Why go with a conduction device?

[Sativapo]

I own several excellent convection portables (Firewood 5, IMP, glow) that I prefer and reach for first. But I still use my omnivong with pleasure and like the easylly socked and smelless tube of the M in the airport between my euro prohibition nest countries. ( the corrector put prohibition nest I like it). I don't like the idea of the sticky wood next to trained dogs with trouble or confiscation. Also while Beeing mostly conduction it's fast strong and very effective flame or induction powered conduction with pure materials nothing like a weak ceramic chamber and heater close to suspect insulation. The common point with convection vapes is the tiny bit of convection there is and the importance of airflow / draw control and... effectiveness. And also offers a different vape signature that is worth changing to reset tolerance a bit. Salutations from me on holidays high with an M.

 

[rozroz]

Battery life is a huge component of a portable vape and conduction wins hands down on that score. Also the consistency of the vapor is significantly better with conduction, and you’re not going to worry about combusting. So it’s more foolproof and easier for novices or those who just want the same result every time.

The Pax is as expensive as it is because it’s framed as a premium product, with the slick design, ease of use, and accompanying app. The method of heating isn’t a part of the price equation in this case.

I do find a significant difference in the high I get from one heating method versus the other. With convection vapes, the high comes on slow, building in intensity to a peak and then waning, and I ride it like a wave. With conduction, it tends to come on all at once, stays at the same level most of the high, then tapers off.

The only hybrid I’ve used is the Fury 2, which is not a top of the line vape. It’s my least favorite of the vapes I currently own (Splinter Z, Dynavap, Dreamwood Glow, Fury 2), but I doubt that’s due to the hybrid heating. I’d love to try a Mighty but that’s a lot of money to spend for something I might not prefer to my current favorite vapes.

can you please explain more in depth why you think less of the Fury II?

 

[Monk Debate]

can you please explain more in depth why you think less of the Fury II?

Well for one thing, I can rarely clear a bowl in one session and the vapor output is meh unless I take very long draws. The flavor on it is also poor.

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

Well for one thing, I can rarely clear a bowl in one session and the vapor output is meh unless I take very long draws. The flavor on it is also poor.

I think poor is a very harsh word to describe the F2 flavor. Try the Pax 1 if you want to get familiar with poor flavor . The F2 I only used with the bent glass stem, and the flavor was good, just not excellent. The best way to describe it is "good but kind of muted".
Which is weird considering it's partial convection, hence the long draws. But I can get better flavor out my Vapcap and Alfa which are both primarily conduction.
IME, the Dynavap isn't convection at all. If it was, then I would be able to vaporize a small unground nug that rattles loose in the chamber, but instead I get nothing. I must get the material to thoroughly contact the chamber walls in order to vaporize it (either by grinding or by using a nug big enough to contact the chamber on all sides), otherwise it's just going to sit there not getting vaped.
The only pure convection vape I've used is the Sticky Brick, and I didn't even think that the flavor was better than my Alfa on low. It was different, and it was excellent, but it wasnt better (sue me). I actually prefer conduction because of all the reasons mentioned in this thread and because the flavor isn't inferior to convection flavor at all. Just different.

 

[Sativapo]

IME, the Dynavap isn't convection at all. If it was, then I would be able to vaporize a small unground nug that rattles loose in the chamber, but instead I get nothing. I must get the material to thoroughly contact the chamber walls in order to vaporize it (either by grinding or by using a nug big enough to contact the chamber on all sides), otherwise it's just going to sit there not getting vaped.

It's funny because I find the opposite. While I think vapcap is clearly mostly conduction, I can vape an unground nug in it. With my convection devices I need to fill at least half of the hopefully quite small chambers to have proper extraction. I agree there has to be contact with the walls in the vapcap but even a rattling nug has contact with the walls while you turn it. I do prefer to at least finger grind it though or crush it after the first heating (that clearly can produce tons of vapor if heated enough).

