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What makes cannabis medical?

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by C No Ego, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    948
    Cannabis most definitely can make depression significantly worse for some people. That can be a result of it worsening the feelings themselves, and/or being used as a crutch which can often make symptoms much worse when the high goes away.

    What about the fact that it's supposed to ease anxiety/stress, but can also raise both of those things to unbearable levels for some people. There are lots of people who won't use Cannabis because it makes them feel terrible. Does that make it a logical fallacy to prescribe it as a potential treatment for those things? Every drug has different effects on each individual, especially when it comes to psychiatric issues.


    As for Cannabis and the ECS... there seems to be an assumption here that Cannabis use balances our ECS. That's not necessarily true. It affects it, obviously, but doesn't necessarily balance it. That would take consistent dosing at a specific amount, in people who have hypoactive EC systems to begin with. Consuming cannabis whenever you want, and getting buzzed from it, is not causing perfect homeostasis. IMO, it's more likely to be putting it into overdrive than balancing it. If you don't have a hypoactive ECS, you are enhancing an already balanced system by ingesting extra Cannabinoids.

    Homeostasis doesn't cause a buzz. Depression, euphoria, buzzing sensations, enhanced relaxation, etc., are all signs of being out of homeostasis.


    Because chemotherapy saves lives. There are thousands upon thousands of people who would have died without chemotherapy.

    The modern medicine hate on this forum is ridiculous.
     
  2. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

    Messages:
    193
    it is the most probable cause in this case
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24598271

    there are more than 2 studies with different values and even more disagreement - the latest study i found claims the LD50 (=50% die at the dose) is 2g pure thc (for a 150 pound human) but it doesn't say with which delivery method...
    So are there more reliable studies about that? Ingestion and smoking/vaping should have different doses too
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  3. Squiby

    Squiby Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,705
    Even though there are varying amounts quoted, they are all beyond extreme doses and would be near impossible to administer. I guess you could ingest the 2 grams of THC orally or as a suppository, but any other method would surely result in loss of consciousness long before reaching a danger point.

    I mean, how much bud would be required to produce 2 grams of pure HTC anyway?
     
  4. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

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    193
    yes, the 50% dose is pretty unreachable (besides injection with a needle, which i believe was the delivery method for the study) and it's one of the safest drugs without doubt, still an interresting question tho, another factor is most values are for pure thc
    - eg there are dose levels that are only for 1% fatal(LD1), that should be lower, but how much...
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  5. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,641
    They report being concerned about possible health issues with recreational use of cannabis. It seems like even when they find effects they are far less than alcohol or tobacco.
    And then there's this study which is very interesting given the you posted:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27891823
     
  6. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Latest Headlines
    updated 12:26pm EDT

    Muted Stress Response Linked to Long-Term Cannabis Use
    July 31, 2017 — A new study reveals a dampened physiological response to stress in chronic cannabis users. This is the first study to examine the effects of acute stress on salivary cortisol levels in chronic ... read more
    Some folks gravitate towards cannabis because it helps to calm down their hyper anxiety. It doesn't work for everyone. I say use the an Indica to help calm - go slow and use small amounts.

    Pharmaceuticals have saved many lives. Back in the days when modern medicine hadn't been invented. People would die off at an early age because of an illness and no way to treat it. I'm thankful I live in the modern era. My mom wouldn't have lived to be 91 without pharmaceuticals.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
  7. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

    Messages:
    193
    @little maggie
    that part of the study "marijuana use was associated with a 60% increased odds of stroke" seems to be consistent with the study i posted, there are some hints for possible heart issues - it's just more likely to survive a stroke in hospital than at home, also chemo patiens aren't the best indicator to evaluate side effects (still better than none :) ). But in general both studies are far away from revealing true facts, it's still a lot to do...

    Btw those values seem reliable, although it's not from the newest edition:
    LD50 1270 mg/kg (male rats), 730 mg/kg (female rats) oral in sesame oil
    LD50 42 mg/kg (rats) inhalation
    From the Merck Index 12th Edition
    that would mean inhalation of around 3g pure thc will kill one out of two 150 pound humans, but it's still lacking the time factor... - the only scenario i can think of to reach that would be when a hash stash in morocco catches fire and u are sleeping inside of it :lol:
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
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  8. Silver420Surfer

    Silver420Surfer Well-Known Member

    No. NOBODY in that case study "injected" any cannabis. Forgive me if you meant another study, but I didn't see any that mentioned injection.
    That's how bad information gets passed along.


