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Why do millions love vapes, but some hate them ?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by Vapewithfire, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. Vapewithfire

    Vapewithfire Active Member

    Messages:
    107
    I already thought about, why millions love vapes, but at least some of them nearly hate them.

    Some say something important is missing, and it is not that comfortable. I don´t have this problems, but i red a lot of posts, that describe this problem.

    I guezz, with vaping, you could get up to 3 times more thc than normal bong smoking.

    But also it is possible to vape your weed that way, that you could get less thc compared to smoking.

    May be they inhale 90 % of the thc, but exhale immediately, and waste more than 50 % of it.

    Or they vape the weed not long enough, may be only 3 seconds, and most of the thc remains in the weed.

    ( Instead of normal inhaling, i inhale with my mouth nearly closed, like drinking with straw. That way i can inhale for 6 seconds, without exhaling too early and wasting a lot of thc )



    What can go wrong, when people vape ?



    Using too low temperature ( some euphorants or sedatives start to rise at 230° celsius )

    Exhaling too early ( vapour seems, like it is not really sticking in your lung, may be it takes more time... )

    Vaping weed not long enough ( vaping needs more time than smoking )

    Weed amount is too big ( vaping can give you up to 90 % thc, you need less than smoked, too much thc can become less pleasant )

    Less compfortable ( some vapes need much time to heat up or make strange noises )

    One big bowl instead of some little ones

    Some want to get stoned slowly and easy. Means they want to smoke little bowls,
    one after another, instead of one thc hit. Getting too stoned can become a real problem.

    Some don´t know that vapour contains more thc than smoke.



    Benefits of vaping



    1. Nearly no condensate ( if done right ). Remember smoker´s leg, lung or body, smoking hurts and kills everyday.

    2. Much more thc than smoking. ( if done right ).

    3. Some get a high, more pleasant than the smoke-high.

    4. Massive decrease of the risk to get one of those smoker´s diseases.

    Someone i knew, died at the age of 21, lung cancer. He was smoking very much cigarettes and weed.
    When he would have used a vape or at least the"screens", i guezz he could still live and vape with us.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2014
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  2. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    Because they are "ignorant", in the sense that they don't know any better. Not stupid but ignorant of what vaping is all about, how to do it properly, etc.

    Make it your cause to "educate" your buddies???
     
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  3. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD 宇宙

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    After smoking for a while, your body starts to associate the toxic shit from combustion with the high. Some people say it doesn't hit the body like smoking, I say bullshit. Crank my Solo up to 7 and load a nice stem of some dank indica through the bong, see if that doesn't sit you down for a minute...
     
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  4. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    I think you need to take a step back and observe this less as a numbers game and more as an example of human nature to truly understand the issues at play here. It matters very little what the tangible benefits of vaporizing are, especially since trying to quantify them in numerical or mathmatical terms are going to inevitably incorrect.

    The biggest factor keeping smokers smoking, is human nature and the cognitive biases that run our lives. There are people who you could eloquently explain every facet of vaporization to; only to be met with a blank star and a "why bother". It doesn't matter how many times you tell them about how much better the taste is, or how much higher you get. It does not matter what arbitrary value you assign to the ratio of THC in one method to another. These people are locked into their ritual, and that's not going to change until they are the ones to come to understand the benefits of vaping on their own terms, as it applies to them.

    The people who are willing to like vaporizing take no effort. You just need to pull out your vape, maybe give them a puff and tell them about this new, high tech way of smoking weed. The people I have met with open minds, just need the concept explained to them to have their eyes light up and their interest piqued. Past that point it's usually just the initial investment keeping them from going right to the store and getting their first vape.

    I think there are couple well known concepts that are driving the stubborn ones to react negatively or even with hostility to the concept of vaporizing. Specficially;


    • Confirmation Bias, Choice-Supportive Bias and Bandwagon Effect
    All three of these are totally separate concepts, but are related in their impact on the individual in this case. Confirmation Bias is the tendency to interpret information in a way that only reinforces your own preconceptions. Choice-Supportive Bias is the tendency to internalize ones own choices as better than they may have been, and the Bandwagon Effect is the well known tendency for a person to do or belief something because of the actions of the larger group.

