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Watercure - A journey from schwag to 'not bad'?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by AGBeer, Jun 1, 2010.

  1. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    Well recently I learned of 'watercuring' via a discussion here regarding ABV. Well, intrigued I searched the interwebs and most of what I found was posts from a couple of years ago and on sites in which I wasnt an active member. So - you guys get to read it :) (Yer my favorites) In a nutshell, watercuring is a fast way of curing (regular) buds and is usually done at harvest time. The buds are submerged in water, thus flushing them of all water soluables (not THC) oh things like chlorophyll, salts, mold, chemicals etc. In my readings I read that it had some success with poorly cured brick schwag such as this. Worst case it will go into brownies.

    At any rate, here goes. And trust me, this is a slapstick not so scientific way of approaching this.
    I told my buddy that it didnt matter what he got me - the schwaggier the better. And he delivered. Grade A brick that has been compressed to all hell, and tastes not the best in my vapes. (Not to mention its a huge shock to stumble across this when Ive had med grade shit for the past couple of months)

    [​IMG]

    I measured about 19.2g of total material (I pinched my buddy a bit as well as his other bud) The brickedness was stuffed in a jar and covered with bottled water as its readily available around my house.

    [​IMG]

    The buds floated to the top but thats okay. I pressed them down a couple of times to ensure they would soak up water and swell. The jar will remain uncovered for the duration of this experiment and I will change the water daily.

    Within the first 10 minutes I took a peek and the buds are beginning to expand and the water is turning a nasty brown color. (They say this is normal) but its kinda neat to watch it happen too!

    More progress to come.
    P.S. Mods - dont mind the question mark on the title. I didnt put this in Ask FC because its more of an experiment than a question :)
    PNWMMJ likes this.
  2. tdavie

    tdavie Unconscious Objector

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    Keep it coming AGBeer. Really interested in the progress of your experiment. Do you have a specific idea of how you are going to dry this stuff?

    Another question; do you think that what you got was Mexican brick weed?

    thanks fer posting this.

    Tom
  3. aero18

    aero18 vaporist

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    Would that cause trichomes to fall off? Would a prior sifting work be more beneficial?
  4. HeySlick

    HeySlick Well-Known Member

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    You go AG sounds like a cool experiment.
  5. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    Yes, Im pretty sure that this is classic Mexi-brick (Im from AZ originally so I saw it countless times) Now, throw in the fact that Im East Coast now, so this brick had some extra time to sit and wait while it made it to my hands. I kinda figure I have nothing to lose. Worst case it goes into brownies :) But from what I have read, the buds are devoid of all flavor (which is shit now) but the THC is more concentrated as you will lose some of the mass that was flushed.

    This will be a 7 day experiment (as they say this is the sweet spot for flushing the buds) and the water will be changed daily. As far as drying goes, it was suggested to use a dehydrator on low - I plan to use an old brewing trick that we used to dry fresh cone hops. Normally you would use the air conditioning in house filters (but that would be too big here) - What I plan to do is maybe cut the padding out and make a little 'pouch' to put my wet buds in. From there it will be taped to a fan which will help dry them nicely in a few hours. Ill make sure to get pics up of my setup when I get closer to that point.

    Next pics will be of this nasty water on day one... :o (Yeah, its pretty wild stuffs!)
  6. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    i'm with aero18 ... this is the first step of making bubble-bag hash, to knock off trichomes and strain the water through filter bags.
  7. StickyShisha

    StickyShisha Well-Known Member

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    that is done with very cold water and agitation.
  8. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    Yes but this isnt making bubble out of my schwag. This is a totally different experiment. I know that I may lose some of the trichs during this washing but from what I have read, the amount is so insignificant its not worth the bother of straining them. This wash is also kept at room temp (as its warm as shit in my house right now) so I think that having less cooling will help keep them from breaking off during the process.

    I guess the whole point of watercuring is to take the schwaggly characteristics out of my brick. When all is said and done, the weed will be lighter in color and have almost no smell/taste whatsoever. The upside is the fact that it will be much smoother (I actually plan to combust a small amount to compare as well) and a higher THC content as other solubles have been "washed" from the bud. I dont believe the trichs are water soluble so this should be close to a non issue. (Besides this weed was shit to begin with) :ko:
  9. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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    1,780
    lets face it, brick weed has already lost many of the trichs before you get it. Hope it works out for you, my only concern would be mold or the like.
  10. bcleez

    bcleez Well-Known Member

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    You can't increase the THC content. THC isn't water soluble but that isn't how bub hash works, the THC just breaks off and is caught in micro filter bags.

