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Vaporizing Tobacco (not e-cigs)

Discussion in 'Vaporizables' started by vtac, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. MPZ

    MPZ Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    79
    Lol I am about to finish a bag of Stokkebye's Amsterdam shag... but I actually smoked most of it :(

    I can't speak for anyone else, but your post certainly helped me- you just 100% confirmed the solo as my next vape. Now, the backstory:

    I basically quit smoking (10-15 cigs/day) last sunday, and have had ~ 1 cigarette per day each day from Sunday on... lol so this is the start of day 4 I guess. It's bizarre- just as bad as everyone says in some ways, far easier in others (for me at least). I am not really craving cigarettes or enjoying them anymore, but without nicotine my sleep is all messed up and I am tired a LOT.

    Ok I need to focus... (sorry, still adjusting I guess) I had a point- which is that while I am glad I quit smoking (Tho I suppose I might have the occasional cigar), I never had any intention of quitting nicotine- it is waaay to helpful to my ADD for that. I miss it, but not the cigarettes lol. I would ideally like to use an E-cig because some of the flavors on those are super delicious... but I might not be able to due to sensitive allergeies. Thus, I need a vape that I can use for tobacco on the go. I thought the solo would be able to do this well for a number of reasons, and you just confirmed it for me.

    Thanks!

    (Now I just have to wait for my Cera to come back from Thermovape so I can sell it asap and get a Solo. I hate to do it, as the Cera is both my favorite and the best vape I have ever owned, but it has also taught me that I need a temperature control to get the results I want from vaping... herb and especially tobacco. Flavor on tobacco was incredible through it, but managing the temperature was a huge chore. Now that I have quit smoking, and need it to stick for my new job, which requires me to not smoke for 8 hours straight per workday basically, I need something rock-solid for tobacco, unless I find e-liquid that doesn't bother my allergies. Even in that case, I will be happier with a temperature control for herb as well)
     
  2. Pcpvapors

    Pcpvapors Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    907
    Anyone have any experience with vaporizing pipe tobacco?
     
  3. Ansel

    Ansel the midnight rambler.

    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    an island in the sea.
    pipe tobacco often has a casing on it. for that reason i wouldn't vaporize it. and also the tobacco might not be air cured. there is the option of growing your own then you can be assured it was air cured. you could try vaping snus (or even using snus full time) as snus should always be air cured tobacco.
     
  4. Ansel

    Ansel the midnight rambler.

    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    an island in the sea.
    has anyone tried vaping tobacco in a solo on the 1 setting which is about 40 degrees centigrade? May work, nowhere near combustion... may make it taste better...
     
  5. arf777

    arf777 No longer dogless

    Messages:
    634
    Location:
    In the Shadow of the Beast
    Unfortunately, in the US a lot of suns aren't really snus, and it can be illegal to import real snus, depending on the state you're in. A bit fucked up.

    I've been trying with non-aromatics, like balkan blends and Dunhill, for years (sighs for Balkan Sobranie) and have never gotten decent vapor production, even after drying the tobacco out and grinding it. But I haven't given up. You may have all sorts of different issues with the flavored crap, f that;s what you use.

    I've had more luck with the Pinnacle Pro than any other portable, and they're what I've focused on - don;t want to contaminate any of my decent desktop units with tobacco. The PnP has a really tiny chamber though.
     
    nopartofme and Ansel like this.
  6. Vapin_In_Vancouver

    Vapin_In_Vancouver New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Vancouver, British Columbia
    As someone who quit a year ago after smoking for about 5, I tried a bit in my ascent the other night out of sheer curiosity. Much less harsh that smoking a cigarette. Having said that, I highly doubt I will ever do it again.
     
  7. blasto2236

    blasto2236 Recently converted to the ways of vapelife

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    I'm surprised not to see any mention of the Ploom ModelTwo (or the Pax, for that matter) in this thread. The modelTwo I like a great deal. If it weren't for the cost of the pods I would likely ditch my e-cig completely and use only the modelTwo. However I use a full pack of 12 pods per day if not using the e-cig, and that's even more costly than cigarettes, never mind e-liquid.

    I've not yet used tobacco in my Pax, but I have some Blend-X arriving tomorrow, which Ploom claims is ideal for use in the Pax. I'll report back after I've had a chance to try it tomorrow.
     
