1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

Vaporizing Tobacco (not e-cigs)

Discussion in 'Vaporizables' started by vtac, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. electricblues42

    electricblues42 New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Ahh, so it sounds like you would be basically getting a mostly PG throat hit and a bit of the tobacco with it.

    I had heard that before, but IIRC it doesn't change to the oxide in ecigs does it? Otherwise that would be a serious problem for the entire vaping community.

    ---------------------------------
    I tried vaping pipe tobacco at 480F and 490F on my Arizer E Q to test the 477F boiling point idea. To be honest it didn't feel any different as far as the nicotine delivered than when I vape at 446F and 428F and 410F (the arizers preset temps). It was slightly more harsh and at 490F the tobacco eventually started to combust. So I am not sure what that means, you are correct on the nicotine boiling point, but possibly the point that it vaporizes out is much lower. When I do vape at the "suggested temperature" for tobacco (350F I believe) I get almost nothing. No feeling nor barely any vapor, so I think the higher temperatures are needed. Around 410-440 seems to be the sweet spot on my E Q.
     
    riccyn and herbivore21 like this.
  2. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,278
    PG does turn into Propylene oxide in ecigs, this is precisely what the study I refer to found unfortunately.

    More of a problem still is the fact that the same study found that VG also leads to production of Glycidol, another probable carcinogen in ecig tanks. Both PG and VG were found to produce these toxic byproducts when used in an ejuice mixture, or just vaped straight without mixing it with anything else. It is a serious problem for the entire vaping community. It may be less of a carcinogenic mixture to inhale ejuice vapor than cigarette smoke - but they are still both demonstrably carcinogenic aerosol mixtures to inhale!

    Man we have not been acquainted here before, but those who know me around these parts will assure you that I am not so much an amateur on these topics. The boiling point is the temperature at which the vapor pressure of the compound (liquid) is the same as the ambient pressure (whether local barometric pressure or the pressure inside a chamber under vacuum). This causes the compound to leave the liquid phase and enter the vapor phase (vaporization). The boiling point is the literal temperature at which you can expect a thin film of a given compound to vaporize.

    If you heat a substance (especially a complex mixture of compounds) to a lower temperature than the boiling point of the desired active, a liquid solution will potentially have a cumulative boiling point (that is the entire solution will vaporize) that is lower, or higher, depending on the mixture of compounds and each of their respective vapor pressures etc. However when we are vaporizing dry tobacco, you then have many variables such as where the nicotine deposits are physically found in each granule/crumb of the mixture of ground tobacco and the temperature at the point that the heat source manages to impart to the material being vaporized (perhaps somebody more knowledgeable on the tobacco biology than myself might chime in on this?). You may find that even at lower nominal temps on your vaporizer than the boiling points from the scholarly literature, some nicotine enters the vapor phase due to uneven heating/nucleation points at various different sites on the load. This is what I'm talking about when I mention nicotine transfer efficiency variations above.

    The problems with vaporizing tobacco at the boiling point of nicotine are as follows:

    1. that temp might be hot enough to lead to combustion or pyrolisis of all/some of the load.
    2. Even where 1. is not met, we can reasonably expect that a much greater amount of nicotine will enter the user's body from the same tobacco as what would be expected to enter the user from combusting said tobacco (vaporizers do not continue burning off into the air in-between inhales, they also do not degrade or decompose the nicotine into other compounds to the extent that combustion/smoking does). One might be inhaling much more nicotine when vaping tobacco at the boiling point of nicotine vs combusting it.

    What I was suggesting above is that I believe that Phillip Morris' engineers may have considered this potential problem and decided to use a lower temp (so as to only partially boil some of the nicotine content out) and use a cloudy PG 'filler' rather than risk a product that gives people uncomfortable or even toxic doses of nicotine which are more difficult to dose for the user. I may be wrong on this of course, this may be coincidence.
     
  3. Vapppo

    Vapppo Vaping in Italy since too short!

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Somewhere - Italy
    Hi guys, i've been reading this thread as a new weed vaper. I recently received a VapCap and after some days of learning curve i can easily say that.. it's wonderful. Being also a former cigs smoker, i've tried to use the VapCap with tobacco in order to replace the 5-6 cigs i used to smoke. So the VapCap seems pretty good for tobacco as well, but as many of you have pointed out, tobacco does not produce much vapor when vaped and it's not as satisfying as smoking (as opposed to weed, which is much better vaped IMO). I've tried several kind of tobacco, but no one seems to the job (some better then others but still not good enough). I tried hand rolling tobacco, a pipe tobacco, cigars, etc. I also tried adding a drop of VG in the tobacco but it tastes sweet and VG will vape away pretty fast... so that's not the way to go IMO.

    Today i bought the HEETS from Philip Morris and i must day this really seems a good solution. I took the filter off and put the Tobacco in the VapCap, standard heating and i got a very good amount of puffs, very good amount of vapor and good taste for long enough.