    I think it really lays in the growers hands to cut N 2 weeks before harvest and flush properly.
  11. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    Im not saying that I am 'increasing' the THC but decreasing the mass and composition of the bud itself (therefore inadvertently 'increasing' the THC)

    Mold *may* be an issue, but I think that the watercure will significantly help this if it is in fact an issue. From what I have read, WC is best with fresh material, but success has been seen with the same stuffs I am using as well. (But then again these are old postings and it IS on the internet) :)

    Im interested to to a side by side comparison when this experiement is completed. Like I said, worst case = brownies and a week without vaping sub par weed.
  12. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    735
    As long as he doesn't move the bud around vigorously he won't knock the trichomes off. Just make sure the water isn't cold or warm so you don't freeze the trichomes which makes them dense and heavy which will make them fall off easy especially if you move them a little in the water which creates a lot of resistance and weight to the light trichomes. If the water is warm it will melt the trichomes which is what you don't want also.

    Water curing is good for smoking because it takes away a lot of unwanted chemicals which makes the smoke more concentrated with thc which is why it is said to make the herb more potent but it also takes away the oils which give each bud it's certain high. It's perfect for putting in cigarette paper and smoking with no one knowing because it has no burning weed smell. As for vaporizing I don't know if it is worth doing. This experiment may help us find out.
  13. aero18

    aero18 vaporist

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    It might be worth doing to take out as much impurities (fertilizers, pesticides) as you can. Vaping these chemicals might not be so good.
  14. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    Okay, day 1 was a real eye opener... The weed has now swollen as its full of water, and the water is brown. When I smelled it earlier in the day, it still smelled 'earthy' - kind of like hay (kind of like how mexi-brick smells) FFWD to this evening when its time to change the water - it stinks. Now kind of like rotten hay. I know people said to expect this in the first day, so its not a total shock. It also had some weird shit floating on top too! Enough with the vapey blabbah - here are the pics

    Brown water
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  15. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the pics. I hope you are well rewarded for your efforts!
  16. aero18

    aero18 vaporist

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    Location:
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    After reading about the smell and seeing that disgusting film floating on your water, I am considering just water curing all of my bud from now on...
    Roger D likes this.
  17. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    735
    I think the stuff floating may be oils because if you look at the water without the bud there pieces in there that look just like coconut oil does when it's put into water except it hardens up, I don't know the texture in the pic.

    It may also be some proteins because the thca synthase enzyme is water soluble. I know I get stuff like that when I soak my beans over 8 hours and the longer I do it the thicker it gets but it's mostly air bubbles.

    The brown stuff may be flavonoids, other phytochemicals, and minerals. I say this because green tea makes the same color and green tea is basically like brickweed meaning it's not fresh and has gone through a slight fermentation which is basically what oxidated weed is also known as brick weed or schwag.

    Keep us informed on the experiment. You should take little pieces to puff and see how the bud changes as you go along to have something to compare the outcome to.
  18. GreenLeaf

    GreenLeaf Well-Known Member

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    yeah it seems like an easy way to get moldy herb.

    I can see why you'd h2o cure if you are making bubble hash but why do it to perfectly good herb?
  19. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    If you really want to get funky with this exp and eliminate the mold fear - put it outside. Mold is threat to INDOOR stuff. Dont believe me? Take a piece of bread and put it outside. Mom nature has some wonderful ways of killing shit like that. (Hence why outdoor mushroom grows rarely if ever get mold)

    But I digress :)
    More pics tonight of the progress
  20. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    7,600
    I've never water cured, but read up on it a few years ago. I thought it would be great if I wanted bud that didn't smell. But I got a few thoughts and questions.

    I was thinking what beez was thinking earlier...lost trichs will not be much of an issue with brick weed, as there usually is diddly squat on the surface. The brickweed I get doesn't vape well because there is not much for surface thc...it's all within the plant. So I wouldn't sweat losing trichs with this shit. My research led me to believe that thrich loss wouldn't be an issue with good shit either, as thc and their waxy coatings aren't water soluble (but some could be shaken or bumped off). Which leads me to a question for luchiano...

    I heard that water curing will get rid of smells and aromas (making it not as attractive for vapers loving the taste), but I had never heard of it causing the high to be compromised. Is it true that water curing weakens the high, not just the aromas?
  21. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    I think the high would be 'enhanced' as you are washing the water soluable stuffs and not the THC. I started with 19.2g dry weight when I started and Im sure that this weight will decrease post drying. This leads me to believe that the THC will in essence be 'more concentrated' as you are removing some of the other materials. This is new to me as well, and I cant wait to get my results posted (good bad or indifferent)

    One post I read was of someone doing an experiment close to this one.
    1 part headache inducing, smoke 2 joints to feel anything brick schwag to a nice smooth flavorless/odorless blend that gives you a nice high. Of course this was with smokers and not the vapor crowd. I plan to try both and report my results.