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  8. dompang

    dompang Member

    Messages:
    25
    I am the weird guy who got onto this site because I want to vape tobacco. I have always hated smoking (the smell, going outside, stinky rooms, staying away from children after a smoke...etc.), but I loved the nicotine and needed the smoke breaks both mentally and chemically.

    After one ridiculous incident when it took me 15 minutes round trip to go outside or a smoke in the middle of the night, I decided to change the delivery method. I did not do e-cig due to the vials being illegal in Hong Kong, where I live. Plus, I don't want to inhale chemicals of unknown source. I turned to vaping tobacco leafs.

    I instantly found the taste to be far superior and completely effective as a replacement of smoking. Threw away my lighter and gave away my cigarettes one month into vaping. Now I smoke a cigarette once in a while, say drinking or trying to look cool (when really drunk), and it almost always makes me want to throw up due to the shitty taste.

    It usually feels like the vapes are not hot enough.

    I have tried both pipe and rolling and tobacco removed from a cigarette, and pipe tobacco works best. I am happy to elaborate if people are interested.

    I have tried: Pinnacle Pro, Pax, Firefly, Arizer Solo, Wispr Iolite, Herbaliser, Plenty, Ascent Davinci, Elvape Smart and MFLB. I have a Minivap, Vapexhale and Silver Surfer on the way.

    I would love to learn the favorite setup of fellow tobacco-vaporizers.
     
    Daijo and Ansel like this.
  9. Ansel

    Ansel the midnight rambler.

    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    an island in the sea.
    you can put the raw tobacco leaf in your mouth especially if it is air-cured... then you wouldn't have the peaks and troughs of smoking just a consistent level maintenance of nic.
     
  10. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    I am also the weird guy who got into this site via wanting to vape tobacco lol
    I have rather severe reactions to Ejuice, and overall I just don't find it anywhere near enjoyable.
    I've tried different VG, PG, Nic levels, then tried different vendors and tanks and units.
    They all give me the same side effects that actually induce more fear and worry than anything positive! Haha

    I loved being a smoker, I actually enjoyed it, some of my best memories are accompanied by a cigarette however the last damn thing I ever want to do is go back to carcinogens after quitting.
    So here I am coming to the conclusion that perhaps, vaporizing tobacco would give that same nicotine buzz and stimulation, plus the enjoyable habit of going out for a smoke, while avoiding the carcinogens of combustion.

    So I suppose my questions would be aimed at Dompang or MPZ.

    I want to vaporize tobacco, probably in something like the Arizer Solo.

    I'd love to know how tobacco went for MPZ after getting his solo,
    I'd also love to get that further elaboration from Dompang if you don't mind man :)

    What tobacco should I go for, pipe tobacco? Any specific brands that may be obtainable in Australia?
    And is the arizer solo the way to go? (It seems to be)
    Also what's the feeling like? Is it comparable to the stimulation of a cigarette, yknow that mentally tingling, contemplation promoter haha which also alleviates some amount of stress/anxiety.
    Or am I just dreaming and stuck with only with cigarettes for that nice buzz?

    Thanks!
     
  11. dompang

    dompang Member

    Messages:
    25
    Dear Daijo,

    I have completely stopped smoking cigarettes and now vaporize tobacco on a daily basis as a substitute.
    Sounds like you are looking for a portable device.

    1) Portable devices are generally inferior to desktop devices.
    2) You need to use stronger tobacco, breaking apart cigarettes like Marlboro Red, Camel, Zhong Hua (Chinese cigarette), Drum (dark blue one), or any Pipe Tobacco, which generally seems to vaporize much better at lower temperatures.
    3) Pipe tobacco are more aromatic and people around me can smell them.
    4) All the vaporizers are different. They have character and you get to know what works best for you over time. It is completely not "fire and forget" like a cigarette. Some vaporizers work better with some tobacco and not others, I am still figuring it out.
    5) You get to taste a completely different spectrum of tobacco flavor. I told people that it is like suddenly realizing that KFC is not the only way to do chicken.
    6) It does not "kick" like a cigarette drag, but the buzz is there, and you can vary the tobacco strength and the length of your vaping session, it is a more varied process. It is more like chewing tobacco, the effects are milder and more gradual.
    7) For some reason, at the heating up phase, tobacco is much more irritating on the throat than later on, at much higher temperatures. Perhaps the water vapor and some of the spicier aromatics vaporize at lower temps.

    Because of my feelings for 4) above, they are all different and they all have a specific usage.