    In this case, smokers are well ingrained in their daily ritual of smoking, and generally have been for a long time. When you offer them an alternative, even a better one, people have a tendency to associate smoking, an activity they know and have been doing for a long time as being the better option for any justifiable reason. It does not help that majority of "tokers" still smoke, meaning that when the person looks to the flock for guidance, they will see relatively few people vaping while the majority still smokes, further reinforcing their notion that smoking is the better option


    • Hyperbolic Discounting/Post Purchase Rationalization
    Hyperbolic discounting is the tendency for a person to have a stronger preference for more immediate payoffs than later payoffs, regardless of possible differences in value. Vaporizers are expensive things to people who are used to using cheap, disposable tools to consume their cannabis, and even if it is more cost effective to get one in the long run, that really does not matter to most people.

    Couple that with the fact that most smokers already have a collection of toking tools they have spent money on to smoke, this is a big factor in most peoples decision to ignore vaporizers. Post purchase rationalization sort of speaks for itself in this regard.

    • Reactance
    This is the most frustrating one. Reactance is the unbelievably common tendency for a person to do exactly the opposite thing that you want them to do - usually out of a perceived sense of lack of freedom of choice but it can be for many other reasons. Because of this, being impassioned or evangelistic about vaporizing can often have the exact opposite effect on a person, causing them to retreat from the discussion and lose interest in what you are trying to "sell" them.

    Because of this I have come to realize that if a person is not initially interested in vaporizing, I am doing them a disservice by continuing to push my preferred method of consuming marijuana on them. They will come to dislike vaporization on my account, having the exact opposite effect I intended. I have a feeling a similar thing is going on with the people in your circles who are no interested in vaporizing, and I don't see doubling down or becoming a vapor ambassador to them as being successful ventures.


    I think that it is fairly irresponsible to try to draw such a conclusion from what we understand about vaporizing, and from what we understand of your friends situation. While vaporizing is obviously going to be healthier, it's impossible to say that smoking is the only cause of that condition. I'd try to keep away from making such inferences as I feel it is both misleading and somewhat disrespectful. This is the sort of thing I would expect to cause a "Reactant" reaction to those who dislike vaporizers.
     
  5. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    2,855
    Vaporizing herb is a pretty new concept that's only been around a few decades (other then maybe using a Hookah) Smoking has been around for thousands of years. It may take a couple of years for the smoking world to catch up and most likely a lot longer i think.

    The constant reason I've heard lately is that vaporizers cost so much, but then you can pick up a wood VG for $45USD 0r a VG coil for $35USD and save that much or more in a week by stretching out your herb. So not the best excuse ...

    I think a lot of it comes down to people not wanting to change from what they already know. Smoking is easy and cheap and its hard for most to see the downside of consuming Marijuana the way they always have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2014
  6. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    Location:
    IL
    While I agree with pretty much everything you said, I do not think that millions love vapes, and only some people nearly hate them.

    In my experience, it's often the opposite. Millions love smoking because they are familiar with it, they know it "works", and it's not new and quite simply, many people are just stubborn assholes. :)

    It's the initiated that truly love vaping. The popularity of vaporizers is definitely growing by leaps and bounds, but to the general toker, I think more are skeptical of vaping, rather than advocate of it.

    I mean, people tie their whole perception of Cannabis and getting high with smoking. You know, that horrible burning sensation that means you got a "good hit", and the awful coughing spells, and that wonderful ash-tar taste that lets you know that it's cool to cash the bowl.

    How many times have you heard "I don't know/think I'm getting a hit" or "When do you know when it's done?"

    Those are questions that often result from someone thinking in terms of combustion.
     
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  7. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    I am soooo tempted to apply what you said above to a totally different subject but for the sake of not derailing this thread, I won't. Bummer............'cause I REALLY, REALLY want to. :bang:

    Great post, Centi.
     
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  8. Dr. Plutonious

    Dr. Plutonious Well-Known Member

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    668
    Here's my take on this whole thing since I've successfully converted 2 cousins to almost full time vapour users, sold a PD to another person as his first vape (that lucky bastard got such a deal too since i need money), impressed countless people with my vape and glass combos, and recieved MAJOR resistance from a lot of smokers.

    MY cousin who tooke to vaping most strongly isn't surprisingly an engineer. He first got the DaVinci and then I personally sold him my old Bloodwood HI. He loved the science behind it, immediately saw the benefits, and trusted my opinion as a major weed fan. Safe to say, he LOVES vaporizing.

    He's the most strong case of someone taking to vaping.

