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Vaporizing Harmful?

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by jx80, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. jx80

    jx80 Well-Known Member

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    -Does any one ever feel that their overall health and lungs are being harmed by vaporizing in general? I used to vape regularly then quit for a couple years all together and then began eating it to avoid everything other then the cooked food/liquid. But recently became interested again, as I was questioning if vaporizing is any more harmful them a humidifier... Of course I thought this while watching everyone else smoke and I am waiting for food I ate to kick in, the main downside to eating it.
  2. vaporcloud

    vaporcloud lurking kiwi

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    No.

    But its a good question and one I doubt anyone has a definitive answer on.

    I'm sure inhaling only Oxygen is the only sure fire way to have squeeky clean lungs and throat but even then just the air we breath is far from perfect.

    Vapping has been proven to cut down Tar and C02 which are major benefits. I have (in the past) done many sessions using a water filter for my vapour and the one thing that struck me was how the water never changed colour. It stayed perfectly clear. This is while the glass started to get a film of condensed vapor and turn a light brown colour. This proves for me that there is very little (possibly zero tar) if vapped at the correct temp. On youtube there is a vid where they vape and smoke through a pipe a few grams of tabacco and blow out through a tissue and the smoked tabacco produced lots of tar upon exhale where the vapped tab had none.

    The biggest benefit I get from vapping is the cooler delivery. The lack of high temperature combusted smoke scoulding my throat (and vocal chords) is a huge benefit for me. My singing voice is stronger than it has been in years. I can even have a heavy vape session and then sing straight afterwards no problem.

    Another benefit is when I have a cold or flu. When I was a bonger if I got a cold my throat would phlem up big time and I'd be left with a rattly hacking cough for weeks afterwards. Now days post illness dodgy throat conditions never linger any longer than the other symptons.

    How about the 'day after' feeling? Combusting left me the next day with a very burnt out feeling in my throat and lungs which I never get from vapping. THis can actually be a downside because now there is NO excuse not too wake n bake.

    Vapor good
    Combustion Bad
  3. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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    Any of the few existing studies that used a high quality convection vape (properly) show a huge decrease in toxins, some show them eliminated completely. For sure, more research needs to be done, but as max said, big pharma isn't about to finance that.

    Probably inhaling anything other than fresh, clean, room temperature air with the right humidity has a chance of irritating sensitive lungs. And of course it depends on the quality of herb you're vaping and the vaporizer itself and how you're using it, especially temperature.

    In my own experience, vaping is very clean and I haven't noticed any decrease in lung function or irritation lasting longer than a glass of water. Pretty good, because even just an hour in a smoky pool hall and I can feel the negative effects for days.

    The thing to be concerned about is poorly made vaporizers. I'd sooner not vape at all than use a generic Chinese vape. They're exporting toys full of lead, so imagine what's in an 'underground' unregulated product like a vape. Look at the lead paint covered 'vaporbuddy', or the vapor revolutions that DIGITALDIVINCI took apart, etc. Profit margins are king there.
  4. DigitalDavinci

    DigitalDavinci Vapohaulic

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    "I'd sooner not vape at all than use a Chinese made generic box vape." - vtac

    Which is what I'm doing now. :( For the 3 weeks I had a vape...I noticed a great reduction in my asthma problems, and the amount of phlem I was producing. GROSS! I know, but after smoking cigs for 11 years (done with those for 2 years now), working in bars for 11 years, and smoking bud for 14 years...my lungs were spent at 31. No cigs for 2 years, office work for 4 years now, and vapeing for 3 weeks proved to greatly reduce the signs of what my decisions in life had damaged. I'm healther than ever, and have noticed the change in breathing after going back to combustion. Guess that is a good enough test on the subject...for my self at least. :2c:

    DD
  5. vaporcloud

    vaporcloud lurking kiwi

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    Perhaps because I have owned 2 of these but even this sort of worry comes more from an informed serious vapper than the common man. I have felt no ill effects at all from vapping through my vapor daddy and vaporite (both chinese vapes). Through a clean whip the taste and correct temp the vapor tastes are as nice as those through my PD and for Joe Public they'd still gotta be better off with a cheap chinese knock off than a plastic drink bottle bong or brass one hitter!
  6. DigitalDavinci

    DigitalDavinci Vapohaulic

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    It's all relative...I'd be healthier smoke free, and breating out of oxygen tubes. But would I be happy not being stoned. After just reading my health issues. The great feeling I get knowing I can still get high, and reduce the harm I was going to do anyway is justification in it's own right. Once agian... :2c:

    DD
  7. jx80

    jx80 Well-Known Member

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    Thats what I was thinking but was questioning it as I could still just eat it. -I wander if anyone can verify this for me. When I eat weed or vapor it at the correct temp, everything feels good the next day including my heart rate, which goes back down to the bpm it was before consuming thc. But I remember when smoking and combusting it, I would always have the increased heart rate the day after, I wander if its something thats in the combustion of weed that causes it. I know you get an increased heart rate when weed kicks in but usually it leaves after the effects wear off in a few hours but I when I used to smoke it always seemed to stick around a day later. I noticed it again recently when I accidentally combusted when using the pocket vape.
  8. vaporcloud

    vaporcloud lurking kiwi

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    You could be over sensative to CO2 maybe. I'd imagine an extra dose of that via combustion would make the heart work a bit faster.