    A) Solo. All-round solid unit. However, the glass stems means I don't want to travel with this device. I bought a wooden stem from some web vendor, and it's ok. The bowl is kind of small. Difficult to fit in your pocket.
    B) Pax. Very stealthy. Chamber is quite large, which is good for tobacco use (generally needs a much bigger load than the "herbs" people use). Great for pipe tobacco, but not hot enough for some of the milder cigarettes or roll your own tobacco.
    C) Pinnacle Pro. Very stealthy. The draw gets very hot in the early phases. I believe that this unit can reach the highest temperature of all the portables I own. It's USB chargeable. The taste is not as good, but it produces the most cloud for the longest.

    Hope this helps.

    Dom
     
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  12. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Wow thank you so much for that incredibly useful chunk of information man!
    You could not believe how little there is on the Internet about vaporized tobacco!
    Hmm well I'd like to use it on the go sometimes, so yeah portable sounds best.

    So you've completely replaced cigarettes with vaporized tobacco? That's brilliant!
    I read that apparently you only need a few strands of tobacco otherwise you run the risk of going too intense and end up with a nicotine overdose.
    But from what you've said, it would seem that in fact it's the opposite?
    No kick, but more gradual and mild?
    Interesting, would you say it still has that stimulating effect mentally? Like how cigarettes for some people make them very contemplative and mentally more alert and stimulated from the cigarette?
    I found with Ejuice that's it's almost like nothing's really happening, no matter how much nicotine you have all it does it dehydrate you more!

    Hmmm very interesting.
    Yeah the solo looks really solid, but the stealth factor is atrocious haha
    I hear the build quality on the pinnacle isn't really that great, so that would put it as the Solo VS Pax.
    $250 (solo) vs $350 (ploom)

    Sounds like the solo is the way to go! Just....somehow make it less crazy looking lol
    Unless you think the pinnacle / pax is better.

    But long story short, you're enjoying the nicotine/vaping buzz/stimulant?
    It tastes alright?
    Sounds like I should buy something and have explore the world of chicken that's not KFC. :p

    Hmm small chamber and awkward pipe/stealth factor of the solo is a shame.

    Thanks again.
     
  13. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    I've been having some further thought,
    The pax is definitely the superior design, especially if it has a larger chamber.
    You mentioned it doesn't get hot enough for cigarettes or rolled tobacco, so that does that mean pipe tobacco would be the only option for the pax?
    And if so, what is the good option for the solo?
    I think im almost willing to pay the extra 100 if the pax is a winner in results haha
     
  14. dompang

    dompang Member

    Messages:
    25
    The Pax is my daily driver. I use exclusively pipe tobacco with it. With rolling tobacco, you get only 1/2 the mileage of your tobacco, it gets tasteless real soon. However, I have found that it works adequately with the stronger cigarette tobaccos that I listed. I just can't carry the Solo with me. Does not work.

    With the Solo, I use the turbo glass bowl from Planetvape, sometimes with a water tool. That allows me to take massive hits off maximum heat settings. Like I said, for stealth, I use the short wooden stem. Google it.

    You should get both Pax and Solo. Completely different experience. If you have to pick one, go for the solo. You won't be disappointed. With the Pax, anything less than full strength tobacco is going to feel weak, which becomes a problem if you can't get access to a wide selection of tobacco.

    Also, the Solo is on various sites and ebay for like 150 US. Check the forums Vendors page here. I think they are all good.

    I have been smoking for over 20 years, so, I don't really notice the stimulate effect anymore. It is just normal, where no-smoke means way below normal. You do use less tobacco. 1 cigarette can reload the Pax 2 times, and possibly 3-4 times in the Solo. The effects are slightly different. I think it has to do with additives they put in the cigarettes that changes the nicotine when burnt. Not sure. But it is definitely way harder to get nicotine sickness from vaping.

    Build quality for Pinnacle Pro is a shame. But it's stealthy and USB rechargeable. It also produces the most cloud, and these things matter to some people.

    Hope that helps.

    Dom
     
  15. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    You've been an incredible help actually, thank you so very much.
    I hope other people will find this information useful!
    I just received an email from NamasteVapes AU, and the seller there is telling me

    "I'm confident to say that the best portable vape for using tobacco is by far the Pax. The Pax was originally intended for that purpose. It has a larger chamber than any of the other portables and I think would suit your needs much better than the Arizer Solo. The solo is a great unit but the Pax will work better for you and is very slick and portable."

