Why is wasting vapor on YouTube reviews so popular?

[lazylathe]

@Alexis

I have been thinking about this thread and how you accused me of the same tactics in some of my videos...
This is one recent example:

Then i remembered that i almost always put the load size in the comments!
This video used 0,05grams of herb...
I think all of us micro-dosers that chase monster clouds should be in our own club! LOL!!!

For myself, this is my one test that all my vapes need to pass in order to stay in rotation!
If it takes more than my regular pinch, it had better perform as well or better, or else it goes on the shelf!

Just call me Mr EQ basketcase...

 

[Boden]

Still not convinced that holding in is better than the re-breathing technique, but I find the latter much more natural and comfortable, especially when doing it through the nose, makes for really tasty/smelly exhales when covering the receptors inside there.

We had that discussion extensively in another thread in the past, including IIRC some answers by guys working in the biology field. And I mostly recall the oxygen deprivation argument, the saturation and absorption rate which was time-bound and required fresh air supply and that re-breathing could be preferable.

But as always, whatever floats your boat!

Not sure oxygen deprivation is possible in 10-15 seconds. Maybe if you were vaping while running a marathon.

Plus when I’m holding it in I’m inhaling fresh air slowly at the same time.

Is re-breathing like circular breathing?

I do tend to exhale through my nose. Got the aroma receptors in the nose, might as well use them. Plus a lot of surface area for absorption.

@Alexis

I have been thinking about this thread and how you accused me of the same tactics in some of my videos...
This is one recent example:

Then i remembered that i almost always put the load size in the comments!
This video used 0,05grams of herb...
I think all of us micro-dosers that chase monster clouds should be in our own club! LOL!!!

For myself, this is my one test that all my vapes need to pass in order to stay in rotation!
If it takes more than my regular pinch, it had better perform as well or better, or else it goes on the shelf!

Just call me Mr EQ basketcase...

Ref video: I like it

Loving the idea of a completely extracted one hitter. I’m going to have to make something to do that with (and not burn myself/tabletop/chair/etc).

I get quite clumsy at night/when I’m tired.

The logvape design is the direction I’m heading, but supercharged (not really, no impellers will be used).

Disability is the mother of invention

 

[KeroZen]

With 10-15 seconds I don't know, but some users reported holding it until there's nothing left and they turned blue lol!

Yes the re-breathing is when you fill the lungs fully, then exhale partly through the nose, then re-breath fresh air until full again, exhale partly and so-on for a few times in a row.

In the past I did it more, now I only do it when a strain taste is particularly good and I want to fully enjoy it. So it's more for the increased smell/taste than for the possible increase in potency. Like @stickstones, I used to care about not wasting, but now I mostly don't care: I end up way more medicated and with less material than when I combusted, even when wasting, so...

For the coughing, I read several members (only in the USA though, might be a local practice?) who did it on purpose as they claimed it was getting them higher to almost choke on the thing... Personally I think it's more like masochism, but whatever...

 

[Tranquility]

Ya gotta cough to get off.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cough to get off

 

[stickstones]

We had that discussion extensively in another thread in the past, including IIRC some answers by guys working in the biology field. And I mostly recall the oxygen deprivation argument, the saturation and absorption rate which was time-bound and required fresh air supply and that re-breathing could be preferable.

Where was this conversation? I'd like to check it out.

This is from memory, so if it's important I can dig for it to confirm, but I seem to remember talking to Jorge at Minivap (who is more knowledgeable of vapor studies than anyone I know) about holding hits in, and after 5 seconds we have absorbed all we are going to. That's from the memory of my aging mind, though!

 

[Boden]

With 10-15 seconds I don't know, but some users reported holding it until there's nothing left and they turned blue lol!

Yes the re-breathing is when you fill the lungs fully, then exhale partly through the nose, then re-breath fresh air until full again, exhale partly and so-on for a few times in a row.

In the past I did it more, now I only do it when a strain taste is particularly good and I want to fully enjoy it. So it's more for the increased smell/taste than for the possible increase in potency. Like @stickstones, I used to care about not wasting, but now I mostly don't care: I end up way more medicated and with less material than when I combusted, even when wasting, so...

For the coughing, I read several members (only in the USA though, might be a local practice?) who did it on purpose as they claimed it was getting them higher to almost choke on the thing... Personally I think it's more like masochism, but whatever...

Turned blue!?...