    Get yourself a vape that has good temp control and you wont have a problem.

    I recommend the Purple-Days vaporizer :brow:
  9. DigitalDavinci

    DigitalDavinci Vapohaulic

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    Healthier production/manufacturing reasons (plus numerous others) is why my choice for my next (and first real) vape is the Purple-Days. Great people to talk to as well. I can't review it because I don't own one yet, but there is a thread. Loads of recomendations will come from members here as well. I have to agree with vaporcloud

    Also eating MJ may have gastral complications. One never knows. How much has been tested in that realm? A good example would be an ulcer. MJ may not be the best for your stomach with ulcers, or it may help.

    I think it really boils down to what makes you relax, and just enjoy the ride/high. If eating helps cut the worries, then perhaps stick with making new recipies. If a vape that was tested to remove all traces of carcinogens(sp?), then would that ease your worry? Does one already exist. I recently read an article vtac (I think. Sorry if I'm wrong.) posted a link for. The study received a grant to test cumbustion vs vaporizing. (the test done with the volcano.) It was often hindered by the government, but eventally took off. Very intesting that almost all toxins were removed from the MJ durring vaporization. Just throwing out questions and ideas. :brow:

    DD
  10. vaporcloud

    vaporcloud lurking kiwi

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    Good point ... not wanting to drag this off topic too much ... but my mate who I gave my vaporgenie too is a builder ... a big fucker too 6'4 and 120kg. Anyway, he likes to vape but misses the couch lock and would rather have a joint in the evenings so he can relax better and get to sleep easy.

    I have heard ingesting herb causes a build up in the liver ... or was it kidney :rolleyes: Build up of what :/ Bloody urban myths.
  11. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

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  12. jx80

    jx80 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds interesting, I never heard that but would like to find out what it is, if anything.
  13. ozwiz

    ozwiz Well-Known Member

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    People with existing liver disease are told of recent studies that there is "some evidence it may cause " a quickening of liver damage . These studies are not conclusive as yet . Google this subject you will find quite a bit of info. but really nothing 100% :/ . ozwiz
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    vaping is more good then smoking as it deducts the danger of CO2 and other danger side effects.. and it gives more pleasure but still there are many side effects of its too but they are longer and dont show so easily and if you wish they cant be controlled.. in time to..
    Terrible Vapir (Crapir) Vaporizers at the shittiest prices: marijuanavaporizer . com

    Note to marijuana vaporizer . com: When you hire an oursourced spammer to post at a forum that would never buy something from your joke of a store, instruct them to be a bit more subtle. :)
  15. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    Can you elaborate? I have not seen any studies or anything but would love to hear what you know.
  16. max

    max This space available Staff Member

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    You mean CO, not CO2. And you left out a few other toxins.

    Yes, tell us about the "many side effects".

    Please stop spamming. It's not allowed. That goes for linking a dealer site in your signature as well.
  17. bongoman

    bongoman Well-Known Member

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    The latest danger I heard about cannabis is that consuming it leads to 'cracks in your aura through which undesirable entities can enter'.

    Now, what on earth was he smoking?
  18. Acolyte of Zinglon

    Acolyte of Zinglon Wizard-Ninja

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    i feel that it strengthens my paranormal defenses :D
  19. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

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    well really honestly i get a bit roasty when i vape(my lungs accumulate a lil bit of thick lung butter but nothing even fucking close to smoking) so yes it gives ur lungs some damgae but hardley anything at all!!!! :D
  20. Acolyte of Zinglon

    Acolyte of Zinglon Wizard-Ninja

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    maybe not damage, but the flegm and shit id your lungs defense mechanism against irritation
  21. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

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    yep but its the sweetest irritant i have EVER tasted...i love the fist two or three hits on a green vape bowl! :)
  22. thecragus

    thecragus Active Member

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    It depends on the temperature you use for vaporization. The current studies show that if you vaporize below 200C, the effect on your lungs is negligible. This can be further helped by passing the vapor through a vapor bong to cool it before it gets to your lungs/throat. At this temperature, you will only be vaping THC and getting none of the CBN & CNA. These can be extracted by either making "Green Dragon" or increasing the vape temperature over 200C.