    Then tell me why does the USA have a horrible opioid crisis going on? In Maine, or Florda, for example, the dr's in TONS of cases...have shoved the hippocratic oath up their arses and shat it back out in the form of MASS overwriting of prescription drugs. Please...I lived, worked, drove by these "clinics" for years and watched with lines of junkies(Pharma-made junkies that is) wrapped out the door and around the block. This problem has been going on for YEARS, yet only now d
     
  9. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,641
    What struck me was the effect on health issues other than strokes:"Among hospitalized patients, marijuana use was associated with a 60% increased odds of stroke (OR: 1.60, 95% CI: 1.44-1.77) compared with non-users, but significantly reduced odds of heart failure (OR: 0.78, 95% CI: 0.75-0.82), cardiac disease (OR: 0.86, 95% CI: 0.82-0.91), or in-hospital mortality (OR: 0.41, 95% CI: 0.38-0.44). Among cancer patients, odds of in-hospital mortality was significantly reduced among marijuana users compared with non-users (OR: 0.44, 95% CI: 0.35-0.55)
     
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  10. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    It doesn't say but I'm assuming these people in the study regarding strokes that used cannabis probably were smoking it verses vaporizing. How many smoked ciggerettes? It might make a difference in the outcomes whether a person smoked, vaporized or ingested cannabis.
     
  11. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,699
    Chemotherapy kills more people than it cures.
     
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  12. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

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    2,641
    Does chemotherapy kill people or do they die because chemotherapy hasn't been effective?
     
  13. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

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    1,699
    The process itself kills people, but technically both situations occur. Most feel they have no option but chemo and jump right into it, especially with heavy pressure from doctors to start procedures as soon as possible. It's a devastating procedure and unnecessary with much more effective and less invasive treatments available and being practiced in other countries.
     
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  14. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    948
    Source?
     
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  15. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    3,401
    ..........................................................................................................................
    The title makes it sound like "muted stress response" is a bad thing. Reading the study, long-term cannabis users produce less cortisol in a stressful environment. That could very well be a good thing as cortisol is amping you up for fight or flight.
    Fight or flight response is not usually needed in the urban jungle where stress after stress after stress happens in daily life and continual cortisol injections are amping you up without a real danger present.

    Maybe that's why a cannabis user, when cut off in traffic will say to themselves----"oh he's a real jerk" instead of the non cannabis users' cortisol/adrenaline induced "I'll kill that son of a beotch, I'm gonna ride their bumper".....
    ..............................................................................
    And the supposed 2 deaths from acute cannabis were from SMOKING cannabis which has all the nasty toxic gross "slap you in face", "attention human body---you are now under attack by massive amounts of poisons, full alert, battle stations and amp up to maximum overdrive to repel these toxic invaders" response. And what do we say to that ?
    Fuck combustion !!!!! :)
     
  16. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,641
    What treatments done in other countries are you referring to that are alternates to chemo?
     
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  17. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    916
    I have been researching this for so long I cannot find hardly any of my references- but a LD50 dose study last year used like 9 grams of thc oil on a little tiny mouse to see what happened! the mouse was fine with no complications... I will find that study and post it here..

    all of those effects are completely dependent on the type of cannabis... the list is endless for the different bio-chemical variations offered from the plant with subsequent effects... when you see a persons seizures completely gone after using cannabis it opens the eyes and shows something healthy going on IMO.. because of all the chemical variation allowed in the genetics it is plausible that there is a combo for everyone if they know how to find it and utilize it for their personal cannabinoid levels...
     
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  18. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

    Messages:
    193
    that's a general problem with most studys...as is true determination of cause of death
    But maybe someone here knows someone who is able and willing to start a long term study on pure vapers?- this forum would be a great source for participants....

    That's just ridicolous hate against modern medicine, it's sick to complain about the many choices of treatment avaiable in the modern world, when in 3. world countrys ppl with ball sized tumors sit on the street begging for food money. If u prefer superstition over science maybe don't play with healt and focus on another sector - stick it to the evil energy concerns, watch some youtube about the bedini engine and power your house with that, thats pretty much the same level of pseudo science.

