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Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by stonemonkey55, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,169
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    It's all in this thread and I don't feel like digging it up. I'm not aware of any legal injunction won by VXL. Legal fees being one of the main reasons. I've talked with Seibo about this extensively and from what I recall they got screwed by the manufacturer and had no real viable options but to move on to the Evo.

    Edit: Since you edited your post I'll reply to it here:
    Do you have any evidence of a settlement other than claims the asshole manufacturer stopped selling the FakeXhales? It was clear that VXL couldn't warranty the old Clouds given the circumstances and were forced to move on to a new design.

    :peace:
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  2. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization

    No offense, but "not if VXL goes out of business" makes perfect sense. The notion that the "only thing that got better was that the bamboo is more easily replaced" is a gross technical understatement. Please, stick with the law and stay away from engineering. :) My background is in electronics product development, manufacturing, marketing, support, and finance. I spoke at length with Seibo about development processes and operating issues as he worked to launch VXL. The fact is that the OG enjoyed only limited success, primarily with experienced performance-driven vape enthusiasts, and that VXL was plagued with many of the (very costly) development and operating issues common to small consumer-electronics start-ups (especially those without any experience doing such). The Cloud was a grand learning experience but it was insufficient to fund the 2nd-generation EVO and to build up the operating side of the business. Yes, you have a valid point; it can be argued that the OG surpasses the EVO in terms of raw performance. But an electronics-industry business person will argue that much more than any particular product feature, is a product and operating model that delivers sustainable profitability - that was my point, given that the OG did not and could not do so.

    :myday::science:
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  3. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    856
    What is the difference between the OG, and the Plus. Can someone explain please. Thank you.
     
    grokit likes this.
  4. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    I told Seibo not to warranty the old clouds; he wasn't contractually obligated to at that point (against my interest because I had a couple defective units). Whether that's why he didnt choose to I have no idea, but the law is clear that he didn't have to.

    And I'll give you that I never looked into whether there was a formal suit. I could search the court records, or have a paralegal do it, or ask siebo , but your point you're trying to make has no meaning in the real world:

    Siebo talked about filing a law suit. I assumed he followed through. As a practical matter, though, either way he prevailed; litigation starts with a demand letter or communication with the opposing party. Paying a $200-300 filing fee and filing a complaint in court OR threatening to do it is the same in my book....

    Litigation, no matter how started, ends when the other side stops doing what you dont like or you get what u want. That's prevailing. A settlement agreement is not needed in such cases; people stop bad behavior when they fear the legal consequences of such behavior.

    In this case, there is zero doubt that the manufacturer was told by siebo's company to stop. They did. But for Seibo's company telling them to stop, and threatening legal consequences, they had no reason to stop. Thus, like I said Siebo prevailed.

    I guess I can amend my statement to say: "vapexhale sued, and/or threatened to sue, and prevailed" but that's splitting more hairs then most ambulance chasers even would do.

    Vapexhale could have found a new manufacturer for clouds, but chose to create the evo. The warranty issue was not a deciding factor; they just made a new product and moved on.

    During all that time, Ebay for sure deleted the link for unauthorized units. That was immediately after after I emailed seibo a link of the unauthorized sales and he thanked me for that. The fact that the units stopped being sold on Ebay demonstrates Seibo prevailed, i.e., the bad behavior stopped for whatever reason after vapexhale threatened legal consequences....

    The last quote is exactly what I said. All the engineering in the evo failed to out perform the cloud. So that engineering failed in my book. All I really care about is performance in a desktop unit. I mean the units are basically the same, one just does not perform as well....

    And the quote still doesn't make sense. I said the Cloud's performance is better and that performance is all that matters when comparing the two units. That's my opinion. Cloud = better than evo because it performs better.

    What does bankruptcy have to do with my opinion that the cloud performs better than the evo??!!


    And, yes, the only thing that got better with the evo was that it can more easily replace the bamboo. The evo certainly does not perform better.

