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Vaping Vegetable Glycerin?

Discussion in 'Vaporizables' started by ITNinja, May 20, 2011.

  1. ITNinja

    ITNinja Active Member

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    8
    Hey guys, I bought some food grade Vegetable Glycerin for some tinctures, and I know that people add it to their shisha, So i dont see why this would hurt. I put a drop in my wand for my DaBuudha just to see if it would create more vapor, And boy did it. but after 3 hits I felt, Like. Super blitzed, And I still do. I am wondering now if it's safe for me to do that, Or if somehow the glycerin mixed well with the THC on the way to my mouth and somehow got me higher.

    Whatcha guys thinK?
     
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  2. PhishCactus

    PhishCactus Lvl. 420 Vaporist

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    162
    Someone posed this question in the vapor brothers thread, and it excited me as I have two bottles of glycerin cannabis tincture that I haven't used in forever and can't possibly stay viable forever. In the past i know i've vaporized some of it, but I was already high.

    I do know that it gave me plooms of vapor, i just dont know to what degree it was effective.

    I guess there are two parts to this question:

    #1: is it safe to inhale vaporized vegetable glycerin?

    #2: will this be a viable method of consuming this tincture?

    If anyone can offer any insight into this question it would be helpful.

    Thanks!
     
  3. jackmormon

    jackmormon Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Big Love
    I don't know about vegetable glycerin tincture.... But, the "juice" for electronic cigarettes is commonly made with Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerin, or a combo of the two. So I think it would be safe to vape. At least at the e-cig temp.
     
  4. wowthisisrandom

    wowthisisrandom Glass/Vape Enthusiast

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    Location:
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    I remember the dude kads from the vapor bros channel on youtube he would take some tincture and put a drop on some buds. Then he would let it evap and vape whats left. I assume this would be safe as long as it was evaporated
     
  5. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

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    Location:
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    Veg glycerin is used in ecigs and at low temps with ecig atomizers it is suspected to be safe for inhalation. If you get VG up too high in temp it produces acrolein which is toxic and not something you want to mess with.

    I do know that people were using ecig liquid in Iolites and diluting it with VG (I tried this as well). The IO does not get high enough to produce acrolein and will vaporize VG liquids. It is recommended to use organic cotton to soak up the VG for that purpose. I would do further research before going higher temps though for sure.

    Oh and VG tincture tastes good! Way better than swamp water. I could literally be selling it as fast as I could make it. People love that shit when I make it ;) I'd just consume it lol.
     
  6. VWFringe

    VWFringe Naruto Fan

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    Location:
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    i use e-cigs and vape about 3 drops in a ten minute sitting

    how much of your tincture do you need to drink to get stoned? even if your method flash vaporizes larger quantities at once you'll probably exhale most of the actives because VG vapor droplet size is too large to get in between the alveoli, so in an e-cig nic juices are only absorbed thru the upper respiratory tract, throat and mouth (especially where the vapor hits the throat, throat hit, you'll see abbreviated TH)

    but then again, if you're vaporizing VG and cannabis resins at once, the vapor from the cannabis resins will probably act as it normally would and only the VG would be rejected, unless they are somehow chemically bonded...i don't know just theorizing without enough info, sorry

    wikipedia showed this:
    you would not want anything red-hot to contact VG, acrolein is bad bad stuff, but it seems in a vaporizer this wouldn't be a problem.
     
  7. PhishCactus

    PhishCactus Lvl. 420 Vaporist

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    162
    after the possibility of acrolein has arose i now no longer feel the need to probably try what wouldn't work anyway, it takes three teaspoons to get me stoned, although i would have tried to evap it first if this method proved plausible, thanks for the info though!
     
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  8. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

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    18
    sorry to be resurrecting an older post but i tried this yesterday and today and my experience was similar to ITNinja's. i also have a DBV, and make a glycerin tincture out of medium-brown ABV and kosher USP food grade vegetable glycerin. i also clean my wands and grinders with everclear and add that to make up about 20% of the volume. sublingually, it takes about two full droppers for me to get a heavy body stone with some lighter mental effects.

