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Vaping with cotton

Discussion in 'Vapor Related Equipment' started by stickstones, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Cotton begins to oxidize at 95C.
    http://www.mcclureindustries.com/Reports/Spontaneous_Ignition.pdf

    What does it give off at over twice that temp?

    Of course it's not toxic like asbestos, but still, I do wonder if there should be any concern with this?

    I just find it kind of odd that we lust over an all glass vapor path, but don't think twice about introducing a wad of cotton in that all glass vapor path. But hey, I look at things a bit askew at times. Kinda my nature.
     
    MileHighLife, tuk, Seren and 4 others like this.
  2. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    8,199
    could there be small particles that vape and are harmful to lungs that get incinerated in the smoking process? Is that not the same concern as with the cotton?
     
  3. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    My thoughts about this is coming from someone who smoked 3 packs of cigs a day for over 20 years along with all the other recreational drugs that I consumed over the years, coke, speed, ludes, acid, etc etc etc. So now, 35 years later since quiting all that shit, I'm kind of super vigilant about what I introduce into my body. I just don't want to add to the damage.

    Regarding your questions above, I feel that I don't incinerate anything in the smoking process when I vape because I'm vaping, not smoking.............but it's also one of the reasons that I vape through water.......to help eliminate any particles that may be present.

    It's not that I want to live my life in a bubble, but everything is cumulative, so if I can eliminate the things that "may" have a negative influence on my health, without giving up most of the things that give me pleasure, it's a balance that I try to strive for.
     
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  4. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Oregon
    Isn't cotton bleached during the manufacturing process? I put some clean cotton in the GonG on my Cloud once and it immediately put off vapor all on its own. That was the end of that.
     
  5. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,199
    I vaped a bowl of cotton to see and got nothing visible and I had a fresh laundry taste.

    lwien...what I am saying is we vape weed, and could there be surface particles that we vape off that would have been incinerated if we smoked it, thus making the smoke less harmful regarding that particle?

    I have removed cotton that was dry and slightly brittle.
     
  6. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    For some odd reason, sticks, I am having a really hard time wrapping my head around what you just asked. I have no idea how to answer because I don't understand the question. What's even scarier is the thought that I "should" understand it. :uhoh:
     
  7. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,685
    Location:
    Oregon
    He is suggesting that vaporizing something like, a pesticide, might be worse for you than combusting it, and completely changing its properties prior to inhalation.
     
  8. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,138
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Oh, ok, now I understand.

    Stick, my feeling is this. Incinerating something and inhaling the byproducts of that incineration would be more harmful than vaping. Could I be wrong? Absolutely.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  9. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,685
    Location:
    Oregon
    To be fair I want to clarify something. I just went and checked the cotton my wife uses and it is not organic, its local big box store stuff. So that could very well be what caused what I saw.
     
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  10. ShipDit

    ShipDit 1%

    Messages:
    1,065
    Location:
    The great Mid West Wasteland
    This is a very cool thread.
    First came smoking,then Vaping then dabs...now would this be called "Swabbing"?
    Another first for FC,:tup:
    Yeah I know,I'll be quiet now.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    8,199
    Or even something that is naturally occurring. The bottom line is that vaping cotton either adds something to the vapor or it doesn't. If it does, is that substance harmful in its current form or not? We'll probably never know this shit until years after legalization. I have pulled cotton out after a session that was more brittle than going in, so does the heat change it and introduce something into the air stream? I don't know. I do think I noticed a taste difference the other night with vs without cotton.
     
    ataxian likes this.
  12. farscaper

    farscaper Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Errp
    First, where in the vapor path do you put your cotton and why are you using it?

    I assume its to prevent particles from entering the airway, am I right?

    I started putting a wad in the downstem of my vapor tube to keep flower bits out cause I vape and dab through that piece. The only thing I noticed was that it would collect resin as well... Since I was unsure about rinsing the cotton to collect it I discontined using it... But I was good at keepn the piece clean... Never the less, do you think your baking it stiff or just coating it in resin to the point it needs a rinse?
     
