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Water piping your vape wastes a lot of THC

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by hades65, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. hades65

    hades65 Well-Known Member

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    There has been studies with normal bongs and they mention some of the THC gets left behind in the water. With vaping it would seem you would loose a lot of cannabinoids because you are not heating the material up as much and a little water cooling effect could reduce huge amounts of your active ingredient. Unlike with combustion the cannabinoids were heated up right at the temp where they became airborne. Add a little cooling effect and a lot of it I think would just stay behind in the water.
     
  2. the_germinator

    the_germinator Well-Known Member

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    Interesting idea and I would tend to agree.. never been a bong user till about 6 months before I bought the cano. However,It must still do the job, or people wouldnt use that method. Also, I think many people use that as an extra step of filtration, and it makes things easier on the throat. so it is probably worth it to lose some effects. You can always hit it one more time to make up the loss ;) if you have more herb that is
     
  3. CombustionJunction

    CombustionJunction What's Your Function?

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    I agree. To me, it's kind of a trade-off. Yes, you lose a little THC, but IMO, it's not enough to really make that big a difference. But on the other hand, you get some nice filtration.
     
  4. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    I'd be curious to know what would happen if the vapor were to travel through a cloud of warm mist instead of water, before it goes through an in-line cooler such as this:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. hereatlast

    hereatlast Well-Known Member

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    Not to be a stickler but I'd love to see the studies that report THC being lost in water. Further, I don't think its fair to apply any studies that are specific to combustion onto a vaping scenario. Just popping in to report that all of the above statements regarding the loss of vaporized cannabinoids in water (particularly the fairly sure-stated title) represent mostly conjecture, anecdotal evidence and reason, not scientific evidence.
    I'm not suggesting that cannabinoids are not left behind, just that the "it seems" and "I thinks" should and cannot hold real weight. Further, my pragmatic experience using water filtration has convinced me that the gained pleasure and comfort of using a bong/bubbler is more than worth it in my scenario. :2c:
     
    frosty234 likes this.
  6. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist of Borg

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    Hi HAL,

    I'm still a future vaporist so i'm curious, would you say that for you water filtering still leaves more THC in the vapor path than when you used to smoke it? In other words, despite the amount trapped in water, does water filtered vaporization beat combustion in terms of efficiency, so to speak?
     
  7. DevoTheStrange

    DevoTheStrange Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!

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    I think the amount of THC lost in water filtration is negligible. THC is not water soluble so only a tiny amount will stay behind due to cooling effect. The Vapor does not pass through the water long enough for it to have a drastic cooling effect.
    To be honest you will exhale more vapor than you will lose in the water.
    You cannot apply the same kind of thinking of combustion to that of vapor. The physics are different.

    when combusting using a bong and the likes is to achieve a higher amount of THC in your hit, ie more thc in a hit than in a joint. With vaporizing the use of bongs and water is to actually cool the hit and make it manageable.

    and unlike Smoke Bong Water. You can drink the water from the Vape Bong. It will be full of the terpenes and flavonoids, which heavily effect taste n smell of the bud.
     
  8. the_germinator

    the_germinator Well-Known Member

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    ....and there you go ^ :cool:
     
  9. hereatlast

    hereatlast Well-Known Member

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    I guess the point of my post Egzo is the following: unless we can measure such factors in a very precise manner and account for the multitude of variables at hand, I don't think any definitive statements can be made on levels of THC (don't forget the scores of other compounds as well, both cannabinoids and non-cannabinoids) via delivery from the perspective we (all seem) to be sitting in.
    That is to say Egzo, I, nor most posters on this site, are qualified and just as importantly, equipped to answer such questions.

    The efficiency question is a sticky issue as well, far too many variables IMO to give an answer worth anything. I can say definitively that I firmly prefer to use a vaporizer with the aid of water filtration over any other form of delivery.
     
  10. DevoTheStrange

    DevoTheStrange Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!

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    Location:
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    i also think the efficiency will vary from person to person. What may be efficient to one person may seem wasteful to the next
     
  11. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

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    you definitely lose some in theory, but it doesn't seem to be at all enough to notice it. I'm still going to water filter almost every time, the only difference i notice is that the vapor is cooler / smoother.
     
  12. the_germinator

    the_germinator Well-Known Member

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    i have used my bag with my bong (only a few times, then I broke it- cheap plastic one anyways), and it seems to work good, with ease of draw etc. However, since the thc/air ratio is light already, and the vapor is cool temp wise, I usually just hit the bag On the other hand, if I learned to milk a bong and fill it with more concentrated vapor, it might make for a stronger hit...hmm..anyboday try this with a bag / bong combo?
     