    with the DBV standard wand 1/4 - 1/3 full and lightly tamped, i start at a low temperature and vape until the aromatics are all gone and it's good and dry, then stir/crumble and re-tamp the wand, put a single drop of the tincture on top of the herb, and turn the dial up to my sweet spot. i've experimented with up to six drops, but one or two per bowl is enough. more drops = a more stony high, couchlock, red eyes, etc. as expected. i've been trying this through a variety of bongs and bubblers; glycerin is water soluble so results will probably vary without water filtration. the first thing i notice, even at low temperatures, is thick, billowy clouds that seem to absorb very fast. there's an aftertaste like overripe apples, but it's not unpleasant. in the wand, the glycerin gradually melts and disperses until it's well-mixed with the herb. as ITNinja said, it hits you fast and strong, and it's long-lasting. it's the kind of full-spectrum high i had been trying to get by vaping at higher temperatures, but using lower temps where combustion isn't a risk.

    what VWFringe said about the droplet size of vaporized glycerin being too large to enter the alveoli confuses me, though. if that's the case i'd expect to be exhaling the same dense vapor cloud i can see building up rapidly in the bong, but there's almost nothing left after holding for about ten seconds. i don't have any experience with e-cigs so i don't know how fast a vaporized glycerin tincture normally absorbs, whether it be a throat hit or deep in the lungs. however i know this is working as my high is much improved, so the extracted cannabinoids in the tincture are definitely being utilized.

    acrolein formation is the biggest concern i have with this method. i tried putting a drop onto a full trench in my MFLB (also water filtered) and unfortunately did heat it enough to produce some acrolein. i knew right away because the taste was horrible, and not like anything i've had come out of the DBV. success is probably going to vary by model, and i'd be careful trying it with any vape that gets too near combustion temps or doesn't have some method of temperature control other than your breath.

    i hope some other people try this out and report their findings. considering i make about 4 fl oz of tincture per batch, i'm excited by the possibility of using it - very effectively - at a rate of only 1-2 drops per session.
     
  9. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    801
    What's weird is I was just thinking about this and here I find a post on it the exact same day!.

    Anyway, the reason why I think this is good is because it will allow concentrates to be vaped at a greater efficiency than they are now because it will break up hash/oil into smaller "pieces" and allow more surface area whereas if you leave it whole the hash/oil doesn't really break apart it just melts and hot air goes around it until it eventually vapes but you would have to put it onto something like some ground up herb or use those healthstones to help disperse the vegetable glycerin extract and keep it from congealing like hash/oil does.

    Also, the vegetable glycerin has a high boiling point so I doubt that you would have to worry about vaporizing it unless you go too high in temperature, around 530f, which nobody who's vaporizing will do unless you use a vaporizer with a bad temperature stability or you use your vaporizer on the high side of the knob with units like a dbv or other box type vaporizers that can go that high in temperature. It will just be left behind while the concentrate will boil away. I think some water is in the vg so that may also be why it gives some big clouds that go away fast but I'm not sure.

    Got to try this out.

    BTW, hashbean show how to make the tincture:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKuOik1pcNs
     
  10. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18
    just to update, i've been trying this for a few days straight now and i feel pretty comfortable saying it's safe as long as you don't get too near combustion. i don't notice any negative side effects at all from adding a drop or two of ABV glycerin tincture to a normal wand pack. the only effect is a much more "complete" high. feels like i'm getting the full range of THC -> CBD (in a ratio i can control, even), at temperatures low enough that the fresh herb still retains a good deal of the higher-temp cannabinoids for later extraction. you can get a similar effect by taking some of the tincture sublingually, waiting about 10 minutes, then vaporizing some fresh herb at a low temp. but vaporizing the glycerin instead hits you all at once, and with a miniscule amount.

    i tried something else tonight too that's pretty exciting. i added 1 drop of eucalyptus oil to ~30mL of glycerin tincture. voila... mentholated vapor! it's pretty tasty, but i think peppermint oil will be better. with the sweetness of the glycerin i'm thinking it might taste like a candy cane.

    it's interesting... what other substances could be extracted and then vaporized this way? for example, i like the effect of damiana + cannabis, but damiana doesn't vaporize all that evenly and doesn't taste very good. could i extract that into a tincture and then just have a bottle of it for dropping into the wand whenever i wanted that effect?
     
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  11. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    801
    I don't think I'm gonna try vaping with the vg because if you can taste it then some is being released maybe due to the suction creating a vacume and allowing it to boil a little at lower temps. I don't want to play with my lungs so I'm just gonna use the vg for making cannabis treats like breathe drops or to drink with at social settings.