  13. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    575
    I have vaped with cotton in my cloud for concentrated wax. It is the only way I can do concentrates in the cloud. I am curious if anyone else does this and what techniques you use to roll it. I try to cover a ball of wax with a thin layer of cotton and flatten it out a bit to increase surface area. After about 5 or 6 hits I have to pull the cotton out of the ELB. It is usually charred black and has a sticky gum feel too it. I try to stretch it out as thin as possible like pulling old gum apart stuck in cotton. I do this to increase the surface area as much as possible. By the time the last hit is done I am left with the burnt leftovers of the oil infused into the cotton which I assume are the impurities left behind.

    Does anyone do it this way?

    On another note is it more convenient to use Qtips or a roll of cotton that you pull off? I am tempted to buy that organic cotton posted at Intrinsics and just pull it off.
     
  14. vaporonly

    vaporonly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    348
    could the more brittle feeling be that water was vaped from cotton? I would imagine it would absorb some moisture from the atmosphere that the vape would vaporize.

    It would be nice to have some more concrete info on this
     
  15. jds32

    jds32 Active Member

    Messages:
    87
    I recently got a scale. Well, you know what that means!

    Here's my first post after playing around:
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/arizer-solo.3833/page-654#post-417686

    You can also read a few posts after that to see what I've learned. What got me started was this thread.

    1. A small ball of all-natural, organic cotton weighs about 25 milligrams
    2. Add some Purple Mr. Nice wax and the combined weight is 96mg, showing that we have 72mg of concentrate
    3. I put it in my Solo and vaped it at 6 (spec: 401F/205C)
    4. The remaining cotton ball weighed 47mg, so we lost 25mg of ??? That's 35% by weight.

    Some of you, especially those that followed the thread link above, might be thinking - hey wait, what happens when you vape cotton by itself? Perhaps there's moisture in the cotton? I tried it with another ball of cotton. Starting measurement was 39mg and abv was 37mg. That's within the margin of error, but I do thing there was moisture vapor coming off the cotton.

    I may try some full melt bubble hash in the morning (Super lemon haze!)

    Peer reviews anyone?
     
    Fame Is A Vapor, ogcook, Doug and 2 others like this.
  16. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,199
    I think your math is all fucked up. 2 should be 71 mg and I don't even understand what you are saying with 4. It sounds like you still have 22 grams of concentrate in your cotton ball and could keep vaping away.

    Other than that I love what you are doing!
     
    Fame Is A Vapor likes this.
  17. cellardoor

    cellardoor Collegiate Vapor Enthusiast

    Messages:
    135
    Great thread! I took a bit of a hiatus on here but I've gotta come back for this. I use cotton swabs to clean my EQ glass and whatever parts of my rig I can get a swab in. I really only vape with cotton when I've finished off my fresh supply and abv edibles, so really only as a last resort. I've found that on my EQ I get a lot more vapor thickness on fan 3 than I do on 1 which is the opposite of what usually happens with just flowers. I don't really have any theories for this besides that maybe a faster air stream melts the oil better. Anybody know why this is?

    I also feel like my throat is a bit drier after I vape with cotton but that could be in my head. I always use water filtration with it too. Anybody think this would make any difference if there was something in the cotton?

    I also found this article via a thread on grasscity I found when trying to find if cotton was safe. I wonder if "cotton textile dust" or something similarly damaging could be coming from the cotton when exposed to heat.
    http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/119/1/33.abstract
     
    Seren likes this.
  18. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    575
    Well this is very disconcerting. I don't vape with cotton very much but this article really concerns me.
     
  19. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,199
    My first thought is there is a big difference between working in a cotton mill for thirty five years and vaping through a little bit of the finished product.

    cellardoor...maybe it works better on high because the cotton does a better job of restricting the airflow?
     