    Generally, the resistance I receive come in the form of topics like this:

    "What's the point?"

    "That's too much money to be worth it."

    "I don't like the high".

    "The vape doesn't work".

    "I don't get high".

    "There are no good portable vapes."

    It's funny though, these people often will say that the Volcano is legitimate, but dismiss all others (probably cause they've only tried a couple other crappy vapes).


    The biggest problem I've ran into is learning curve. That's what kills people interest in vaping more than anything. When using the SSV, Lotus, HI (with glass), of MFLB, my friends often got no vapour or they combusted. Why? They didn't care to listen to my technique. A quote that was used is "I just wanna get the stuff in me". If you have a standard SSV heater cap and are inviting someone over to use it the first time and they can't figure it out for 15 minutes, they are going to think it is shit. I had a friend who hated the SSV because all he ever did was pull on it as hard as he could and he never got any vape. I had another friend who torched bowl after bowl in the HI because they refused to listen to me on how to hold it in proximity to the weed.

    It's annoying but it is a fault of a lot of vapes. They have a learning curve and there are a lot of lazy stoners.

    It's a big reason why I got the EVO actually. Once it is to heat (after about 15 minutes), it will just create crazy amounts of vapour with little effort. I've been blowing new people away with it since they get to see huge amounts of vapour produced effortlessly.

    As vapes get easier to use, they will become more popular. Smoking is still easy since as long as it catches flame, you're good. Vapes are more finicky but better and better designs come out every year.
     
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  9. cityslang

    cityslang A taste on the tongue

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    447
    Yes even with the solo on 7 it's hard to get the full euphoria effect from the strains that give it more.
    For instance I vaped the other night and then finished off with a one sheet pure super lemon haze watched 8 out of 10 Cats on the TV and 10 minutes in the euphoria wave kicked in and it certainly wasn't Jimmy Carr!
     
  10. Curiousone

    Curiousone Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    315
    This^^

    Also when the price drops for premium vapes, such as Pax, Evo, etc
     
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  11. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    528
    I rationalized the price. By the 1/4 oz, an oz of CO rec bud is $440 to $700 ( at one overpiced shop).
    So spending what 1 1/4 ozs costs, gets you a premium vaporizer that provides a
    "lifetime of enjoyment" while the 1 1/4 ozs provides "fleeting pleasure" :)

    The vape machine is expensive but also will dramatically cut down on how much mj you go thru.

    Just my opinion and way to justify big initial cost....
     
  12. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    Location:
    America's Hat
    But that is not how the stubborn smoker is going to see it. They are going to see it as them needing to spend what they would on a months worth of getting stoned - to purchase a device, for which they will then need to buy more buds for.

    We know that it's a decent investment because of the efficiency of it - but we know that. The stoner who has never owned a vape before has to go by the testimony of others or find someone willing to give them access to a decent vaporizer to understand these benefits. And that's something many smokers don't want to do.

    The way I see it trying to find a "solution" to this "problem" is going to wind up with a lot of disappointed vaporists and a lot of frustrated smokers. It's human nature, there are going to be a lot of people resistant to the idea of vaporizing. People who are receptive to the idea take very little convincing, but by evangelizing vaporization to the stubborn ones is going to have the exact opposite effect that we want.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  13. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    It's that old lead a horse to water thing, eh?
     
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  14. OregonStoner

    OregonStoner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    38
    I am sorta an old timer and my group of friends are around my age (46). I vape exclusively and when I try and get a friend to switch to vaping here are the reasons for not doing so.
    1. They feel that the affects take too long develop. Most feel that smoking gives them the "desired affects" much faster than vaporizing.
    2. One friend told me that when he told his doctor that he used Marijuana, his doctor made it very clear to him that smoking thru water (bong) was the healthiest way to consume his MJ.
    3. Some believe that the Volcano is the only real quality vaporizer. They can't however justify the cost of the unit.
    4. They find contradictory information online. (Some sites say the best vaping temp is xxx and another site will state a totally different opinion), (Some sites say it is absorbed faster than smoking while other sites claim you need to hold the vapor longer than smoking)
    5. They don't like the warm-up time required for most portable vapes.
    6. Some gave vaping a shot too many years ago when units like the BC vaporizer were being recommended and sold. They were so turned off by the experience that they refuse to give newer vaporizers a look.
    7. A few others as an example, really like my Pax but then state, " I could never take such an expensive unit out in public or to events. I would be too worried about someone stealing my unit or the police confiscating my unit. It would not bother me losing a $10 dollar Zeppelin to the law or a pass around crowd but a $250 vape? No way.."
     