    Good luck with your experiments.
     
  12. biojuggernaut

    biojuggernaut Snob

    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington 98133
    From my understanding zerolux also has the sugar from ever clear somewhere in his tincture. That and the Buddha's high temp might be what is causing the odd taste. I will try a glycerine wash of my avb soon and post my finding with a log vape. Seems like the best route at this point. . .
     
  13. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18
    The taste is due to several factors: it's a tincture made from AVB and wand hash, glycerin has a natural sweet flavor, and it's soluble in water so it flavors the bong water slightly. The everclear content is about 20% of the volume. 1/5th of a drop of ethanol per wand doesn't seem like a high enough concentration to be noticeable at all, except for the release of the wand hash molecules it extracted. They give a nice little extra kick. As for the temperature, one of the best surprises in my testing has been the ability to use da Buddha at lower, safer temps. I can run through a whole wand now with the dial at 1 o'clock, where without the glycerin I'd be going up to 2 or 2:30 trying to vaporize more CBD / CBN. I'm not sure what temperature log vapes are preset to, but it should be in the same neighborhood as what I'm using.
     
  14. gobbly

    gobbly Active Member

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    53
    VG is used in a lot of ecigarette liquid, it's an alternative to PG for those who might be allergic. It also has a slightly sweet taste compared to PG, and produces more visible vapor than PG. Both products have been used in medical devices such as inhalers, and there has been no evidence that either substance is harmful, other than allergic reactions.
     
  15. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
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    VG is used in ecig juice but there is a concern if you get too high in temp you produce acrolein. Ecig temps don't get that high. I'd be leery of using it in high temp vapes. Things like the Iolite that are fixed temp there is no worry of acrolein there.
     
  16. gobbly

    gobbly Active Member

    Messages:
    53
    You don't get them that hot. Nicotine vapes in the upper range of 400's f (think it's like 470 or something, you can look it up though). Devices like the iolite are set at 374f (+/- 5f). THC vapes from ~315-370, then you get CB*'s from 350-400. Anyway, herb vaping is lower temp than ecigs, and vg in ecigs has been shown to be safe in every study I am aware of.

    VG vapes around 338f, and doesn't burn till almost 800f.

    here's some more info on VG/PG http://esmokersmag.com/2009/03/25/propylene-glycol-and-vegetable-glycerine/
     
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  17. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18
    Gobbly, thats what I've been waiting to hear. So if nicotine on its own vapes much higher than the glycerin, and yet is still released safely at the lower temps of an e-cig, that implies we should be able to vaporize glycerin also as a carrier for whatever we can extract into it, right?

    The 338F point for vaporization of VG fits with my observations. I'd noticed thick glycerin vapors started appearing low in my usual temperature range, around noon on my DBV's dial. Which is great because I can start off with that, then just when the CBD/CBN-heavy tincture starts to take effect I can turn the dial up and start vaping the THC out of the layer of fresh herb. And by the time that's done... *I'm* done, heh. :ko:
     
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  18. gobbly

    gobbly Active Member

    Messages:
    53
    we're kinda hitting the point where I couldn't figure out anymore about it :) I had a correspondence once with a tech from a major ecig manufacturer and they claimed that the coils in the atty were getting hot enough to vape the nic. This was in response to me asking the same thing you did, I didn't believe that the atty was getting this hot. They responded that vg produces so much vapor, and nic is so potent, that you are certainly getting the coil that hot, it's just a tiny little heat source compared to something like an iolite. At the same time, I have seen video's where people use the iolite to vape vg based ejuice. Now they could be vaping the VG, and leaving the nic behind, or the vg could be acting as a carrier somehow for the nic.

    So that and what I posted before are really the extent of my knowledge. All the information I can find is that at the temps we're talking about both VG and PG are safe. The only valid issues I really see about the juice in ecigs (other than the obvious toxicity of nicotine) is quality control in some chinese imports.
     
  19. biojuggernaut

    biojuggernaut Snob

    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington 98133
    I have spent pretty much my entire career of use to finally find this "all natural" extract. Anyone see this replacing bho despite the fact this needs to be decarb'd first? Can anyone explain the EXACT directions on just how to make and prepare this tincture?
     
  20. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18
    i can't say this is definitive, but here's what i do and it works for me:

    - clean wands, grinders, glass parts, anything that might have some kind of usable concentrate on it with everclear.