    Adding that to the fact that you say you live by the pax, but with pipe tobacco, it sounds ALOT like I should just find some good pipe tobacco and fall inlove wih a pax? Haha
    Ah, so many questions lol

    If I could find quality pipe tobacco, would you still suggest the Solo over the Pax, if I could only have one?
    Im sure I could find some pipe tobacco shops somewhere here lol
    The portability and sleekness of the pax sure is seductive...

    Thanks again man.
    It's been incredibly helpful information.
    Pretty much the only source I could find!
     
  16. Ansel

    Ansel the midnight rambler.

    Messages:
    286
    Location:
    an island in the sea.
    why not grow your own "organic" tobacco?
     
  17. dompang

    dompang Member

    Messages:
    25
    Dear Daijo,

    Yes. The Pax is the all-round best portable. If the Pinnacle Pro is 100 bucks cheaper, that would change the game, but it is not. These two are really very close in my book.

    Use pipe tobacco in Pax is a fine choice. There are lots of "tastes" to be discovered with other devices, but as a substitute to smoking for the buzz, which is what seems the most important to you, it will surely be fine.

    Downside to the Pax is that it needs to be cleaned every week (and the cleaning is more than a simple wipe down, look on YouTube), the charger is proprietary, you can't just buy a DC converter, and when loading the tobacco, get a small tin can or plastic tube or metal cigar cylinder as container and just shake the tobacco into the receptacle.

    Have fun.

    Dom
     
  18. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    It's actually quite illegal to grow tobacco in Australia, with severly more intense punishments for doing so than for growing certain other herbs.
    Silly I know, but that's Australia, lots of silly rules.

    Thanks Dom!
    You've been a really big help, I'm pretty convinced on the Pax now, I think it will suit my tobacco needs better than the solo (better yes, but big and ugly).
    I guess I might as well ask, does anyone have any thoughts or experiences on the Firefly for tobacco use?
    It seems almost perfect in many ways.

    As always, many thanks,

    Daijo.
     
    Ansel likes this.
  19. dompang

    dompang Member

    Messages:
    25
    Firefly is a great device in a very limited way.

    It's bowl is way too small for tobacco, requiring many reloads. It takes 1-2 blank draws to heat up. It requires a lot of experimenting with draw speed and how dense you pack. It requires stirring as the underside of the load gets quite charred quickly. The battery life is rather short. Cleaning is somewhat messy.

    The upside is that it looks great and is one of the best tasting device of them all (on the 3rd to 4th draw).
     
  20. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Ah I see I see, so the firefly is pretty poor then, for tobacco needs anyway.
    It's a real shame that the Pax is so expensive for AU, and that the solo is so damn hideous haha
    The only place to get a Pax from a retailer in AU is $400.
    Indica $249, Ascent $279, Davinci $200, Pinnacle Pro $269 and the Solo for $220.

    I almost feel like a fool for wanting the Pax so badly when I could buy a Solo AND a Davinci for $20 more -_-

    It's really bumming me out how bad the solo would be for street/hike/outing tobacco vaping.

    I wonder if any of the others are any good for tobacco *sigh*
     
  21. nihil

    nihil Member, Known Well

    Messages:
    139
    @dompang - You've provided me with some very good information, I want to thank you for that.
    @Daijo - some more info on the Pax:

    Regarding the Pax and tobacco.. this thing will probably end up saving my life, or at the least, adding a few years to it. I quite smoking 50+ non-filters/day (24 years) a little over 7 months ago and have no intentions on going back. The Pax made the transition very easy.

    I smoke Amsterdam Shag, but will look into the pipe tobacco per @dompang's advice.

    I'd suggest picking up a cheap dental tool to facilitate cleaning the Pax's oven. I've also found the mouthpiece lubricant almost unnecessary, applying just a little every few weeks. Pipe cleaners and ISO I get off of Amazon. I also use a bent paperclip to bust out the screen for cleaning. You insert it from the mouthpiece side like you would a pipe cleaner.

    I'm running 2 Paxii, and I clean them every 3 days or so. If you're familiar with cleaning guns, the Pax is a no brainer (except AU also has some pretty silly gun laws, so maybe you've never even seen one in person).

    Please watch out for counterfeits. I had to return my first Pax and it was not a hassle as I purchased it directly from them. A genuine Pax has a 10 year warranty and their customer service is top notch.