  13. hades65

    hades65 Well-Known Member

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    Being that in order to produce water vapor from a water pipe there has to be an exchange of heat energy and cannabinoids that are vaped are only a bit higher in temperature needed to suspend them in air. I wonder if a herb vaporizer with an added ultrasonic water mister attached to the draw tube would be a improved design. Probably too complicated.
     
  14. DevoTheStrange

    DevoTheStrange Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!

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    1,652
    Location:
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    could run a forced air vape and hook it up to a nebulizer or a CPAP. That would add water moisture into the vapor stream.
     
  15. hades65

    hades65 Well-Known Member

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    Good idea. You could attach the draw tube to the end of that standard nebulizer. Its purpose would be less filtration and more just cooling the hot air and cannabinoids when they come in contact with your lung tissue because your lungs would have a higher layer of moisture covering them.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. theamigo

    theamigo Well-Known Member

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    would it be possible to put tincture in that machine hades? i had that machine before for ashtma
     
  17. steiner666

    steiner666 Serial vapist

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    I tried doing a lot of testing with my ssv and n3rd bub on this. It seemed to me that, more often than not, I got a stronger effect when i vaped dry with just the whip than with water. This could be due to actives being lost because of water, it could be due to me getting more consistent hits (i get vape right away with whip, whereas with the bub i have to displace the air thats in it before gettin vapor), or it could just be a placebo sort of thing. hell, i even considered the fact it could just be that when i vape with just the whip, sometimes i suck a bit of fine bud powder through and into my mouth rather than it gettin caught in water, and that maybe this could create an effect? (some people eat abv, this could be similar).

    All i know is that, vaping X amount of the same herb dry seemed to hit me harder than through water, even though sometimes i get bigger hits with bub/tube. Its definitely nice having the filtration and cooling though...

    If someone out there has access to a mass spectrometer or something, please feel free to lay this debate to rest :lol:
     
  18. Revvy

    Revvy Well-Known Member

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  19. BL4sT

    BL4sT Well-Known Member

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    I'm a long time bong user. If something is lost in water, it's not noticable. Water or not, i'll get the same high if I take the same quantity! For vaping, i enjoy without water too now. Cheap boxes vape gives bad taste, but with Da buddha now, clearly another thing.
     
  20. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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    My only issues is that vaporizers were not of the same quality then as now. 2001 study I think on the vaporizers? Representing the vaporizer by the old hot plate vapes and a heat gun is not in my opinion a good representation of what vaporizers can do at this time.

    However very interesting study. Thanks.

    For me. I like them both. Bong is smoother and I recommend for people who want cooler draws. Both ways still get me to where I want to be but I believe its stronger to not use a bong with water. Nothing wrong using a bong without water just to get bigger draws either.
     
  21. Pappy

    Pappy shmaporist

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    2,278
    I can definitely confirm water and filtration does trap solidified vapor and particulates in the bong but as Devo and HAL said the amount is negligible. You lose vapor when hitting a vape straight FTM. I don't even think the log vape sippers consume anywhere near 100% of the vapor they inhale.

    Some vapor always escapes into thin air -- or a bong or bag-- that's the reality. So, you're not losing a thing! Lost vapor (THC) is a byproduct of vaping.
     
  22. Goodlife101

    Goodlife101 Living The Good Life

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  23. Nycdeisel

    Nycdeisel Well-Known Member

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    I have heard about this before, not with vapor in particular, but since vapor is more efficient then smoke, it may give reason to care even less about this.

    The amount of THC captured by the water is so miniscule, that, especially with vapor, it wouldnt really make a difference.

    Im noting that we are ONLY talking about THC, I didnt read the entire page yet(Oh, I will....) But I am aware that there may be other cannabinoids which are more water soluable, giving good explanation to those who report a different effect between when using water and when not.
     
  24. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    you're on the right track hades, but i believe that most of the people that vape bong are using vapes that they keep a a specific temperature that is well above THC's BP. i believe the preference for using a bong is to condense out the higher boiling actives so the hit is rich in THC and lower in the higher boiling actives.

    and they are still in the inhaled air, just condensed into droplets, which i believe the lungs can't absorb as well.
     
  25. OC513

    OC513 Dabaholic

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    up here in my tree
    All I know is one WDZ stem gets me WAY more ripped thru the bong than it does without the bong.....same amount of weed used and the effects are VERY different
     

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