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Why is vaping high different than combustion?

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by Truth Seeker, Oct 26, 2019.

  1. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Why is vaping high different than combustion?
    It seems like a very stony high even with sativa dominant strains. Plus I notice the munchies are a bit stronger too?

    Does all this have to do with the release of properties in the cannabis at the vaping temps?
    I typically vape at 375 F and it's almost like a couch lock feeling where the high is like a chill high?
    Seems like not much can really get done after a vape session as everything slows down.
     
  2. FabulatorPoeta

    FabulatorPoeta Where has the time gone?

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    Location:
    here, there and everywhere
    @Truth Seeker Maybe lower significantly your quantity ? In my experience, the moto 'Less is more' is particularly true with vaping. Microdosing does it for me...
     
  3. Truth Seeker

    Truth Seeker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    THat's what I try to do....even at 4 inhalations it kicks in pretty hard. Lack of alertness, concentration etc. it's just a real stony feeling.....lol

    Vaping definitely works! maybe too well ponce your tolerance gets lowered!
     
    FabulatorPoeta likes this.
  4. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,863
    it is certainly the more concentrated terpene delivery from a vape compared to smoking as to the more noticeable effects... Also, vaping delivers much more acidic THC-a CBD-a forms to augment the expression of the decarbed THC/CBD .
    and l;ast and no way least- Air flow... usually the ritual of vaping involves much more movement of air in comparison to smoking it ( quick hits lest choke) ...
    all that air equates to better cannabinoid conversions ( COX/LOX) all leading into more access in our cells and the lung absorption capacities ETC....
    though smoking too is actually a form of vaping... that is how the compounds release with a cinder making them release nearby... the cinder kills anything it touches but nearby molecules will react from the heat... just like a vape heater to select how much temp - the distance from cinder would determine how much heat gets localized to the active compounds a few MM away... just mentioning so as not to make the two things seem that much separate .
     
    pxl_jockey, habitat-fc, joner and 4 others like this.
  5. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    5,166
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    The Full Spectrum
    Exactly! combustion destroys THC directly, but the radiant heat of a glowing ember will vaporize other goodies in proximity.

    I believe when it comes to vaping vs "combustion" effects, two key factors are decarboxylation rates (and probably their degradation pathways, THC => CBN; etc.)
    And temperature; regarding the activation of certain compounds that likely vaporize above the combustion point of the plant material. When you extract the resin from the plant matrix/trichome heads for a dab, it's very easy to see that there are lots of compounds that vaporize above the combustion temperature of the plant material.

    Suffice the say I think the real key point is that no single consumption method can actually retain the entire spectrum of goodies.

    :2c:
     
  6. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,863
    Smoking super oxidizes the entire process... this leads into extreme hydrolytic reactions in our cells ... using a lower heat point with a vape and no other smoke particles to cloud the expression- the vapor is more lively in a way, basically less oxidized over all .
     
  7. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    5,166
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    The vaporizer is effective for me; but I've worked with multiple chronic pain patients who don't receive adequate relief from vaped cannabis like they do from combustion. It's all really interesting to me.
     
  8. VaporWare

    VaporWare Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    Have any of them tried high-temp vaping like the FlowerPot’s “high rollers” club? I don’t think we’ve got temperature measurements from the bowl/flower at those high coil temps, but I’d expect the air temps to be beyond what you get with almost any other vaporizer. That does make me worry a little about it releasing things we don’t want, but it may also get some good compounds that we usually miss.

    Since you’ve smoked and used the FlowerPot at high temps, what do you think?

    Personally I find combining vapor with edibles to be the best for dealing with pain. I’ve never smoked, but I also don’t want to smoke so...

    Also, @Truth Seeker , I know other people have already said it but combusting destroys a lot of the compounds you’re trying to get, so vaporizing the same amount of flower will get at least twice as much of them into your body. If you enjoy taking more draws, smaller loads should help. Otherwise, just try one or two hits at a time and see how that does for you. From something strong like the FlowerPot, one or two is often enough for me.
     
  9. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

    Messages:
    5,166
    Location:
    The Full Spectrum
    Yeah, I demoed that one with them but it's been a little while, I'd kinda like to get another one and compare again.