 

[Monk Debate]

I think poor is a very harsh word to describe the F2 flavor. Try the Pax 1 if you want to get familiar with poor flavor . The F2 I only used with the bent glass stem, and the flavor was good, just not excellent. The best way to describe it is "good but kind of muted".
Which is weird considering it's partial convection, hence the long draws. But I can get better flavor out my Vapcap and Alfa which are both primarily conduction.
IME, the Dynavap isn't convection at all. If it was, then I would be able to vaporize a small unground nug that rattles loose in the chamber, but instead I get nothing. I must get the material to thoroughly contact the chamber walls in order to vaporize it (either by grinding or by using a nug big enough to contact the chamber on all sides), otherwise it's just going to sit there not getting vaped.
The only pure convection vape I've used is the Sticky Brick, and I didn't even think that the flavor was better than my Alfa on low. It was different, and it was excellent, but it wasnt better (sue me). I actually prefer conduction because of all the reasons mentioned in this thread and because the flavor isn't inferior to convection flavor at all. Just different.

I had a Pax 1, and it was popcorn flavor all day every day so you’re right that the Fury 2 isn’t absolutely the worst. However, the Pax 1 was a long time ago so the Fury 2 had damn well be better than it.

 

[Verax]

I prefer convection for most of my regular use. The main reason I have some portable conduction vapes, is for use in really cold weather, on the mountains. I have found that trying to heat the air from say -10 degrees, in a convection portable vape is problematic. With conduction, the air itself does not need to be heated, so performance is a lot better under those conditions.

 

[Monk Debate]

I prefer convection for most of my regular use. The main reason I have some portable conduction vapes, is for use in really cold weather, on the mountains. I have found that trying to heat the air from say -10 degrees, in a convection portable vape is problematic. With conduction, the air itself does not need to be heated, so performance is a lot better under those conditions.

That’s a great use case for an all conduction vape I never would have considered!

 

[Ramahs]

I would be able to vaporize a small unground nug that rattles loose in the chamber

You can. I've done it. Lots of people report doing it.

 

[GoldenBud]

You can. I've done it. Lots of people report doing it.

So true. it works so great in a Dynavap!

 

[Verax]

I've done it too, and it kinda works, but I think it's sub-optimal. Ground herb is much better with Dyna imho. To me, the DynaVap is similar to the crafty/mighty, as a hybrid. It seems to me there is heat transfer through the metal tip acting as a conduction oven, and the rest is convection. From my personal experience, I would say it's something like 80% convection, 20% conduction; or something like that.

 

[GoldenBud]

I've done it too, and it kinda works, but I think it's sub-optimal. Ground herb is much better with Dyna imho. To me, the DynaVap is similar to the crafty/mighty, as a hybrid. It seems to me there is heat transfer through the metal tip acting as a conduction oven, and the rest is convection. From my personal experience, I would say it's something like 80% convection, 20% conduction; or something like that.

Dynavap 80% convection? from where the air comes into the cap? no holes for air i mean

 

[Verax]

Dynavap 80% convection? from where the air comes into the cap? no holes for air i mean

From the grooves under the cap, on the metal part of the stem. Air travels up under the cap, passes through hot metal parts on both the cap and stem side, then reaches the herb. Ideally, you want to leave a little air cushion between your herb and the cap to allow that pillow of air to be heated by the cap

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

I've done it too, and it kinda works, but I think it's sub-optimal. Ground herb is much better with Dyna imho. To me, the DynaVap is similar to the crafty/mighty, as a hybrid. It seems to me there is heat transfer through the metal tip acting as a conduction oven, and the rest is convection. From my personal experience, I would say it's something like 80% convection, 20% conduction; or something like that.

More like 95% conduction

The load is sitting in a metal chamber that hits vaporization temps. That's all you need to know. If the Vapcap were convection, you'd be putting herb in the condenser tube and it would vaporize just from you heating the empty chamber and drawing.

You can. I've done it. Lots of people report doing it.

I mean yeah, it can be done but it's like pulling teeth. I went though half a can of butane trying to vape it that way (exagerating). If that nug is small enough to rattle around, the only part of it that's cooking is the part that's touching the hot chamber wall. If there's any convection heating at all, it's very ineffective.

 

[Verax]

More like 98% conduction, 2% convection.

The load is sitting in a chamber that hits vaporization temps. That's all you need to know. If the Vapcap were convection, you'd be putting herb in the condenser tube and it would thoroughly vaporize just from heating the empty chamber and drawing.

