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Vaporizing propylene glycol (PG) does have dangers according to study.

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by Gnomebe, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. Gnomebe

    Gnomebe Member

    Messages:
    9
    This Study... is really a first of its kind does make the point of basically:

    Vegetable glycerin (VG) is safe.
    propylene glycol (PG) is not safe because once it heated it converts to metabolites.

    What do you think.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  2. doctorofpharmacy

    doctorofpharmacy New Member

    Messages:
    1
    I see there is promise in using PEG as a solvent.
     
  3. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    3,352
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I can't help but wonder if they would have found different results if they used a no nicotine solution?
     
  4. 215z

    215z Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    595
    Location:
    Oakland
    @Gnomebe the study does not say PG is unsafe when heated. It says that 18mg/ml to 24mg/ml nicotine solutions in PG are unsafe when vaped in that Crystal 2 atomizer. I think it is a rebranded CE2 clearo or similar.

    I certainly wouldn't want any of you here at FC to vape anything out of such chintzy shit. I am confident that part of the issue is temperature. The atomizers that rely on low-power batteries are designed with very small heating elements, and in order to crank out vapor they need to run at obscene temperatures.

    The study also states: "VG and PG have been shown to decompose at high temperatures generating low molecular weight carbonyl compounds with established toxic properties (e.g., formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein, and acetone)" But they reference Paschke, Scherer, & Heller (2002) which is merely a review of existing literature. The only study referenced in there relating to Propylene Glycol is Gaworski (1999) which involved lacing cigarettes with different blends of PG+VG. This is a serious fuckup in this new paper.

    They go on to say: "Moreover, carbonyls such as formaldehyde and acetaldehyde may be present in the e-liquid" referencing Farsalinos (2014). That study makes no mention of any of those compounds.

    I'm too old to go through the rest of his references with my fine toothed WTFcomb.
     
    Quetzalcoatl and sasNW like this.
  5. fernand

    fernand Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    378
    I've been vaping for 4 years. Quit 2 packs a day thanks to vape. I found PG caused dry mouth, eyes and constipation, and I don't like the taste, so I switched to all VG. PG has slight sedative effects that are helpful when kicking cigarettes. But e-cigs, like MMJ, are under a new wave of attack in the science press releases. Investigators are offered grants to help guide the sheeple towards "desirable public health outcomes". An effective divide and conquer strategy pits e-cig users against MMJ users, and everybody against smokers. Hilarious. People on this forum are paranoid about e-cigs.

    There have been studies like this which suffer from many subtle flaws. One of them is that they pay no attention to how well the liquid saturates the wick. When people vape they are attentive to taste and odor. Running e-cigs on a smoking machine invariably burns liquids. This is bad "science". Nicotine vapers would not deliberately inhale burned liquids, and humans can detect anything over trace amounts of acrolein, formaldehyde etc. The vapor this study measures would never be inhaled by normal users.

    That said, and without going into details, there are cannabis users who lack the expertise (for lack of a better word) to safely apply e-Cig technology. It can be summarized : if it doesn't taste nice DON'T INHALE IT. It's not true that a nail burns waxes. A titanium nail normally cools to a reasonable temp, around 450-500°F, before concentrates are applied. The oil boils off before burning and you know it because the taste is good.

    With the various e-cig hybrids using technologies designed for water-miscible liquids, when stuff is directly heated by a red glowing wire, albeit just on the edges, oils are burned. Decomposed. The taste tells the whole story. There is no reason - NO REASON - to inhale that. PLEASE DO NOT TOLERATE FOUL or even just poor TASTE. It's your body warning you. Go for the good and the beautiful in yer one life!

    As to the solvents like PG, PEG and VG again it comes down to burning, to decomposition at higher temps than normal. There is nothing so far to indicate these compounds are harmful if inhaled intact.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014

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