It’s strange how some people seem to think I care at all about what they do at home. I don’t. This thread is about Reviewers only.

I just find it sad that reviewers (specifically) tend to go too far in the reviews.

Made up example: reviewer, who was clearly baked after two loads just keeps loading it. I don’t want to see someone completely faded trying to summarize a review.

Not so made up example: positive smash in her latest blog thing. Baked off her ass and hitting a tiny honey oil rig like a fiend. Coughing between hits, eyes watering. For the love of Dog, put the pipe down. I had to turn it off at that point.

I don’t understand the allure of that Jackass show either. Probably for the same reason.

 

[KeroZen]

It’s strange how some people seem to think I care at all about what they do at home. I don’t. This thread is about Reviewers only.

Never underestimate the professional thread hijackers that we can be!

Where was this conversation? I'd like to check it out.

Here are all the threads I found relevant to the discussion:
- Are clouds of vapor counterproductive? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/are-clouds-of-vapor-counterproductive.18198/
- Wasting Material? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/wasting-material.23516/
- How long do you hold your vapor in? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-long-do-you-hold-your-vapor-in.22716/
- Vapor Recycling Breathing Technique >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vapor-recycling-breathing-technique.16857/
- So how long do you keep your vapor in? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/so-how-long-do-you-keep-your-vapor-in.8042/
- How to Comfortably Hold Hits for 30-40 Seconds >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-to-comfortably-hold-hits-for-30-40-seconds.6441/
- How I conserve weed with my vape (10+ highs per 0.1g) >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-i-conserve-weed-with-my-vape-10-highs-per-0-1g.21965/
- Maintaining the High You Want >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/maintaining-the-high-you-want.9503/
- True or False: If you see vapor as you exhale you are wasting the hit? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/t...r-as-you-exhale-you-are-wasting-the-hit.4007/
- does more vapor production equal more of the good stuff entering the body? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/d...re-of-the-good-stuff-entering-the-body.23253/
- How to get the best hits from your vaporizer >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-to-get-the-best-hits-from-your-vaporizer.18270/
- How long do you hold your vapor hits for? >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-long-do-you-hold-your-vapor-hits-for.811/

It's all in there. Gotta look into the details but posts I had in mind were from @luchiano I think. I also saw in passing what you evoked from George @ Dynavap... ah no, you were talking about Jorge @ Minivap, sounds the same but not the same heh...

Ya gotta cough to get off.

And there's even an expression for that! Incredible!

 

[Tranquility]

Where was this conversation? I'd like to check it out.

This is from memory, so if it's important I can dig for it to confirm, but I seem to remember talking to Jorge at Minivap (who is more knowledgeable of vapor studies than anyone I know) about holding hits in, and after 5 seconds we have absorbed all we are going to. That's from the memory of my aging mind, though!

I've not done a search, but there are probably more modern studies than the one I posted here that might bring the time down. But, from that 1994 study:

Effects of breathhold time are of interest because marijuana smokers engage in a stereotypical pattern of extended breathholding, presumably to maximize THC absorption. Study 2 showed that breathholding boosts plasma THC 1evels, although this effect was statistically significant only in the high and not the low potency cigarette condition. Plasma THC levels increased with 10-sec compared with 0-sec breathholding but did not increase further with a longer breathhold duration (fig 2). The same pattern ofplasma THC levels seen across breathhold and cigarette potency conditions was reflected in the HR boost measure, which lends support to their validity. These findings are consistent with data from the one previous study (Tashkin et al. , 1991a) that examined breathhold effects on THC levels and found reliable increases in plasma THC levels when breathhold was increased from 4 to 14 sec. Thus, the plasma THC data suggest that the stereotypic behavior of marijuana smoking is useful for maximizing absorption; however, our study suggests there are diminishing returns with longer breathhold durations.​

 

[KeroZen]

Right, but does this translate from smoke to vapor readily?

 

[Tranquility]

Right, but does this translate from smoke to vapor readily?

When I did a Google search to find that first one, another came up that distinguished between smoking and vaping. The time considerations were [essentially] the same. The difference had to do with CO and other byproducts of combustion. If there is doubt, I can try to find it again.

 

[MinnBobber]

Where was this conversation? I'd like to check it out.

This is from memory, so if it's important I can dig for it to confirm, but I seem to remember talking to Jorge at Minivap (who is more knowledgeable of vapor studies than anyone I know) about holding hits in, and after 5 seconds we have absorbed all we are going to. That's from the memory of my aging mind, though!