    - put whatever amount of ABV in a wide mouth pint mason jar. pour in 80% glycerin, 20% wand hash everclear until it's the same volume as the ABV.

    - shake it up and set it somewhere out of the light.

    - shake it once in the morning and once at night, daily, for 7 days. 14 days if i'm really feeling patient.

    - put a coffee filter in a big funnel, pour in as much as will fit, and let it filter into a clean jar. it's pretty fun to watch this step, as it comes out a drop at a time. it's an amber color, looks a lot like honey.

    - for convenience i decant it into 60mL amber glass dropper bottles. bought a dozen on amazon for around $30.

    - optionally, a drop or two of eucalyptus or peppermint oil for flavor. also expands your airway when vaporized, and it's pretty soothing.

    - store it somewhere away from light and excess heat as they degrade the potency. ideally store it in amber glass bottles of some kind. i've heard a worcestershire sauce bottle works well for this.


    so it's pretty easy, requires minimal effort, and if you're vaporizing it a drop or two at a time you'll easily be able to make way more than you'll ever need. but you can also add it to drinks (it's great with coffee), take it sublingually... you can probably bake with it too but i've never tried.
     
  21. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18
    oh yeah and i don't recommend grinding the ABV to a powder consistency or anything. just leave it at whatever consistency it came out of the vaporizer. i tried a batch where i ground it to powder in a coffee grinder first, and the end result was super weak. the powdery dry herb ends up floating on top of the glycerin rather than soaking in it, and then it takes forever to filter out because the coffee filter keeps getting clogged.
     
  22. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    There are several methods to make this. Might be mentioned in cooking subforum.

    I use heat to make my VG tinctures. Low heat/double boiler method though I use a candle warmer with jar inside mug with water. I use low heat for 6-8 hours stirring here and there. VG also is much easier to strain when it is warm. I use a nylon tea strainer to strain when done heating. Very good results with my batches though haven't vaped it, just ingest it.
     
  23. momatik

    momatik Well-Known Member

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    247
    Location:
    NJ
    Very interested to hear your findings with the pd bio.
     
  24. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

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    update for anyone trying this with a DBV or similar vape: regularly adding a drop or two of glycerin tincture to the bowl changes the wand hash that builds up. obviously it'll have some glycerin in it. that's kind of a bonus because it's stickier and seems to build up faster. the glycerin being there isn't a problem if you're just using it in the next batch of tincture, but if you want the hash for dabbing or whatever it can be kind of a mess. what i've been doing is cleaning the wands with everclear, then letting it evaporate off. when i scrape the pyrex dish with a razor the glycerin tends to separate from the hash. it's super concentrated so i definitely want to use it, and that's why i go with everclear rather than iso. the hash itself is wetter than usual, but that seems to make it easier to handle even if it doesn't look that great.

    i also found it works with another vaping method. i had a set of glass hot knives from an etsy seller so i heated up the "bowl" part of it with a torch and dripped some tincture onto it, first in a well ventilated area in case it was too high a temp. it seemed to be fine, no acrolein, so i tried inhaling and it's pretty nice that way. it vaporizes almost instantly with a fast sizzling, producing tons of thick vapor that tastes great. it should work the same in an oil dome. i plan on getting one of those soon to try it out.
     
  25. zerolux

    zerolux Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18
    having tried the glycerin tincture now in both an e-cig and an oil dome now i can say it works well in both, with the e-cig being especially stealthy and efficient. still a little confused as to how the vapor is being absorbed though. when you take a tincture sublingually it's absorbing into the mucous membrane under your tongue and going straight into the bloodstream via the capillaries in the mucosa, right? so in vaporized form, is the tincture absorbing into the bronchial mucosa rather than the alveoli deep in the lungs? if it's not that, i'm not sure how to account for why i can inhale a huge cloud of thick white vapor and exhale next to nothing. where does it all go, and how does it get there within 3-5 seconds? my theory is that by vaporizing it i'm essentially spreading it much more thinly over a much larger mucous membrane than the one under my tongue, but it's still taking essentially the same route into my bloodstream (i.e., doesn't need to go through the alveoli).

    whether that's correct or not, the more i experiment with vaporizing glycerin the more certain i am that it doesn't need to be vaporized at the same temperature as whatever it extracted since it IS acting as a carrier.
     
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