resin that has not had anything added to or removed from it. It is only resin, only from cannabis.

    On the other hand, I do not use and would not trust ecig style pens with cannabis tinctures (or even straight distillates generally, which can be strictly referred to as concentrates) in them. Remember, large numbers of straight distillates that end up in these ecig tanks are regularly busted with high levels of pesticides etc. These distillates haven't even had solvents added to them (which we know are unsafe for different reasons).

    From an extractors point of view, I've said it many times:

    If you want to take some awful material that no scrupulous retailer would sell (and nobody in their right mind would buy) and turn it into something that looks like relatively clean resin, distill it. Many less than prudent manufacturers have already figured this out and in most markets, regulation has not caught up. Buyer beware is the order of the day.

    My advice is as always - don't buy products that are sold in ecig tanks if there is ANY other option. Even if there is no other option, NEVER BUY ANYTHING IN AN ECIG TANK IF THERE ARE NO TEST RESULTS for pesticides, microbials, residual solvents etc. Also as above, never buy anything with PG/VG/PEG/ethanol.

    Added terpenes are a challenge at the moment. The problem is not so much that people may use 'food derived terps'. If the terps are isolated sufficiently, they are the very same isoprene derived molecules that we find in cannabis. One problem can arise when either the terps are not sufficiently isolated and so other molecules from the original material are present. Another problem is when even perfectly isolated terps from cannabis or anything else are added in unsafe individual levels (ie: too much of a single terpene) or unsafe overall levels (too many terps as a total % of the entire product).

    Be on the lookout for unusually high spikes of a given terp. A lot of individual terps commonly found in cannabis can cause harmful side effects in higher concentrations.
     
  19. zenmasterofzinfandel

    zenmasterofzinfandel Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    73
    not a very good quote, no link to where 'stonedcali' got that story. Devil is *always* in the details. From the other thread by 'pressure' where there is supposedly a lab test on view in the post(which it is not, only an img of a kurvana cartridge box/packing), the original source for this is from KNBC los angeles:

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Marijuana-Pot-Pesticide-California-414536763.html

    references?


    Details, details, y do we even need to worry about that on a famous & informative site like FC?

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/investigations/I-Team-Marijuana-Pot-Pesticide-California-414536763.html

    And *far* more important than the article, is the follow-up response:

    http://www.nbclosangeles.com/invest...ults-Company-Statements-I-Team-414526923.html

    none of u lawyers/barristers and solicitors going to chime in? 'caught' does not = 'failed a test'; big, big difference/distinction! words matter.

    Flavrx was tested & passed in a regulated state: Oregon, click on the link to see the COA.

    Werx shop owner Jeff Raber was interviewed & u can see the vid in the link above
     
    Nexx9 likes this.
  20. seaofgreens

    seaofgreens My Mind Is Free

    Messages:
    696
    So let me get this straight. A newspaper goes into 15 different places and gets 44 random samples, of which 41 come back over the limit... but that is just the labs/newspapers fault because all of the companies released PR statements and one posited that the lab lied?

    A lab has no interest in generating false data, as whether of not it "benefits," them to false positive competition it also creates the possibility of ALL their data being suspect, and no self respecting facility would sell out their reputation for... that.

    Is it possible to get conflicting data based on the portion of plant/concentrate material tested? Yes, and that was made clear. Is it still troubling that 41 of 44 random samples failed? Yes it is... to some of us anyways, not yourself obviously.
     
    sanfranciscosadhu and shredder like this.
  21. disruptxd

    disruptxd Active Member

    Messages:
    101
    Hey what battery do you use? I'm looking at the [swan] https://smokingvapor.com/the-swan-vaporizer-3.html at the moment at it seems pretty enticing. Any recommendations? I'm looking for sleek, slim, and good quality.

    Also, what voltage is good for these type of carts?
     
  22. DrewVape

    DrewVape Member

    Messages:
    15
    Op that's why concentrate is being pushed. Raw herb will be a thing of the past soon.. States will illegalize organic Cannabis like they have with milk, because of the living microbiology that's not exactly exclusive to the soil..

    Producers are pushing processed herb for the very reason of being able to hide the quality of the source material and any additives.

    They create trends to match their commercial productions methods. "Clarity counts" is one that gets me.. Go dab some lab grade pure liquid THC and tell me it compares to vaping flower.. The effects arent there. Same with all concentrates, they are always lacking compared to the same source material vaped in its flower form.

    They are really pushing towards synthesized THC with fake terpenes if you want my honest opinion on the concentrate trend..

    I would say grow and process your own, but thats increasingly illegal too.
     
  23. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    767
    I don't think concentrates are "pushed" it's just the demand is changing.

    I've read herb sales are mostly to older folks now, with concentrates more popular with younger users.

    As always the times are changing. Not long ago the debate was joints or bongs. Now we have lots of choices, and I think that's great!

    And concentrates concentrate impurities too, and this can be caught by a good lab. And more materials are being tested now and labs are springing up everywhere.

    I don't think the future is as dark as some may think.
     
  24. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

    Messages:
    2,786
    This title is a bit misleading from the topic.

    I am fucking tired of all the bullshit fear mongering over concentrates.

    Tanks CAN be problematic with unknown additives... Buy safe tested material or make it yourself.

    For pens, I have found nothing that comes anywhere close to the quality from Evolab Chroma and Alchemy (colorado).
     
    herbivore21 and ensabbahnur like this.
  25. Vaporbabe

    Vaporbabe Member

    Messages:
    18
    No, you can't!, not unless you make them yourself or find a reputable supplier who makes Co2 concentrates! This is why I stick to clean grown herb, however, even then if you can't trust your supplier you could end up with rubbish!
     

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