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  20. John Lewus

    John Lewus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    575
    Your right of course but by comparison how comfortable would you feel vaping with asbestos. Not quite the same comparison but both take years of normal exposure to develop symptoms. I certainly would not run intense hot air over it and breathe in deeply and hold it. Hopefully with the forum members we can make a risk assessment.
     
  21. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    878
    Working 35 years at a hemp mill would probably also be hazardous to your lungs. The industrial activities mechanically grind the fibers into tiny dust particles. Dust particles from the field are mixed in with the cotton as a raw product. Dusty environments in any industry should be avoided when possible or proper precautions taken. I have to take precautions every day. I wear a respirator most of the time while working in the shop.
    Subjecting cotton fibers to vaporizer temperatures does not cause it to form tiny dust particles.
    Cotton is almost entirely cellulose. This is also true for cannabis/hemp. Both come from the plant's flowers.

    cellardoor - The cotton provides a tremendous increase in surface area over that of ground leaf. The concentration of oil is also much more. I get the darkest vapor when I pull hot air through a dirty cotton filter.

    I have a theory concerning the smoothness of vapor. We have to examine what is happening to create the vapor. The oil starts at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. It is suddenly subjected to very high temperature and a low atmospheric pressure. The oil particles are violently burst apart into smaller and smaller pieces. Some of the larger particles of oil are also carried along with the vapor / air stream. When the larger particles come in contact with your lungs, they collect and condense into particles large enough to trigger your cough sensation.
    The cotton filter makes it smoother because the larger oil particles get condensed in the cotton fibers, allowing only the smaller particles to pass.The higher the concentration of smaller particles, the darker white the vapor will be. The higher the concentration and the more it will condense in your lungs and you will have the need to cough.
    Water filtration will only allow the smallest oil particles to pass. The larger ones will be trapped in the water along with any other large particles.
    This could also explain the smoothness being reported from the Sublimator. The larger oil particles are being condensed out as indicated by the production of sublimate oil. Only the smaller oil particles make it through for a smooth hit.
    However it works, I am enjoying the smooth hits from cotton filtration and the massive rips from roasting the dirty cotton. It all stays in the roasting tube so reclaim is clean and easy.
     
  22. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,685
    Location:
    Oregon
    Yes. I would call it a reverse fractional distillation or a fractional condensation. Thats the closest thing I can come up with to name it. My contention is the path restriction is effective for airflow purposes only, not "atomization" in the technical sense of the word. The red color is also a clue.
     
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  23. jds32

    jds32 Active Member

    Messages:
    87
    More fun with my little scale last night. Loaded up some sap in some cotton and vaped it in the Solo.

    Cotton = 41mg
    Cotton with Larry OG sap = 112mg
    Therefore Larry OG = 71mg

    This time I went 2 full 12 minute sessions based on sticksstones feedback. I don't care for the taste during the second session, but there was definitely more vapor being produced.

    Post-vape cotton weight was 57mg which when we subtract out the original cotton weight leaves 16mg of leftovers from the concentrate. For a ratio, 16/71 = 22.5% remained, or 77.5% was evaporated.

    Thoughts? Peer reviews anyone?
     
  24. Your Highness

    Your Highness Cannasseur

    Messages:
    278
    Location:
    Vaporizer.Expert
    This is making me want to stick a piece of cotton in the end of my Sublimator Atomizer to collect all of the oil... Based on what you guys are reporting, the cotton should collect the oil very nicely... Hmmmmm I will give it a try and report back.
     
  25. cellardoor

    cellardoor Collegiate Vapor Enthusiast

    Messages:
    135

    So do you think the water is making me lose potency? Considering I only really use this method when I'm dry and need to conserve as much as possible that would matter a lot. If this is true since the oil is heat activated shouldn't a shot of my bub water theoretically give me an edible high? Thanks for the insight. I'm feeling a lot better about cotton after your post.
     
    ataxian likes this.

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