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  15. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    11,550
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Fuck !! Might as well crawl in my coffin now. You're still a freekin' kid. I was droppin' acid at Hendrix concerts before you were born. :cool: Old timer at 46? You gotta change that mind set..............NOW.........for your sake, or at the very least, mine. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  16. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    Location:
    IL
    :rofl::rofl: Holy shit.
     
  17. Vapewithfire

    Vapewithfire Active Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    One reason, why a lot don´t like vapes, is vaping with 200 ° instead of 230 or 250° celsius. The volcano goes only up to 225 °, that could be
    the reason, why some say, they don´t get really stoned by it.

    I lent my heat gun to someone, and when he gave it back to me, he told me that he gets more high and stoned, when he turns up the temperature. I use 250 ° celsius, because some sadatives and euphorants need at least 230 °.

    That´s why i recommend my Bong with heat gun. Cost about 70,- Euro.
    All you need is a big bowl, where you can place the gun in or at least on. A big one, I use bowls with caliber 30 mm or more

    [​IMG]

    In holland i learned, that i should start inhaling, before the gun is placed on or in the bowl, because the weed could fly away, when you place the gun on it, without inhaling. Just lay 1 pipescreen on the weed.

    When the gun is on or in the bowl, you can see the vapour rising and exhale before you take a smooth, long puff and keep it a while in your lung.

    Much more compfortable and easy, that way

    I got a steinel hl 1910 E, cost 50,- Euro

    Some even use it with a volcano bowl and balloonsysthem, but i don´t know if this is 100 % safe.

     
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  18. Frederick McGuire

    Frederick McGuire Aggressively Loungey

    Messages:
    2,784
    Location:
    The Land of Oz
    Most inexplicable reason I've gotten from a friend who doesn't like vaping:

    "I don't like the taste... it's so green tasting"
    Me, upon hearing that: :uhh:...:mental:

    This was coming from a guy who rarely even changes the water in his bong (I'd estimate he changes the water like maybe once a month?:puke: The water literally ends up black before he'll change it) so I dunno, I guess he just loves the taste of ash or something...:hmm:

    Oh, and another thing, I've noticed that most of the time it's easier to get someone into vaping if they don't smoke cigs.
    Maybe there's just something about combusting that lures some people in?

    I also think there's a laziness factor...
    I once showed a buddy my EQ for the first time (I'd owned it for ages, but never really used it much since I'm not too keen on bags, and i have way better whip/direct draw vapes) and he absolutely loved the idea of bags.
    I gave him the EQ to use for as long as he wanted, and after about 2 days he stopped using it and went back to smoking bongs...
    I asked if there was anything about the EQ he didn't like to make him stop using it so quickly, and he said "Meh, not really, but cones are easier" so:shrug:
     
  19. Dr. Soxhlet

    Dr. Soxhlet SOLO Vaporized Cannabis is my Best Medicine

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    Location:
    Washington State
    That is exactly the attitude of my daughters boyfriend when I introduced him to the EQ. It was:
    "Why don't you take that thing, sell it and buy a nice big bag of weed. All he cared about was how he could get more to smoke. The idea that the vape would save weed in the long run, was not to even be considered.
     
  20. DirtyBongWater

    DirtyBongWater Active Member

    Messages:
    32
    well his DR is miss informed ..lol smoking though water is actually less healthy then a joint..tar is thicker then the water and goes right through all sticky and stuff into your lungs ..

    Well ..did my own comparison between 2 vapes last night... by the way new vape user ..old school bong and joint user ..could call me a smoking OG lol .. well . i bought a plenty and daughter bought an extr. Q 4.0... Q is cool i must say and can do so many other things with it.. BUT .. when coming down to pure smoking in whip mode.. The plenty blows it away ..not even close .. !! well that is my review on 2 vapes that are popular.. i have smoked out of cheap vapes..and honestly for anyone thinking of vaping..dont waste your money .. they suck lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
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  21. max

    max Bingo Coordinator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,310
    Do you have anything to support that, other than your opinion? I can't say I see where you get significantly more tar through water, and water will definitely filter particulates that would go straight through a joint.