    One thing I AM interested in seeing is how this WC tastes/feels in my SV. I LOVE my SV but damned if it doesnt choke me everytime. It will be interesting to see how 'smooth' this watercure makes my bud. Not to mention, I plan to use some of it for cooking - this may make the taste a non issue as well.
  22. Mckdenton

    Mckdenton Vaporoni and cheese

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    Thanks for doing this AGBeer, I'm stoked to read the results! :peace:
  23. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    735
    When I state high being affected I'm meaning the type of high like some sativas will give a euphoric feeling, which comes from the lemony flavored oils, while the musty or flowery oils may give the relaxed type feeling. Thc gives the high but the oils give the type of high. This is why aromatherapy works so good and those. same oils are in cannabis in even schwag unless it is just horrible and flavor is gone. I notice if I puff on schwag herb in a pipe doing counts instead of one long pull I can taste the little flavor it has.

    If you look up terpenoids and cannabis on google you will find talks on this subject. There was even a study on it showing that the oils make the thc more effective. I think it's because they cross the blood brain barrier so easy and they are the first thing getting there, being so light, that they get the brain going which means more blood flow and more thc.

    Try it for yourself. Get a food organic essential oil, use a SMALL drop in your bud, and cape at a low temp to avoid burning the oil. Then raise the temp to get the thc.

    On another day vape just the herb by itself and see for yourself.

    Make sure you get an oil that is safe to ingest and provides the feeling you want like lemon oil is upbeat, while lavender is relaxing.

    You can also just take something like chamomile herb and vape a lot of it with just a little cannabis and see how it affects the herbs high.

    Here is an article I found:

    Terpenoids and the different odors of cannabis

    by Shantibaba

    In this article we'd like to briefly introduce terpenoids, which are the primary aromatic compounds found in the essential oil of Cannabis.

    So what are terpenes?
    Terpenes are a large and varied class of hydrocarbons and are the primary constituent in the essential oil of many types of plants and flowers.
    The etymology of the word terpene derives from the Latin word turbentina, a concrete oleo-resin obtained from particular species of Pinus (Nat. Ord. Coniferae).
    Plant terpenoids are used extensively for their aromatic qualities. They play a role in traditional herbal remedies and are under investigation for antibacterial, antineoplastic, and other pharmaceutical functions. Terpenoids contribute to the scent of eucalyptus, the flavors of cinnamon, cloves, citrus and ginger.
    Many terpenes are derived commercially from conifer resins, such as those by pine trees.

    Terpenes in Cannabis
    Most people don't know that cannabinoids (like THC, CBD, CBG, ect) are odorless. Terpenoids are responsible for characterizing the aromatic profile of cannabis plants.