    As you pass the 200C make, you beginning to get all the bad combustion byproducts including naphthalene, benzine, toluene and carbon monoxide . At around 226C you're getting about 80% of the toxins you'd get if you were smoking. Most herb will combust somewhere around 240C - 244C.
  23. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

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    I would have to say pretty much the opposite - NOT vaping is dangerous. (For others) ;)
    (Kidding)
  24. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Citation for these "current studies" please.
  25. treecityrnd

    treecityrnd Active Member

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    EDIT: WOW, just realized how old this thread is :o
    thecragus is digging deep! ;)

    Most drugs, including most cannabinoids are metabolized in the liver by cytochrome P450. As this enzyme is degraded there can be some liver toxicity. This is the case with morphine or marijuana. It's mostly about concentration. IMO you usually won't get to these levels with normal oral administration. Now if your eating 10g a day...that's a different story. So I wouldn't get to hung up on it. In addition, CBD has been shown to inhibit the metabolism of THC and CBN, so its more complicated than it seems.

    Oral administration is also more likely to cause nausea or vomiting (Grinspoon, 1969). This may be due to the plant matter itself and not the delta-9-THC as reports have varied depending on methodology. Thus it is not recommended that you ingest the plant matter as is because of the potential stomach discomfort as well as potential decreases in potency and efficacy when compared to other routes of administration (McKim, 2000). However, no current studies have shown any negative GI effects from cannabinoids themselves. Therefore maybe injesting an Everclear extraction is the best possible solution for everyday people?

    However, it should be noted that respiratory harm has been called the only well-confirmed deleterious physical effect of marijuana by Dr. Lester Grinspoon (Grinspoon, 1997).

    Grinspoon, L. (1969). Marihuana. Sci Am, 221(6), 17-25.
    Grinspoon, L. (1997). Marijuana, the forbidden mediine. (Revised Edition ed.). New Haven: Yale University Press.
    McKim, W. A. (2000). Drugs and Behavior (4th ed.). New Jersey: Prentice Hall.


    As far as overall safety, some of the studies have already been cited, but summaries are always nice. This is part of an article I wrote a while back (TreeCity Research & Development, 2010):

    In 1978, Mr. J. P. Ray applied for a U.S. Patent on a new invention that claimed to be a smokeless tobacco delivery system. This device could generate nicotine vapors from tobacco leaves by heating it to a temperature below the point of combustion but above the vaporization point for nicotine. Referred to as vaporization or volatilization, this device would deliver the active cannabinoids without any toxicity or byproducts. This concept works exactly the same for marijuana and its active cannabinoids compounds. Vaporizers heat cannabis to release active cannabinoids, but remain cool enough to avoid the smoke and toxins associated with combustion.

    Many recent studies have shown that vaporization may reduce the overall byproducts and harm associated with combustion (Fischedick, Van Der Kooy, & Verpoorte, 2010; Pomahacova, Van der Kooy, & Verpoorte, 2009; Van Dam & Earleywine, 2010; Wilson et al., 2002). Using a Volcano vaporizing device, Abrams et al. (2007) showed reduced carbon monoxide (CO) delivery with equal THC concentrations when compared to normal combustion (Abrams et al., 2007). Others have shown significant differences in the cannabinoid to byproducts ratio in the vapor when compared to smoking (Pomahacova, et al., 2009). In other words, there was a significant decrease in the toxins while the THC/cannabinoids levels that reach the body were not changed. Earleywine & Barnwell (2007) revealed that the impact of a vaporizer was larger as the amount of cannabis used increased (Earleywine & Barnwell, 2007).

    These data suggest that the safety of cannabis can increase dramatically with the use of a vaporizer. In addition, the data show that the more medication you inhale, the greater the benefit you will have from using a vaporizer compared to combustion methods. Patients who regularly use joints, blunts, pipes, and bongs to medicate might decrease unwanted respiratory symptoms by switching to a vaporizer (Earleywine & Barnwell, 2007).

    Abrams, D. I., Vizoso, H. P., Shade, S. B., Jay, C., Kelly, M. E., & Benowitz, N. L. (2007). Vaporization as a smokeless cannabis delivery system: a pilot study. Clin Pharmacol Ther, 82(5), 572-578.
    Earleywine, M., & Barnwell, S. S. (2007). Decreased respiratory symptoms in cannabis users who vaporize. Harm Reduct J, 4, 11.
    Fischedick, J., Van Der Kooy, F., & Verpoorte, R. (2010). Cannabinoid receptor 1 binding activity and quantitative analysis of Cannabis sativa L. smoke and vapor. Chem Pharm Bull (Tokyo), 58(2), 201-207.
    Pomahacova, B., Van der Kooy, F., & Verpoorte, R. (2009). Cannabis smoke condensate III: the cannabinoid content of vaporised Cannabis sativa. Inhal Toxicol, 21(13), 1108-1112.
    Van Dam, N. T., & Earleywine, M. (2010). Pulmonary function in cannabis users: Support for a clinical trial of the vaporizer. Int J Drug Policy, 21(6), 511-513.
    Wilson, D. M., Peart, J., Martin, B. R., Bridgen, D. T., Byron, P. R., & Lichtman, A. H. (2002). Physiochemical and pharmacological characterization of a Delta(9)-THC aerosol generated by a metered dose inhaler. Drug Alcohol Depend, 67(3), 259-267.

    Just one researcher's humble conclusions...

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