    So the HEETS really seem to the job for me. I've a number of questions i hope someone here can help me figure out the answers:

    - how much nicotine is contained in thee HEETS? how much do i inhale while vaping them?
    - what's inside the HEETS tobacco? why does it vape better then standard tobacco?
    - i'd love to make my own tobacco and avoid buying the HEETS. Does anyone here have tried doing so? If yes, what do you suggest me to do?

    Thanks!
     
    banana_republic and Xelatsok like this.
  4. Xelatsok

    Xelatsok vapes tobacco modding the vapes

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Siberia
    Vapppo likes this.
  5. Farid

    Farid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    699
    @Vapppo have you considered using NET e juice in the vapcap (put a bit of cotton in the VC tip and soak with juice). The "heat not burn" technology being offered by big tobacco seems to just be tobacco with addititves like PG or VG to help produce more visible vapor. They probably add other stuff too.

    On a slightly different topic, I'm surprised nobody makes nicotine infused mint or other herbs designed for use in flower vaporizers. This would be ideal for people who are concerned about the risks of PG or VG (which was also covered by herbivore21), or for people who want to stealth vape nicotine with no clouds.
     
    Vapppo likes this.
  6. Vapppo

    Vapppo Vaping in Italy since too short!

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Somewhere - Italy
    Thank you for your input.
    I've tried using an e-liquid made of 70%VG and 30%pg on Cotton.. Nice vapor but too close to e-cigs sweet flavour and too far from tobacco. Is NET ejuice any different? I'm not clear with the difference between NET ame VG/PG. Thank you!
     
  7. Farid

    Farid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    699
    NET juices should have effects which are closer to smoking than just nicotine.
     
    Vapppo likes this.
  8. Vapppo

    Vapppo Vaping in Italy since too short!

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Somewhere - Italy
    I'm not sure how to find NET juices in italy but i will give it a try. I've been reading something about NET juices, it looks like they're more dangerous for health if compared to PG/VG, which also seem not be safe.

    Also, is anyone here able to cure tobacco with PG or Vg or Net at home? i mean does anyone manually add these substances to normal tobacco?

    Thank you all in advance
     
  9. Vapppo

    Vapppo Vaping in Italy since too short!

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Somewhere - Italy
    That was useful, thanks. How about nicotine presence? i could not find details about nicotine at the link you've kindly shared. Does anyone know how much nicotine is in the HEETS? I use to divide the tobacco contained in the HEETS in 2 equal parts which i then use in 2 separate sessions in the VapCap. Do you think i'm inhaling too much nicotine?

    Thanks!
     
  10. electricblues42

    electricblues42 New Member

    Messages:
    15
    Btw guys, I have actually tried putting NETs in my tobacco when I vape it. I later graduated from NETs to WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloids), which really do taste the best. And after that didn't do it I moved on to Nicotine Salts, and they seem to really hit the spot. If only someone could combine the non nicotine parts of WTA with Nicotine Salts...anyways, yes they are a must have in order to make the vaping a good experience. I am still using my Extreme Q with Prince Albert pipe tobacco (+ a drop or two of nicotine salts). Occasionally I use my Vapcap Ti but really the Vapcap doesn't hold enough tobacco for me.

    I do have to say though the best vaping tobacco experience I've ever had was a fake Chinese Pax 2 that I used cigarette tobacco in. It was just perfect, better than smoking. But I think the tobacco resin killed the electronics, or the cheap chinese ones just crapped out super fast. I'm afraid of ordering a real Pax 2 because what if using tobacco with it is what causes it to break? Then I'd just have to send it back over and over to Pax.
     
    Xelatsok likes this.
  11. Ohmie

    Ohmie Govrnmnt fund adult circumcision & frenuloplasty!

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    BannedAzz
    Yeah, I mix my herb with cigarillo tobacco like old habits die hard. i haven't switched to pipe tobacco cause Im familiar with cigarillo and know what brands I like. Are you guys telling me tobaccos bad for me even though it's just vapor?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
    PPN likes this.
  12. LencieGeoff

    LencieGeoff New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Hi chaps

    I've found this thread very interesting. Thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge. I've been using an Iolite WISPR II to vape pot for a couple of years now but have recently become interested in adding other botanicals (such as damiana, blue lotus etc) to customise the flavour because I find the taste too harsh, but also to try and cut down on my pot consumption (particularly as the legal herbs are about 10% of the price). I'm waiting for delivery of my first order from Harmony Herbals and am really looking forward to experimenting and playing with different blends.

    I'm also a smoker and would like to shift to vaping tobacco (possibly mixed with other botanicals to play around with the flavour). This is equally because of the prohibitive cost (Australia has the worlds strictest smoking laws and govt taxes. Cigarettes now cost $1 each here), and also because of the health benefits of vaping v smoking. I want to stick with dry herb vaping because although I have tried several kinds of e-cigs (pen and box mod), they always make me naseous after a couple of drags and still give me throat burn despite playing with different recipes. I don't know whether I have an intolerance to PG or VG but given that, and the fact that we still don't know what the long term health effects of vaping e-liquids is, I'd just rather not inhale anything that didn't start life as a plant.