    I agree about it potentially releasing good compounds left behind in other vapes, personally hits off the FP were on par with the strongest vapor I've ever had. Dab like in effect. But I'm not quite sure how much that powerful vapor translates to dealing with chronic pain as its not my condition, so I can only observe what others relay to me.

    I've had hits from the FP so strong I had to take a seat!

    I definitely agree, that's what I've relayed as well - vapor is nice for the fast onset time, but the duration of edibles seems a lot more practical for cutting through the edge on chronic pain sufferers.
     
  10. audiodelic

    audiodelic ... Bom Bhole !

    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Shiva's India
    In combustion a whole bunch of carbon monoxide , benzene and bunch of other toxins enters your body with thc, the body reacts quick and forms antibodies to these harmful carcinogenic elements. Thats why you feel this sort of light numbness.

    With vaping depending on temperature .... low to high you get way less toxins .... and you can go lower temperatures for a visual thc laden high and higher temperatures for a stronger body stone.
     
  11. stinkytofus

    stinkytofus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    691
    Smoking is strongest
    Vaping is cleaner
     
    audiodelic likes this.
  12. VaporWare

    VaporWare Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    Smoking releases compounds not found in vapor (including a lot of bad stuff) which may make it feel “stronger” to some people, but it can’t give you more of the same compounds found in vapor because smoking is literally burning a lot of them up...
     
  13. habitat-fc

    habitat-fc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    99
    Vapor is stronger as smoke is diluted with lots of non-psycho actives, vapor is a concentrate so it effects more than the same amount of smoke.
     
  14. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    The science says yes. But, I've never had to sit down after a vape inhalation.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456813/
    (citing https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J175v04n01_02)
    One of the first vapourizer experiments compared the emissions from multiple samples of vapourized or combusted research-grade cannabis (18).The vapour formed in the gas phase of vapourization of cannabis is composed overwhelmingly of cannabinoids with no significant pyrolytic compounds. Only trace amounts of three other compounds were found, including the terpene caryophyllene and two other substances of undetermined origin. Analysis of the smoke produced through the burned cannabis method, however, resulted in a much lower ratio of cannabinoids to overall gas space (12% of the total mass compared with 94.8%), with 111 total detectable compounds. Five of these byproducts of combustion were known polynuculear aromatic hydrocarbons, organic pollutants with known toxic and carcinogenic effects. The findings suggest that vapourization reduces the delivery of toxic byproducts associated with the use of smoked cannabis. A subsequent experiment addressed exhaled carbon monoxide (CO) (14). The researchers found a statistically significant difference between the increase in CO exhaled following smoking cannabis versus vapourization. The amount of exhaled CO showed little to no increase following vapourization compared with large increases following smoking, which would be expected for inhalation of a combustion product. These findings give further evidence that vapourization reduces exposure to gaseous combustion toxins.

    These results are consistent with self-report research, which suggests that users experience less respiratory irritation when using a vapourizer compared with a classic burning technique (5). After controlling for other known risk factors, using a vapourizer was associated with fewer reported respiratory symptoms overall relative to other burning techniques. Moreover, the study found a noteworthy interaction between amount of cannabis used and choosing to use a vapourizer on reported symptoms. The protective effect of the vapourizer on respiratory symptoms was greatest among those who used cannabis the most. These findings are particularly notable for medicinal users, who typically use more cannabis in both density and frequency than other types of users (1). Regular users appear to have strong intuitions about the potential for less respiratory irritation with the vapourizer. They report reduced emissions and perceived health benefits as two of the most prominent reasons for preferring vapourizers to smoked cannabis (19). Randomized clinical trials, in which users switch to the vapourizer, could bolster these data. One pre-post trial of regular users who reported at least two symptoms of bronchitis found that switching to the vapourizer for one month improved self-reported respiratory symptoms by a statistically significant 73% and FVC by a statistically significant 4.8% (0.22 L), with a trend toward significant improvement in FEV1 of 0.38 L (11.8%) (16). Suggestions to patients to consider choosing vapourization over burning methods appear to be worthwhile.​
     

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