Whith all the knowledge here..why not..
- Thread starter AMiA
- Start date
The ultimate vape would be portable, the idea that the ultimate vape would need to be plugged in like a desktop would make it not the ultimate vape. Cannabis does not deserve to be chained down.
Seek
Apprentice Daydreamer
There is not and nevečr will be an ultimate vape for several reasons:
1) Everyone wants something different from a vape, often things that conflits with each other, or different delivery methods. You can't make a vape that can do two opposite things simultaneously. If it could do everything, it wouldn't be simple, and simplicity is also a quality that a ultimate vape should have. I have 3 different vapes in my rotation, love all of them and couldn't imagine one vape combining everything I like about them.
For example look at the VapeXhale EVO and GrassHopper for example. They were both designed from ground up to be THE ultimate vape. But with very different goals so they are completely different. The EVO is the ultimate vape (in the moment) for vape-bongers focusing on the enjoyment of the experience and the GH is focused for stealth and packing the best performance possible into a tiny on-demand vape.
2) The word ultimate itself sets a bar on how great a vape can get. Progress of technology doesn't work like that. Our technology gets better exponentially all the time. Even if we built a vape that did something the best we could make it do, few years later we would be capable of even better.
As for the halogen bulb idea - it works great, Herbalizer used it well. But if you really want something ULTIMATE, it shouldn't have any drawbacks - and glass is very fragile, so it's not the ultimate material. This might upset the glass lovers, which I am too, but to be real - there can be and probably are even better materials for vapes that glass.
1) Everyone wants something different from a vape, often things that conflits with each other, or different delivery methods. You can't make a vape that can do two opposite things simultaneously. If it could do everything, it wouldn't be simple, and simplicity is also a quality that a ultimate vape should have. I have 3 different vapes in my rotation, love all of them and couldn't imagine one vape combining everything I like about them.
For example look at the VapeXhale EVO and GrassHopper for example. They were both designed from ground up to be THE ultimate vape. But with very different goals so they are completely different. The EVO is the ultimate vape (in the moment) for vape-bongers focusing on the enjoyment of the experience and the GH is focused for stealth and packing the best performance possible into a tiny on-demand vape.
2) The word ultimate itself sets a bar on how great a vape can get. Progress of technology doesn't work like that. Our technology gets better exponentially all the time. Even if we built a vape that did something the best we could make it do, few years later we would be capable of even better.
As for the halogen bulb idea - it works great, Herbalizer used it well. But if you really want something ULTIMATE, it shouldn't have any drawbacks - and glass is very fragile, so it's not the ultimate material. This might upset the glass lovers, which I am too, but to be real - there can be and probably are even better materials for vapes that glass.
yeah, i did that already ... i call it the Bud Toaster, aka The Herbal Cube.
also, a halogen light is an inefficient heater.
also, "ultimate" changes with evolving technology.
You know, With all this knowledge of the internal combustion engine, why not get together and build the ULTIMATE CAR???? Money is not an problem..just to make THE OPTIMAL one
What is the ultimate car? There is no ultimate, because everyone's definition of ultimate or optimal is different.
Halogen heat source? what about Mr Butterfingers who drops his vape every week? He's going to LOATHE that fragile heater!
What is the ultimate car? There is no ultimate, because everyone's definition of ultimate or optimal is different.
Halogen heat source? what about Mr Butterfingers who drops his vape every week? He's going to LOATHE that fragile heater!
Aimless Ryan
Came to read about grinders; fucked combustion
I'm having a difficult time understanding that thought. I think halogen bulb is the heater of the future (for desktops). It costs essentially nothing. It's ready to use within seconds of powering on. It's easily replaceable. It seems to be responsible for great taste.
I've had two halogen-powered vapes (Aromed and Herbalizer). Although I don't consider either anywhere near as good as the Volcano or Mighty, I consider this a result of imperfect use of halogen bulb.
Why even bother creating other heat sources when all you need is a lightbulb or flame? The $600 vaporizer is not a thing of the future.
EDIT: "anywhere near as good as" is not really what I meant. I think the Herbalizer is a freaking great vape. I may even prefer its vapor to Volcano/Mighty vapor. It just has what I consider a few minor flaws. Which S&B products don't have.
Last edited:
The Beagle
Bubbles & Bags
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
There are drawbacks to halogen, but it's true that recent developments like the bulbs optimized for IR emission rather than light (as used in the Apollo and Venus for instance) are better than the previous bulbs.
But it's fragile, not very efficient and rather slow (you need to heat the bulb itself first and then overcome the glass thermal conductivity, which is not a very good conductor, hence why most designs have some kind of heatsink outside the bulb), you need a reflector because half of the beam would be lost otherwise (and the reflector acts as another heatsink)
So if you have "unlimited" power like in a desktop, yes it's great, but for a portable it's not very efficient (and efficiency translates directly to battery life, which is a key point) And there's a lot of inertia in the system, making it not the best candidate for "on demand vaping".
But it's fragile, not very efficient and rather slow (you need to heat the bulb itself first and then overcome the glass thermal conductivity, which is not a very good conductor, hence why most designs have some kind of heatsink outside the bulb), you need a reflector because half of the beam would be lost otherwise (and the reflector acts as another heatsink)
So if you have "unlimited" power like in a desktop, yes it's great, but for a portable it's not very efficient (and efficiency translates directly to battery life, which is a key point) And there's a lot of inertia in the system, making it not the best candidate for "on demand vaping".
Last edited:
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Yeah i have to agree that the Herbalizer puts out the best quality vapor I've found. But also like said, there are just a few minor flaws (which i feel is the loading system/process)
One hit extraction can sometimes be difficult too. i find a lot of times i have to take an initial hit for some reason, then open the bowl and stir the herbs. The next hit (#2) always is what I'm looking for.