That's a great test, yeah. The inverse would also be true. (and easier to test) Fully loaded chamber, heating the outside to bring it to temp until both clicks, and not taking a hit. After doing that a couple times, checking the material to see if it's been vaped on the outside of the chamber that meets with the metal. I have not done this, but I'm going to try it later tonight, just out of curiosity.

 

[seki]

The load is sitting in chamber that hits vaporization temps. That's all you need to know. If the Vapcap were convection, you'd be putting herb in the condenser tube and it would vaporize just from heating the empty chamber and drawing. That's actually a good experiment idea - see how well the material will vaporize in that location.

That's a great test, yeah. The inverse would also be true. (and easier to test) Fully loaded chamber, heating the outside to bring it to temp until both clicks, and not taking a hit. After doing that a couple times, checking the material to see if it's been vaped on the outside of the chamber that meets with the metal. I have not done this, but I'm going to try it later tonight, just out of curiosity.

I've done something similar, but with a glass stem:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/dynavap-vapcap.18853/page-1771#post-1391127

I experimented with using the VC as a convection device after trying a Milaana for the first time. As mentioned in the post, it worked ok, but I felt like the load size was a little small. I was considering purchasing one of @RogueGuy's stems and trying it out as well:

This one looks as if it would be able to hold a lot more material, but my only concern would be placing the screen close enough to heat properly, but far enough down the stem so that it holds a good amount of material.

 

[Plutonic]

I've done something similar, but with a glass stem:

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/dynavap-vapcap.18853/page-1771#post-1391127

Wow @seki, that is a great idea, you just blew my mind. Like turning the VC into a Vaponic or Elev8r. Good idea too to increase the metal mass by loading it up with a Dynacoil and SS tip. Microdoser that I am I gotta try it!

 

[hinglemccringleberry]

That's a great test, yeah. The inverse would also be true. (and easier to test) Fully loaded chamber, heating the outside to bring it to temp until both clicks, and not taking a hit. After doing that a couple times, checking the material to see if it's been vaped on the outside of the chamber that meets with the metal. I have not done this, but I'm going to try it later tonight, just out of curiosity.

Sometimes when I'm torching up my VC, I will see vapor coming out of it during that 2 second window between the time it clicks and the time I start drawing. Vapor escapes out of the little space between the cap and the tip grooves.

 

[Sativapo]

For me it's just both : it produces vapor just with the heating but also produces some with the heated air hitting the plant. Of course there is hot air providing convection with this design, it's just that hitting directly the steel that touch the plant with a torch does a lot of conduction to begin with.

 

[seki]

Thanks @Plutonic! I do find that I enjoy using it despite grumbling about the small load size. It's not pictured or mentioned, but I've also since found that using a fat mouthpiece helps with the draw a lot. I initially used it without, but I find I get better results with it.

Also, on the plus side, cleaning is even easier than using a VapCap normallly, as you rarely need to clean the tip, cap and dynacoil.

Edit: Apologies for veering so far off topic.

I prefer convection for most of my regular use. The main reason I have some portable conduction vapes, is for use in really cold weather, on the mountains. I have found that trying to heat the air from say -10 degrees, in a convection portable vape is problematic. With conduction, the air itself does not need to be heated, so performance is a lot better under those conditions.

I've had some experience with a Pax 1/2, VapCap and a Crafty during a Canadian winter, and I've also found that they seemed to perform well. During particularly cold days with the Crafty, I resorted to leaving it in my inner jacket pocket and attaching a whip with a glass mouthpiece to it.

Lately I've been reading through the Zion thread, and it seems like some of the beta team were taking their units out into some pretty extreme conditions. I seem to recall a posts about the Zion performing very well during an ice fishing expedition with below zero temperatures. Are there any specifically that have trouble with performance under cold temperature conditions?

 

[Gregori]

Why go with a conduction device?
There is one reason in my routine : no stirring.

 

[Ramahs]

I mean yeah, it can be done but it's like pulling teeth. I went though half a can of butane trying to vape it that way (exagerating).

Hmmm...weird. Mine took a slightly larger number of hits, and popping the nug out 2/3rds of the way through, and squeeze it so it instantly crushes into smaller pieces that go right back into the bowl/tip to finish it off.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a preferred method of mine...as I prefer a faster extraction, and less "work". But it is what it is.