................................................................................................
I think there was possibly a re-breathing thread with more discussion.

I found more definitive info on oxygen transfer in the lungs. That makes sense as that's the main job of the lugs and alveoli.
The most consistent number from several studies was that the lungs/alveoli only extract about 25% of the available oxygen inhaled.

"During normal breathing, oxygen content in the inhaled air is 20.9%, while in the expired air is 15.3% . Hence, 5.6% of air is extracted or captured as oxygen."
Lungs extract about 25% of the available oxygen.

I extrapolated/assumed that the lungs would not be any more efficient than that with cannabis, as oxygen is their main business So lungs only partially extract cannabis vapor goodies

Several sources indicate holding in cannabis hits for more than about 5 seconds, gets you little/nothing.

My thinking on technique for max extraction is max dwell time and max air movement: keep vapor in lungs for max time (but not in one hit) and keep vapor moving for max flow over cannabis receptors. This is accomplished by long slow inhale, hold for 3 seconds, slow 10% shallow exhale, slow inhale to full, hold 3 seconds, repeat.
With this , the vapor keeps moving to mate with receptors and vapor stays in lungs for MANY cycles/ for a long time.

I've still seen vapor after 14 "cycles" of same hit so it's been in there a long time and it has moved over a lot of recepetors.
And no, I don't do 14 cycles every time And that's with a 0.015- 0.02 load

I wish someone would do first class research on cannabis extraction rates/ rates with different breathing techniques,etc

 

[pxl_jockey]

@Boden & @anyone with a thought about these you-tube presenters:
In the OP, Boden says there's a problem with interweb reviewers saying the phrase "daily-driver". What is wrong with the phrase being used in public? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I genuinely don't understand why this phrase is harmful to the pro-cannabis camp?

 

[P.A.M.]

@Boden & @anyone with a thought about these you-tube presenters:
In the OP, Boden says there's a problem with interweb reviewers saying the phrase "daily-driver". What is wrong with the phrase being used in public? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I genuinely don't understand why this phrase is harmful to the pro-cannabis camp?

The relation of daily driver and driving "a vehicle" under the influence maybe ? Lol it's far out I know , lol , I wondered too when reading it but presumed it's what the OP meant ? Maybe seen too many vid's of @AJS blowing clouds in his car All good if arriving to destination , haha

 

[AJS]

Maybe seen too many vid's of @AJS blowing clouds in his car All good if arriving to destination , haha

I blow clouds in my car once I get to my destination. I appreciate the concern though

 

[Boden]

................................................................................................
I think there was possibly a re-breathing thread with more discussion.

I found more definitive info on oxygen transfer in the lungs. That makes sense as that's the main job of the lugs and alveoli.
The most consistent number from several studies was that the lungs/alveoli only extract about 25% of the available oxygen inhaled.

"During normal breathing, oxygen content in the inhaled air is 20.9%, while in the expired air is 15.3% . Hence, 5.6% of air is extracted or captured as oxygen."
Lungs extract about 25% of the available oxygen.

I extrapolated/assumed that the lungs would not be any more efficient than that with cannabis, as oxygen is their main business So lungs only partially extract cannabis vapor goodies

Several sources indicate holding in cannabis hits for more than about 5 seconds, gets you little/nothing.

My thinking on technique for max extraction is max dwell time and max air movement: keep vapor in lungs for max time (but not in one hit) and keep vapor moving for max flow over cannabis receptors. This is accomplished by long slow inhale, hold for 3 seconds, slow 10% shallow exhale, slow inhale to full, hold 3 seconds, repeat.
With this , the vapor keeps moving to mate with receptors and vapor stays in lungs for MANY cycles/ for a long time.

I've still seen vapor after 14 "cycles" of same hit so it's been in there a long time and it has moved over a lot of recepetors.
And no, I don't do 14 cycles every time And that's with a 0.015- 0.02 load

I wish someone would do first class research on cannabis extraction rates/ rates with different breathing techniques,etc

There are cannabinoid receptors in your lungs ?

@Boden & @anyone with a thought about these you-tube presenters:
In the OP, Boden says there's a problem with interweb reviewers saying the phrase "daily-driver". What is wrong with the phrase being used in public? I'm not trying to be a smartass, I genuinely don't understand why this phrase is harmful to the pro-cannabis camp?