    The main terpenoids present in cannabis are:
    Myrcene: a monoterpene, is actually one of the major constituents of the essential oil of cannabis (did represent up to 60% of the cannabis flower essential oil in some varieties tested). It has been proven to have analgesic, sedative and muscle relaxant effects.
    d-Limonene: a monoterpene, is actually a precursor to the synthesis of other cannabinoids. Has been proven to have antidepressant and immune stimulator properties in humans.
    Caryophyllene: a sesquiterpene, has anti-inflammatory and anti-malarial properties. Has been isolated from a number of plants and spices including black pepper, oregano and cinnamon.
    Pinene: a monoterpene, gas anti-inflammatory and bronchodilatatory properties. Other known terpenoids of the cannabis plant include: Pinene, delta-3-Carene, phellandrene, cis-Ocimene, trans- Ocimene, Terpinolene, Bergamotene, Humulene, trans- Caryophyllene, Farnesene, Selinene, Caryophyllene oxide and many others...
    -
    Where can we find terpenoids in Cannabis?
    Terpenoids are produced in the same resin glands (called tricomes) that also produce the cannabinoids.
    In fact, when the development of tricomes commences, especially in the hairs distributed across the surface of the female inflorescence, the medically important cannabinoids and the associated terpenoids begin to appear.
    What is the cannabis flower essential oil?
    The essential oil is obtained by steam distillation from the flowers and upper leaves of the cannabis plant, is a volatile oil that is a mixture of volatile compounds, including monoterpenes, sesquiterpenes, and other terpenoid- like compounds. A pale yellow liquid, the essential oil is used as a scent in perfumes, cosmetics, soaps and candles. It is also used as a flavoring agent in foods, primarily candies and beverages (for example, cannabis flavored beer). (foto: steam distillation) The unique smell of each different cannabis strains, that ranges from bubble gum to skunk, from citrus to strawberry and from cheese to burned pine tree, are all created by the differences in the ratios of the various components present in the essential oil. So when we say that we prefer the smell of White Widow to the one of Super Skunk, we are judging mainly the differences in the smell of the terpenoids of those plants.
    Important discovery on _- Caryophyllene...
    In 2008 Dr. Jrg Gertsch, from the Institute of Pharmaceutical Sciences at ETH Zurich, has discovered that the substance betacarophyllene activates the cannabinoid receptor 2 (CB2) selectively. Its the first time that a non-cannabinoid compound found in Cannabis is proven to work on a cannabinoid receptor. This discovery could become instrumental in treating chronic illnesses, such as liver cirrhosis, Morbus Crohn, osteoarthritis and arteriosclerosis. In all of these diseases, the CB2 receptor and the associated endocannabinoid system play a crucial role in our bodies.
    Olfaction and behavior
    For humans, olfaction is a primitive sense, whereas other mammals, birds and insects rely predominately on their sense of smell for survival. Although smell seems far less meaningful to humans, there is an important link between olfaction and behavior.
    Is a sniff of coffee as good as a sip?
    A cup of freshly ground coffee is what it takes to get some people moving in the morning. But, according to a recent study conducted in Japan, it may be the aroma rather than the coffee itself that does the trick. As reported by the New Scientist magazine in 2008, scientists in Tsukuba, Japan, kept 16 laboratory rats awake for 24 hours, by keeping them in a cage filled with an inch of water, then exposed half of them to the smell of roasted coffee. After taking samples of the rats' brains, they found that the smell of coffee boosted the activity of key genes that promote cell survival in the body and reduce anxiety. Professor Yoshinori Masuo, who led the study in Tsukuba, Japan, said that when people drink coffee to stay up all night, just the smell of the coffee could alleviate some of the stress caused by sleeplessness. They said that chemicals extracted from coffee and pumped into the air may one day be used as a way of reviving tired people.
    Entourage effect on Cannabis
    The clinical contribution of cannabinoids different than THC, terpenoids and flavonoids to clinical cannabis effects has been espoused as an entourage effect (Mechoulam and Ben- Shabat 1999). While THC remains the most psychoactive compound found in Cannabis, all other substances present in the plant (in particular cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavonoids) also have unique properties that will ultimately influence the effects that Cannabis has on us. Many times patients using Cannabis as medicine have reported that a specific plant genetic seems to have better therapeutic properties on them than other ones available. When compared, those Cannabis varieties had similar cannabinoid profile (content of cannabinoids such as THC and CBD). So if the difference is not in the cannabinoid content, well need to investigate the entourage of other substances present in the plant to explain the difference perceive by patients. Definitely a long road ahead, especially because the cocktail of substances present in Cannabis is so varied and complex.
  24. combusche

    combusche Well-Known Member

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    88
    i'm glad you're sharing your experience, but from my personal experience as i'm sure you remember, be prepared to face people questioning WHY it's more potent.

    anyway, as a watercurer at least 20-30x over, and recently concluding a tremendously successful ABV watercure, i can tell you are on the right track. except, you need to use more water, much more. and i think i've found the perfect technique for conserving trichomes, my friend. pour everything into a coffee filter, staple it shut and immerse in a big tub.

    the purpose of soaking is not to extract any form of essence, but it is to leech out the water soluble nasties. and it is important you leave the container open to allow chlorophyll to evaporate, otherwise it will become very stale and reattach to your plant material. as such, it is best to have as much water to pot ratio as possible because in diffusion theory, the more water outside the more efficient the solute will diffuse out.

    additionally, 7 days is for fresh herb. i find that by using a lot of water, usually 4-5 days the water will stop turning and smelling.

    oh and it makes smoking the herb so smooth, it's amazing. in fact, i'd say sometimes it's even smoother than cold vapor.

    and don't smoke it in a joint, when smoking watercured bud always smoke it in a bowl because watercured bud burns very very very long. you'll see what i mean when you smoke it, the thing just keeps going. only when it becomes pure white ash that floats when you move that it's done.

    and no, watercured ABSOLUTELY does not "weaken the high". in fact, i'm smoking WC bud right this moment and i can honestly say it is way stronger high. less couchlock, much much stronger and more vivid cerebral high.

    i honestly love wc buds, and used to wc all the time but ever since i started getting chronics i started enjoying vaping them instead. but smoking wc buds is always a pleasure.
  25. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    Rock on and thanks for the advice and encouragement :)

    This is new territory for me (and many others) and Im glad to share the experience!

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