If we could just get this to happen while inhaling during the 1st hit it would make things much much better
ultimate =
- all glass air/vapor path
- PID temperature control
- battery power
Seek
Apprentice Daydreamer
-As I said, I'm sure there are even better materials than glass, and something so fragile can't possibly be ultimate. I love glass, but for example jsut from the top of my head - the minivap used teflon, wchich has very strong bods, so it can stand very high temps without fuming and its not fragile.
-PID is great, but I'm sure it's not the ultimate even today. If price was no concern, you could probabyl get even better results from some simple neural network.
-Current batteries are very archaic compared to the rest of our technology, we are in dire need for a revolutionary battery technology upgrade (and there are lots of them almost ready). Think ybout abattery that can't blow up, changes in seconds, hold charge for a long time, and possibly even weight almost nothing and be thin like paper. That would render any "ultimate" battery-powered vape designed today very obsolete.
-What's wrong with butane-powered vapes? I'm usre a butnae vape couln't be the ultiamte one, but they're not bad. AFAIK, butane burns into carbon dioxide and water and some butane vapes are great, designed to be safe and have the butane and exhaust isolated from the airpath. I also prefer battery powered vapes over butane ones, but can't deny that at least until the battery revolution comes, butane beats batteries in the "power storage" (bring a small can with you taht lasts for weeks) and "recharge speed" (a refill takes seconds). Until super-batteries come to market, butn ae vapes still have something special to offer.
Last edited:
The Beagle
Bubbles & Bags
That's why imho the idea of the ultimate vape is a bit silly: one of my main point would be absolutely no batteries, at least
One of the reasons why I think vaping is miles better than combusting is the differences among the various units and the chance to choose the right vape for the right moment/need.
on a chip? sure, that would be cool ... but i'll vape through a lot of trees before that happens.
my vape only became possible when i found the k-type thermocouple reader on a chip - the MAX6675 ... so two chips (plus 12F683 processor) for complete PID control.
i agree about PID being far less than perfect - it feels like something is missing in the algorithm, but i haven't nailed the problem yet. PID is always reacting, the D is just barely proactive - the error response curve should be more predictable/calculable. it nags at me.
re: batteries -
this is the A123Systems battery - doesn't charge in seconds, but with a 6A charger can recharge a dead cell in 15 minutes, for 90 minutes of vape time. LiFePO4 chemistry is super safe and more enviro-friendly. very little self-discharge - a battery pack holds charge for many weeks.
with 70A available from the batteries, my heater gets to 400°F in 15 seconds - but still needs a 90 second heat soak to get the trichomes open ... i find 120 seconds to first cloud acceptable. the 15 seconds is really due to the 16awg wire being the current limiter - the Deans plugs and pcb traces can handle the 70A current flow.
re: fragile glass - not so fragile in my experience, but they do break - fortunately vials and test tubes are very cheap. maybe material science will come up with a better product - graphene, perhaps? - but nothing beats an all glass air path - nothing!
MileHighHuman
Well-Known Member
Just want to add my 2 cents and say i feel like there are already other materials on the market better than glass. Glass isn't bad, but its not the best.
And then butane just adds another requirement. My vote is for super long last battery rather than butane, but thats my preference. Would you rather have only 1 super long lasting full charge or 1 bottle of butane? Its pretty much a toss up in my opinion.
And then butane just adds another requirement. My vote is for super long last battery rather than butane, but thats my preference. Would you rather have only 1 super long lasting full charge or 1 bottle of butane? Its pretty much a toss up in my opinion.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
little maggie
Well-Known Member
It's a mystery how it would be possible- plug in or portable? session or on demand? stealthy or larger? So far the tubo comes closest for me since it's both on demand and session. But the battery life is too short. If stealthy mattered to me that one wouldn't even be on my list.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
As many have pointed out, there is profound disagreement on a large number of aspects of vape design. I would never want a vape that contains any polymers, wood etc in any part of the air/vapor path. This excludes a large number of designs out there. There are some people that prefer wood for aesthetic purposes, they and I may never agree on what the 'ultimate vape' would be. Most probably want this to be a flower vape. For my needs, the ultimate vape uses concentrates, not flower! Others may differ on this too of course.
Last edited:
ambertrichome
Well-Known Member
An Evo with a stainless steel bamboo
MGG
Well-Known Member
Seibo (StoneMonkey55) Ceo of Vapexhale mentioned in a live stream that he was intending to make a portable Evo, but was considering it'd be more of a 'complimentary' device to the Evo. (which to me sounds sort of lame but i'm intrigued)
&^%$! ninjas!
i forgot to mention that i assume that PID temperature control includes a digital temperature display of the actual temperature ... even something as simple as a BBQ thermometer that costs $3.50 (from china, when buying 10, free shipping), which is what i use, to display the temperature of the hottest part of the heater coil. it instantly answers the question: hey! is this thing working? or is it just vapor-proof herb? ... sometimes science-y facts are dang useful.
kellya86
Herb gardener...
Pretty much this for me, but id add that I want it to be unbreakable, quite small, and as hard hitting as a proper evo....
Fuck the laws of physics...
The evo can be used as a 1 hit wonder or a sipping session...
And handle concentrates...
So it's not too far from pleasing all the people...
Is it...????
Or a vape with a lazer heater and a nuclear fuel cell..
Aimless Ryan
Came to read about grinders; fucked combustion
I won't buy an EVO because I already know it will break. Been there, done that (Aromed). Cost me too much money the first time.