It’s about metrics. To the anti cannabis crowd that sounds like “the way you smoke / vape weed while driving“, that is fodder to rally behind.

Vape terms like ADV (all day vape) are much harder to misconstrue.

 

[MinnBobber]

The lung's aveoli are receptors for cannabis and oxygen and all things inhaled. It all gets transferred to blood stream for distribution

When THC and the other active cannabinoids found in marijuana enters your lungs, the journey begins. Your inner lungs have millions of tiny pockets called “Alveoli“. The purpose of these tiny pockets is to catch oxygen or any other gases that are inhaled.

The Alveoli pockets are surrounded by tiny blood vessels called capillaries. This is the point where the THC and other compounds are transfered from the lungs to the blood stream

 

[YaMon]

I have been conserving and rationing weed for many years and have observed the undoubted correlation between instant exhale and greatly weaker effects, vs a 5-10 second hold. If weed was free Im sure I would just vaoe more, harder, and exhale whenever, to a point of course (I mean not being ridiculously wasteful, like chewing beef and spitting it out, just because you can afford it! )

@Alexis Same here with the hold, and reviewers definitely are showman.. Not only do I try to hold, but I also try to exhale as slowly out the nose as I can allowing those membranes to absorb and remaining goodness... I've heard those membranes absorb terpenes better than anywhere else

Then I hung out with some of my Cali friends and those guys throw stuff away after two vape hits. I was running around saving their leftovers because there was a TON of goodness in there and they were just laughing at me...'all the terps were gone!'

@stickstones Great imagery!

The Herbalizer is a really good example of a vape that generally doesn’t produce huge clouds but 15 mins later it will lay you out. The high is sneakier but feels more medicinal than recreational if that makes sense?

The big cloudy hits from my Vapcaps give me more immediate effects that are far sharper than my Herbalizer.

@Winegums I've gotten caught off guard and hit by massive hits from my Herbalizer, my VapCaps are just more consistent doing so

I think I would like the NVFP+SH (whew!) experience because of the infinite control given to the user through precise, repeatable temperature control and the speed of inhalation.

@pxl_jockey Cannot go wrong! #FlowerPower!

But I am tickled pink that anyone at all got the "Stripes" reference.

My name is Psycho!

I do tend to exhale through my nose. Got the aroma receptors in the nose, might as well use them. Plus a lot of surface area for absorption.

@Boden I suspect a lot of people are missing out on the exhale through the nose. I've been trying to stick with it and find myself wanting to see clouds, tough to get away from. Why the reviewers do not include this in viewer education is an over site.

It's heresy that reviewers say "Cheers" before a pull, I don't care for this at all as it associates vaping with drinking.. and that will not help with acceptance or image, not to mention there is so much more fucking wrong with fucking alcohol. Respect! -YaMon

 

[KeroZen]

To me this post from @luchiano is amongst the most enlightening in all the old threads I dug from the grave >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/maintaining-the-high-you-want.9503/page-2#post-392800

If you combine it with this other post >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-to-comfortably-hold-hits-for-30-40-seconds.6441/#post-244952

You can wonder whether the fact of holding your breath for too long wouldn't trigger the same reaction he describes for the smoke case, with the oxygen concentration slowly going down.

And apparently he believes that could be the case >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/maintaining-the-high-you-want.9503/page-3#post-393961

Another one for good measure >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/maintaining-the-high-you-want.9503/page-3#post-393343

Finally that would be the post where he convinced me re-breathing would be better than holding >> http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/how-to-get-the-best-hits-from-your-vaporizer.18270/#post-800136

Anyway, as I said, I do it mostly for taste and because it feels more natural and pleasant to re-breath by the nose rather than holding my breath, which requires an effort.

 

[Boden]

I blow clouds in my car once I get to my destination. I appreciate the concern though

I haven’t seen your channel yet. I’ll check it out tonight. Looks intriguing

 

[YaMon]

I use an inhaler for allergy induced asthma and the docs tell me to hold it in .. now I'm confused

 

[Alexis]

I use an inhaler for allergy induced asthma and the docs tell me to hold it in .. now I'm confused

Funny you should say that, because I actually RE-BREATHE my inhalers haha!

 

[Boden]

I use an inhaler for allergy induced asthma and the docs tell me to hold it in .. now I'm confused

Don’t be. They are confusing the absorption of an aerosol with absorption of a gas .

Both your inhaler and vapes produce aerosol not gas.

Do what your Doc says.