    I use this guy at work all the time and have had no complaints. People say it just smells like fresh tobacco the smell dissipates within minutes.

    Good luck with making the transition.
     
    Daijo likes this.
  22. dompang

    dompang Member

    Messages:
    25
    Thanks Nihil for chipping in. Shag tobacco works decently well too. The original Drum rolling tobacco is also pretty good in the Pax.

    For what I have read, it seems that the Indica may be comparable to the Pax or even better. But I have not tried it, since their version 2 is coming out soon. No point buying it now.

    Regarding the Pax, go to Ebay and search for the seller yellowdogcompany. He sells them and ships them for 230 USD. I have bought more than 10 of them for friends from him, and its all speedy shipping and all genuine. I bought several counterfeits from China just for fun, and it is obvious that yellowdogcompany sells the real thing.

    Finally, I read somewhere that Ploom does not honor the 10 year warranty when you don't purchase it from an authorized dealer, and as of now, authorized dealers do not ship overseas.

    Dom
     
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  23. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Thanks for your help! @dompang and @nihil
    I've definitely decided on the Pax, I'll be getting it within a few days.
    Tomorrow I'll grab some Amsterdam shag / Drum / Pipe Tobacco, whichever happens to be available here in AUS and when the Pax arrives I'll let you know what I think of it :)

    Ah thanks for that info Dompang! I checked that eBay seller out, seems really good! However I ended up going with another seller who says they will stand by the 10 year warranty, I just need to send it to them for them to handle it. (The chance of them standing by their word is better than no word of warranty at all lol)
    I certainly hope it's legit! I'm not sure I'll get any warranty, just from being in Australia.
    However, I think if the unit appears faulty the place I got mine from will replace it. (They say they do, and that they stand by the 10 year warranty on their own.)
    But the long term warranty might be tough.

    I'm rather excited, I hope it fills the enjoyment factor that I am so fond of when it comes to smoking, it would be wonderful to know that I'll never have to go back to combustion again.
    However It's probably safe to say that if a 50+ a day smoker can be completely satisfied, I have little to worry about! Man that's huge. I think my peak was 1 every hour or so, 2-3x that if I'm drinking haha
    I'll also grab all the stuff Nihil mentioned on amazon after I've become familiar with using the Pax ;) thanks.

    So, do you guys go for a full oven of un-chopped tobacco? Or do you chop it?
    Medium temp I'm guessing is the favored one?

    Thanks again guys,

    Daijo
     
    nihil likes this.
  24. nihil

    nihil Member, Known Well

    Messages:
    139
    Yes on the medium temp. High is too harsh for me, although I will do low at times. Low tends to give better flavor if you're looking for that.

    I don't chop my tobacco, but that will vary by brand and/or blend. Slightly dried out works wonders, but if it is overly dry it will get rather harsh quickly. You'll need to experiment with it.

    Another term to learn is "Flip the Brick." Basically, once the load starts to lose it's flavor, power it off, pop open the oven and flip the brick over. You'll get some more draws this way. I call it a brick because it basically is a compacted half vaped cube of tobacco. I use a pocket knife or a toothpick to do the flipping.

    Keep in mind that the first 8 days were rough for me, but I was motivated to quit. A few weeks in I never felt the urge to combust. I did in fact combust some herb via a water pipe a few weeks ago, and damn, what an eye opener. It was 10x harsher than I remembered, and that was through water.

    I'm sure you've already read it, but the Pax thread under Portables would be a good place to start reading up.
     
  25. Daijo

    Daijo New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Hmm well so far, the results were very dismal.
    I certainly got the taste of drum tobacco, however there was zero vapor, zero throat hit, zero nicotine.
    I'm wondering whether it's because I either packed too much in there, or that I'm doing it wrong lol

    I did an empty cook for the first use.
    Then I filled it with drum original, put the temp to orange and waiting for it to go green, pulled on it for varying strengths and times with no results, put it up to red and still no results.
    The tobacco is slightly crisp now.

    I wonder how I can get better results lol any thoughts?

    EDIT: I now have found that if I super pack it with drum I'll get about 2-3 draws out of it all, the first 2 are super warm and not very pleasant, however the 3rd was nice.
    And then it's about an immediate nothingness after that 3rd draw haha
    I wonder how much better pipe tobacco performs. It'll certainly taste nicer! Haha
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014 at 9:53 AM

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