    No one is forced to take a treatment, there is always personal evaluation - my mom knew what she was doing as a pharmacist, she did 12 chemotherapys in 4 years, had to abort one who was working bc the vicious side effects were unbearable - she told the doc at least now u know a bit more about possible side effects for the study. There will always be some deaths in clinical trial phases, it's tragic but still it gave a chance and helped the cause - we are all profitting from that, so saying they did that on purpose is dishonouring those deaths with stupidity.

    Sure there are flaws in any health system of the world, @Silver420Surfer can't say anything about actual US situations (thats for Mr Trump to solve ;) ), have been living in DC a few years, but that was back in the 80s... - those days the dallas buyers club, was an issue... But yes, the injection nr was from another study, which critizised itself bc cause of death was clogging of arteries, besides it's an unreal delivery method to begin with. The merck values i posted seem more reliable...

    The body is a complex cascade of many different systems(from the view of classical system theory), ECS being one of it - but if u change over 100 values (all the compounds of the herb) in a complex system without understanding what one value does by itself, not even god could solve that mathematical task and predict an outcome. It's try and error, which can work but will never get u to the real optimum or deeper understanding what is going on. Thats why classic medicine starts with evaluating pure compounds by itself, it's a painstaiking long process that will take 5-10 years research with mayor countrys being legal.
    Even a fully understood ECS would be like saying i know how the generator of the power plant works, now i can manage the whole plant without a meltdown (only Homer Jay S. can do that :lol:)
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  19. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,699
    Most modern science (scientism, the new dogmatic form of science) is pseudo science. It comes and goes as new theories are hypothesized and tested, constantly changing. Much of what is taught in school via text books is peuedo science, such as the theory of evolution which is often presented as fact, despite being as factual as most poly/monotheistic religions.

    What about your hate against ancient medicine? Why all the disrespect to the medicinewoman, the herbalists, the foragers, the shamans, and the alchemists? The ones whose ancestors actually invented the practice of medicine and have actually been healing for thousands of years. American's love to believe they are technologically advanced over the rest of the world, but leading scientists, anthropologists, and
    archaeologists have concluded our society is no more linearly advanced than the ancient Sumerians.


    And Nikola Tesla discovered free energy long ago.
     
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  20. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    715
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

    While correlation is not causation (As has already been discussed by many in this thread.), there does seem to be a huge jump as modern medicine takes hold.
     
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  21. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

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    193
    :rofl: :lmao:no further questions and answers from me :doh: - there is a difference between fact and fiction...or as my art teacher used to say: believing is for the church eiter u know it or u don't
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  22. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,699
    Many are dropping before 60. The cancer rate of the United States is projected to hit 1 in 2. Many baby boomers are dying before their parents. I have medical journals from the 1800's and early 1900's that document life expectancy being much better than it is currently.

    You think Nikola Tesla is fiction? :shrug::\ The man is possibly the most prolific genius of the last 2 centuries, everything they teach about Albert Einstein was stolen from Tesla. :tup:

    I guess you wouldn't understand the lucrative profiteering concepts of suppressing free energy to capitalize off of every citizen... doesn't mean the technology doesn't exist lol :rip:
     
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  23. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

    Most people died in their 50s between the mid 1800s until the early part of 1900s. They couldn't treat Many lot of illnesses because of lack of modern medicine.
     
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  24. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,699
    What illnesses can we now treat? The single largest reason for improved life expectancy is developed countries is sanitation, not medicine. And regardless, our life expectancy is not necessarily better than developing countries now (avoiding topics like starvation) as many countries do not suffer from the deadly chemical onslaught we do. We are now over-sanitized and excessively germ free with all the toxic chemicals we use in all sectors of our lives. The average US citizen is so germ-free, most are now deficient in vitamin B12.

    Modern surgeries and procedures are extremely advanced compared to earlier treatments, I think many confuse this with medicine, when in fact it's the operating procedures available now which save many lives, not pills.
     
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  25. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

    Messages:
    193
    someone has to say it to you: u are making youself laughable with that :(
     
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