    But what I've become aware of in the course of my reading is that all the various plants you can dry vape ideally need different temp settings. The WISPER II is set at 410* so I'm looking at buying another vaper (portable) with temp control. Most of the botanicals I'm looking to incorporate vapourise at low and medium temps too (as opposed to tobacco and weed). Having now learned that the model I'm using is a conduction style, I would also like to upgrade to a convection method vaper. Harmony Herbals recommend the Flowermate Aura, presumably because of its wide temp range.

    SO HERES MY QUESTION. FINALLY......

    Can anyone tell me if there is a good quality portable dry herb vaper on the market that I would be able to use for all of the above plants and purposes and/ or combinations thereof?

    Thank you if you made it to th end.......
     
  13. Xelatsok

    Xelatsok vapes tobacco modding the vapes

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Siberia
    Lotus and Mighty are best with tobacco and any other herbs. CFX is good too.
     
  14. LencieGeoff

    LencieGeoff New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Thanks Xelatsok. Do you (or anyone else) know if it's in advisable to mix dry herbs that should be vaped at low and medium temps with tobacco or other leaves that need to be vaped at high temperature? Would it ruin the flavour of the lower temp herbs? Or make them burn and therefore produce carcinogens?

    Cheers
     
  15. Xelatsok

    Xelatsok vapes tobacco modding the vapes

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Siberia
    I don't know. I think tobacco should not be vaped at high temperatures. I start sometimes at 155C on Mighty and never go beyond 170C. I've read some researches and concluded that 160C is tolerable, 170C is not good and 180C is bad.
     
    PPN likes this.
  16. Vapppo

    Vapppo Vaping in Italy since too short!

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Somewhere - Italy
    Hi mates,

    I vape tobacco in my vapman adding 4-5 drops of PG (30%) and VG (70%). I'm trying to find out if these e-liquids compbined with tobacco between 150 and 200 celsius degrees may be dangerous: if it proves to be safe, i'd propose this method to anyone who wants to covert tobacco usage from smoking to vaping.

    Does anyone use tobacco in VapMan with e-liquids?
     
  17. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    2,977
    In term of harshness, health or taste?

    I'm thinking to mix tobacco with my mj cause I get a lot of difficulties to quit totally tobacco.... I'm absolutly not attracted by e-liquids, it even disgust me (even without ever tried it).
    I only use tobacco mixed with flowers for 2-6 small joints per day and rarely tobacco alone for socials (restaurant or somewhere I can't smoke mj...). The issue is I get a totally destroyed nose (by youth excess...) and smoking didn't help me at all to breath and doctor told me I must to stop smoking to get free flow sinus and better breath while sleeping!

    Which ratio (tobacco/mj) do you use?

    Somebody spoke of very high t° before in this thread (480°F!) and you speak of very lower temp... I'll try by myself.

    I'm not very interested by tobacco taste but mainly by nicotine effects, is there some more neutral in taste sorts of tobacco?

    Thanks in advance for your answers!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  18. Xelatsok

    Xelatsok vapes tobacco modding the vapes

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    Siberia
    Health.
    I do not weed :) I use Oriental (Turkish) tobacco mixed with Virginia tobacco, 75/25.

    Burley. But it contains too much harmful substances, like TSNAs, so I avoid it. Next in terms of neutrality is Virginia.
     
    PPN likes this.
  19. dapperdopamine

    dapperdopamine Member

    Messages:
    14
    what is the temperature range on it, and how has vaping other herbs been going, do you like it. Is there a list somewhere also of certain units temperature ranges, I was looking around a lot for that info and couldnt find it.
     
  20. geevee

    geevee New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Hi, let me add something about e-cigs.

    I don't smoke much, 3-4 Camel filters per day, but I do (did) enjoy the ones I do smoke. Recently I was reading something about NET e-liquid, read some positive reviews about Black Note e-juice, so was like what the heck, I'll try. I bought a $20 vape pen and a sample pack from Black Note (virginia blend, kentucky blend, burley blend, and cavendish type blend). You could choose the level of nicotine, but I just chose the nicotine free altogether.

    I'll tell you what, I'm a week into it vaping and could totally say that puffing on that vape pen, to me, it's more satisfying than a cig now! Way more taste and a bigass cloud of "smoke" (vapor). It's almost like smoking a nice burley blend in a pipe. Smoking a camel now, it tastes so plain.

    And I could vape on that pen in the house, for as long as I want, without worrying that I'm stinking up the house and my lungs. A few cigs per day, and I didn't even realize that even that small amount had some effect, I honestly feel healthier now just smoking the one cig at night before turning in. I may just say bye bye to cigs altogether. Just my $0.02.
     
    PPN and Xelatsok like this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors