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Weight of Cannabis Flower

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by TommyDee, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I ran into an interesting dilemma over the past week.

    Since I started vaping some 5 months ago, I've learned that low grade buds cause me issues. So I am going for top shelf Blue Dream only. A decent ounce will last me a month. Typically fluffy and fuzzy makes for a full mason jar. Last week I ended with some heavy sticky stuff. I went for a 1/2 oz because it didn't look quite as savory as normal. At a 1/2 oz, it barely covered the bottom of the mason jar filling less than 1/2 the volume expected. Less than a 1/4 jar of what was considered top shelf.

    I figured maybe the weight would make up for some of the lost volume in the vaped herb. That was a pipe dream. It vaped up and clouded just like the fluffy stuff. One week in and the heavy stuff is about gone already.

    So you growers and other well-read cannabis producers; what makes a bud super heavy and sticky where the next one is super fluffy and still full of resin?
     
  2. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    Interesting question, but growing isn't a topic for FC. It really isn't.
    Have you been weighing your top shelf bud as you go along? Weight is more reliable than volume. It's easy to go through the top shelf bud, that's for sure. You might try weighing out your dosage for the day to get a more accurate idea of how much you are using.
     
  3. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    Buying herb for vape is what I was thinking. Understanding what makes a good bud for vaping and what seems to just go up in vape. Growers would understand what I am seeing best.

    As a vaper, I really like the fluffy buds. Even when I was combusting, I also noticed this reduced effect from heavier buds. There appears to be an inefficiency as mass density increases when vaping flower. Its probably great for concentrate.

    My dosing is very much long term effects based. Hard to distinguish what keeps my level where it is. I know when my level is lacking by maladies surfacing. The effects of a doubled dose for a week should have been much greater real-time but they weren't. This last week was unremarkable to previous weeks.

    Zeroing in on medical needs through cannabis is hard enough. I actually dread the monthly search for my next supply. Spent better part of a year just to get to the right strain and now I am getting to the brass tacks of choosing a couple of reliable farms. So this novelty of bud density kind of popped up in my quest to alleviate some of my monthly anxiety over my shopping trips. Each month appears to be a fresh crop to wade through. In this case my quest is for knowledge, or foreknowledge to be more precise.
     
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  4. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,657
    Weight and density go hand in glove. Dense buds weight more. Fluffy weighs less. The reason is mostly genetics. Wet buds weigh more too, but let's say the humidity is the same.

    As a caregiver filling bags they do look different. And the blue dream I grow is fluffy. It's something like 85% sativa.

    In general indica buds are more dense and weigh more. By volume a bag of bubba kush would weigh a lot more than the same volume of blue dream.

    But if you measured cannabinoid per gram I doubt that there's a huge difference.
     
  5. Planck

    Planck believes in Dog

    Messages:
    330
    Genetics? Seems that sativas are looser than indicas as well.
    I think some product is vacuum packed and thus compressed.
     
  6. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I've been buying Blue Dream long enough to get some sense of what it should look like. And in most cases yes, nice delicate bud and colas that fill a bag, so to speak. If that is the genetics, then a dense Blue Dream may be an off-strain or a 'branded' farm strain? I am finding that following a farm is tough for timing but consistency is what I am hoping to achieve. I've settled on two quality providers so far in a short study. Testing the others is becoming an exercise of running around town for smaller buys. I pretty much know within a day or two if the batch is 'worthy' of my vapes. As medicine, all Blue Dream seems to work wonders for me.

    Did you ever think we'd have this kind of problem to deal with :D What a life! :leaf:
     
  7. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    I understand what you are talking about. I think @shredder did a wonderful job of addressing the question without getting into growing.
    Do you get to see your cannabis before you buy? If not you can ask your bud tender if they have seen it, then select fluffy bud. You might also try a different grinder, or grind your dense bud twice if you want it fluffier. You might want to grind it finer using a finer plate. Are you keeping track of your humidity in storage? How dry herb is can make a difference in how long it lasts while vaping. Do you have a variety of vapes? Your denser bud might work better in a different vape.
    I wouldn't stress so much if you can help it. Finding strains you like is fun. You might find strains you like far better than those you have tried. It's a risk for everyone buying cannabis they haven't tried, but I can't think of many that I've tried that would cause regret. I just do more research and ask more questions, and I still get to try something new the next time. There isn't much else to do. You might find a strain and a farm you like, but varieties available will change. Growers have to provide what they think people will want, and some strains will get dropped when others are added. Are caregivers an option where you live? A caregiver might taylor the supply for you if they knew what you needed.
    I hope you have some fun looking for your favorite strains, and that you find many you enjoy.
     
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  8. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I appreciate all you suggest and most is not lost on me @Madri-Gal . I had a lot of fun when the state went legal only to learn there was actual medical benefit. Who knew, right:clap: I recently went to hemp to get flavor back into the mix. Alas, screwing with what works for me can end the relief I enjoy from debilitating issues I've lived with for over half my life. I am in a state of refinement where I need to achieve the most benefit with the least effort and cost, and a high degree of reliability. We don't reward true caregivers as you mean in this state.
    Fortunately Blue Dream is a strain that has founds its place with this state's farms. That is how I get to be choosy. I've accomplished a lot in 5 months with prior knowledge with regard to medical benefits. Vaping was a setback until I got things managed. And I only have 2 vapes, LB and VC. A TinyMight will be added when they become US stock. Already tried Blue Dream rosin and find that simply a waste. Being strain dependent, I am well off with Blue Dream. I can try similar profiles to zero in on the exact compound that is working for me but that can come later. That is a long term and consequential experiment. I certainly don't have issues with over-dosing :p But I have a limited window in which I can partake on a daily basis.
    If this was purely recreational and I wasn't sensitive to much of the run-of-the-mill cannabis for vaping, I'd be having a blast :science: But that is not my aim. This is so I can function normally. At some point I'll have to put a few seeds in the ground.
     
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  9. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,296
    Yep, we are talking weight versus density (which will result in differing volumes).
     
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  10. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I forgot to expand on grind. All my stash goes through a standard metal screen sifter after the medium grind in a proper herb grinder. This removes the leaf-stems. Two different batches of Blue Dream from two farms and one 1-gram pile is substantially bigger than the 1-gram pile of the other. Neither has any cloud-vantage.

    The denser buds definitely had more concentrated resin where much of the good Blue Dream I've had the pleasure of partaking in is just about ready to crumble into shake with minimal drying.
     
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  11. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,284
    I find it interesting that you prefer the fluffier stuff. I've always found the buds which look and feel like mossy rocks to be the more potent varieties.

    Regardless of bud structure, though, a clear pre-vape eye test that seems to have a good amount of predictive validity in regard to potency, is how the bud moves when ground very finely. If you poke the pile, and it keeps slowly moving like MoonSand, as gravity pulls on it, it's often top notch. If it just collapses with no stickiness, it's often unimpressive.

    Also, strain names are next to useless, if you aren't buying buds produced by clones. Seeds, especially those from hybrids which haven't been bred past th F3 generation, often have a good amount of genetic variability.

    Furthermore, not only do people give the same name to two different clones from the same parents, they also give the same name to two different clones from completely different parents. There are so many "White Widow" and "Blue Dream" clones out there, which are no more related than any other two strains. It makes medical use far more difficult.

    Until there is some serious strain name regulation/unification, your best bet, other than growing your own clones, or vaporizing a small sample, is probably to go by the reported cannabinoid profiles provided by a reputable grower/distributor (I believe most places lie or otherwise rig their tests, but that's a discussion for another thread), and to pick strains that have similar chemical profiles.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  12. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    Yea, I get what you are saying. Sad but true. Clone-clones is what I attribute 'boutique' name brands and this is likely one of those.

    But I will defend the industry in our state to some extent with findings. I can't taste Blue Dream. I barely get a signal on the first draw. But throw a bad bud into my purchase and I know it in a heartbeat! If I taste anything 'familiar' it is not Blue Dream. I can taste every nuance from farm to farm for a short while. Therefore it has not strayed enough from the origin for me to detect it. It is a close adherence to the original profile that my medical need requires. Your post is why someday I may need to put seeds in the ground @EverythingsHazy .

    And yea, our top-shelf always squirms a bit after you shake it.
     
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  13. shredder

    shredder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,657
    Different farms means different grow operations. Its completely normal to have different looking buds. Even what part of the plant the buds came from makes a difference. Light intensity makes a difference, nutrients make a difference.

    If you ever become strain tolerant, find another sativa with a simular terpene profile and you may find that variety that works for you. Columbian Gold would be another to check out. I grow both and the people that like one usually like the other.
     
  14. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I did not test Columbian Gold when searching for strains. I'll have to compare their profiles. The close second at the time was a strain of Dutch Treat.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
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  15. uncanni

    uncanni Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    not here
    Genetics, growing conditions and moment of harvest. You can have the best genetics, but if the grower fucks up, harvests too early or too late, etc., the bud will be standard at best.

    What you're talking about is exactly why I love growing my own and I'd never go back to buying from folks who really care more about the money than they do about the product. Once you go home grown, you never go back. Growing Cannabis is as fantastic as vaping her.
     
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  16. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    Fortunately Blue Dream is a strain that has founds its place with this state's farms. That is how I get to be choosy. I've accomplished a lot in 5 months with prior knowledge with regard to medical benefits. Vaping was a setback until I got things managed. And I only have 2 vapes, LB and VC. A TinyMight will be added when they become US stock. Already tried Blue Dream rosin and find that simply a waste. Being strain dependent, I am well off with Blue Dream. I can try similar profiles to zero in on the exact compound that is working for me but that can come later. That is a long term and consequential experiment. I certainly don't have issues with over-dosing :p But I have a limited window in which I can partake on a daily basis.
    If this was purely recreational and I wasn't sensitive to much of the run-of-the-mill cannabis for vaping, I'd be having a blast :science: But that is not my aim. This is so I can function normally. At some point I'll have to put a few seeds in the ground.[/QUOTE]
    I appreciate that you have a strong preference for Blue Dream, and it's your body and you can be as choosy as you like. You just might have an impossible situation finding exactly what you want on a regular basis. I recently read about a journalist that went to six different despenseries in one day, and bought six samples of " Blue Dream". None looked alike, and none was the same. If you can find a grower, or grow your own, you might be able to get more consistancy. That is, if the seeds or clones are the right " Blue Dream". It was on my grow list last year, and will be this year, but I'm curious if it will be the same plant.
    Good luck with finding your Dream strain. It must be awful having such severe restrictions on what works. Maybe you will find a farm you like that will continue growing Blue Dream as long as you need it, and a nearby dispensary that carries it. You'll have the most control if you can grow, but I get that not everyone is into gardening, or able to do so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
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  17. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I really wish I could be more choosy. I do appreciate everyone's input. I'll just have to maintain a larger stash so I can walk away when things look or smell questionable.
     
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  18. Madri-Gal

    Madri-Gal Child Of The Revolution

    Messages:
    865
    Location:
    Livin' in the 707
    It's nice to end up with 2 grams of keif, isn't it? Do you think the trichomes are somehow bigger in one gram of Blue Dream? Or that more debris got through your screen? Was one pile greener than the other? It's good you have a scale. They help, don't they?
    Choosy is just liking what you like. It's fine to have a preference.
    What do you see as the solution?
     
  19. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    I have a feeling it is more the tricomes became matted resulting in a resinous mass. It wasn't necessarily bricked because stems and a few water leafs were still present and intact. It was just dense. Broken up into duff it looked identical. On the scale it was very different. And therefore I expected more vapor density. Maybe some increase, but not 2x. A VC was still vanquished in 3 draws. The resulting effects, average.

    I will continue to expand the farm-consistency study for now. Also do a better job of keeping stash on hand. And going back right away when you find something that hits the mark. I've been doing that with specials but I need to expand that practice.

    I've known, going on 3 years now, that BD is the right strain for my condition. Pain was easy to manage. Learning I could manage debilitating muscle cramps was a wake-up call. That requires some seriously done ABV to get those meds to work with vaping.

    I don't know who is managing the genetics in this state's farms but I have to commend them. If this strain went bunk, so would my condition. Before vaping, any bud would do. Cheap worked as well as top shelf, as long as it was from Blue Dream genetics. The flavor blindness I experience has been a great guide to off-strains or even infiltrated buds into the dispensary stash. Basically all the relevant receptors are saturated. T-brakes are not an option. There is no AMA cure or management for my condition. I could have it a lot worse ;)
     
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  20. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,284
    One thing I could think of, that could lead to one batch being heavier but not producing more vapor, is water content. The water would evaporate with the first hit or two, so the vapor production wouldn't change too much. You could test the water content difference, by taking a sample from each batch, weighing them, drying them out completely, and then weighing them a second time, to see how much weight was lost by each. If the heavier batch has a higher water content, it should lose more weight.

    In my experience, when you find a batch that is particularly potent, the difference in vapor density and potency is noticeable not only by feeling, but also just by looking at it (if you use a water-piece, you can see the difference in both the density and the volume of the vapor produced by each GonG load).
     
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