    People make unhealthy choices every day, for various reasons. They don't believe something is dangerous/less healthy. They don't care. They think any damage is temporary, and they'll 'get healthy' at some later point and all previous damage will be erased. You're dealing with human nature and others in this thread have explained it better and more thoroughly.

    This isn't a vape comparison thread. In fact, discussion of specific models isn't even allowed in General Vaporization. That's spelled out in the section subtitle.

    As for your statement that cheap vapes suck, that's flat out wrong. I can name a number of very inexpensive models that work very well, and are considered anywhere from good to great buys. I think it would be a good idea for you to review the rules page, since you're new here, especially the part about expressing opinion as fact. Staying on topic is also important, and your vape review has nothing to do with this topic.
     
  22. KimDracula

    KimDracula Active Member

    Messages:
    9
    I've got an EQ and I love it, but that Plenty looks like a great vape. If I were a bit less broke or were buying my first vape now I'd probably go with that one. The chamber for the ground bud looks perfect. Whereas the bowl on the EQ is cylindrical with heat rising only through a rather small opening in the middle, the Plenty has this awesome circular chamber that looks large but shallow. I know this thing must produce some nice thick vapor. I was wondering about the ease of adding water filtration, though. I've got a nice little AquaVape attachment for the EQ. I much prefer using water with vapor than going dry.

    I think that CentiZen has pretty much nailed it when it comes to the resistance people offer when the issue of vapor vs. smoke comes up. It's mostly confirmation bias, that tendency to be "reactant" and contrary, and laziness. There's also that issue of the learning curve for some vapes and the fact that vapor does seem to hit you a bit slower than smoke, but it's only a matter of a few minutes, I believe. I don't really relate to these things myself as I was really excited to vape once I started doing some research on all the different units available today. I had only seen cheap dome vapes before. I do, however, see these conversations play out again and again with some very stubborn smokers. I really think that if people were truly open-minded about vaporizing and gave it a fair shot, most of them would ultimately prefer it. When it comes to flavor, efficiency, and better breathing, there isn't a better way to go.
     
  23. Dangermouse

    Dangermouse Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    England
    Well I was a heavy joint smoker, would consume 2oz a month.I switched to vaping after an operation so I had a week of no cig smoking whilst I was bed ridden.Boughmut a Puffit X as my first vape (bad choice I cannot recommend it to anyone), I thought wow a portable with a forced fan will be like a mini volcano so wrong in hindsight. I didn't enjoy it or get high unless I had 4bowls in a row,I bought a Plenty vaporizer as well it was made by the people that make the volcano so I thought quality with brand recognition.

    I was happy with the Plenty (it came with a free Vaponic too :), Vaponic better for me than a Puffit) I liked the amount of vapor produced and despite not getting the same high I knew it was working because I was coughing so much.I see FC and join and buy a solo (love it), read about vape bonging.Buy a bong and glass 18mm adapter and wow its great.

    I lent out the Puffit to a few friends they don't like it, they like my plenty but not enough to splash the cash again as others have mentioned its a mind set of I could spend the cash elsewhere going on.They try the solo hooked up to my perc bong and well they like it more than the plenty.Point is every friend that combusts really likes a vape bong and ive converted one to buy a Solo (he wants to quit smoking and stay nicotine free).I am hoping when my LSV gets through customs (its been sat there 3days on my tracking) I can convert another with a bigger hitter.They ask how I afford the vapes and I say my usage has halved and the spare cash goes towards a new vape although did use much more material till I got used to the vaping experience.
     
  24. DirtyBongWater

    DirtyBongWater Active Member

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    32
    The results, published in the journal Respirology, i dont make crap up ... anyway sorry about the hq vrs plenty thing ..maybe we should both do more reading *W*

    taste..is what i was afraid i would lose by vaping.. and with all the medical advancements comming with the legalization of it for medical use.. they are doing a great job..taste is awesome..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2014
  25. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,550
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    I read your link (not quite sure I understand it all) but from what I do understand, I don't see the above link supporting your statement that, "smoking though water is actually less healthy then a joint".

    Secondly, when a mod asks for qualification to substantiate anything that you may say, he/she is NOT implying that you are making anything up but rather, just asking for clarification. And it's not just the mods here that do that, but members here as well, so if you want to make your stay here a bit more enjoyable, you may want to get used to being challenged. It's kinda what this site is all about. Just thank your lucky stars that you're not a manufacturer. ;)
     

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