    I guarantee anyone who has both (which I do), who puts them side by side and uses both, will reach for the cloud seven days a week and twice on Sunday if best performance is what is desired. (Granted they both perform well---but the cloud is the clear winner.... my evo gets a lot of dust.... and only gets to whistle at me when I go some where and dont mind risking breaking the poorer performing evo.... despite all of its wasted, new, "engineering"...)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2018
  5. mestizo

    mestizo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    856
    Sounds like my sex life, my vote goes to the Cloud then, lol.
    Seeing you know so much about them can you answer the question I asked about the difference between the original Cloud, and the Plus? I just got one as a gift and wanted to know.
     
    Brewervapesalot likes this.
  6. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    The first cloud i had was a ticker unit. They literally make a faint ticking sound. That to me was the original cloud. Then the cloud plus came out and wasn't much different, just minus the clicking and had a shorter cord. If there was a unit before the ticker, I can't remember...
     
    mestizo likes this.
  7. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,776
    I don't have an EVO, but I do have a Cloud that doesn't tick, so I've presumed it's a Cloud Plus. I'm really happy with it, though I baby it knowing that when/if it dies, it's dead. Can you expand upon the differences between the originals and the EVO?
     
  8. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,169
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    My point wasn't about splitting legal hairs about whether there was a lawsuit or not, it was that when you said:
    you made it sound like they were free an clear to sell more clouds. They didn't have access to their inventory, and no way to repair the many, many clouds that were breaking at the time. It's not like they just said "great that legal battle is over, let's stop selling them now". They had nothing to sell. Could they have started from scratch with a new manufacturer with the old design? I guess. But they were forward thinking and took the opportunity to come out with a better product. Whether you think the product is better or not is irrelevant here.

    Just look at the second post in this thread by vtac. That pretty much explains the situation at the time.

    I'm not sure why you didn't think they were responsible to honor Cloud warranties. Can you shed more info on that? VXL wouldn't have survived financially had they been forced to honor the warranties so Seibo did what he could to assist the broken Cloud owners by offering them a discount on the Evo in lieu of warranty repair (remember, they had no way to even fix them even if they have wanted to).

    So my challenge to your statement is more about VXL's intent. They didn't just "choose to create the Evo instead". There is a lot more to that story as we all know.

    :peace:
     
  9. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    The ticker looks just like a cloud plus. The ticker I think was made in house. Can't remember. The cloud plus was supposed to better with some tweaking to the units. Different heater I think. The cloud plus and ticker look the same. The cloud plus has a shorter cord because federal regulators are obnoxious and have retarded rules.

    I have some cloud pluses still going too. Not all are defective. When they break its because of a poor spot weld that some have fixed after the fact.

    The evo is basically the same unit. But its plastic instead of metal. It's got a new heater that let's you change a broken bamboo easier. The engineer types probably will geek out and say the evo has all kinds of "engineering" like new programming and such. The cord is detachable.

    Bottom line the evo, despite all the new engineering, does not perform as well as any cloud. It also whistles which make me want to use as target practice half the time. The evo was designed for use with concentrates the cloud was not. Funny thing is that the cloud works better with concentrates or flower. All units get hotter than a whore house on nickle night.

    Again, if there was a unit before the ticker I can't remember
     
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  10. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213

    Vapexhale has not gone out of business as far as I know. Instead of buying parts for evo's, and instead of R & D for evo's, they could have simply bought parts from new places for new clouds. Then sold new clouds. Probably easier to do otherwise, i agree, but no legal impediment.

    Lots of companies supply upgraded models when an older model is no longer in production. It's more marketing good PR than anything else. Vapexhale said nah we'll offer a discount for new different unit. And they had every right to do whatever they wanted (and take the consequences of the bad PR). To answer your question, the defective clouds were purposely sabotaged by the unauthorized, pirating, manufacturer and the/our/vapexhale's warranties simply didn't cover such circumstance.

    Look at the evo's warranty today posted online: it even more expressly states things like acts of piracy are not covered:

    "This Limited Warranty does not apply to a) damage due to acts of God, accident, misuse, abuse, negligence, acts of piracy... "

    https://www.xhl3.com/pages/warranty-information
     
  11. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,169
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    I'm surprised to learn that warranties are null and void if the seller gets screwed by a supplier/manufacturer. I'm no lawyer, so I don't assert otherwise, but it sure seems odd to me.

    Who said they went out of business?

    :peace:
     
  12. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    It's not a matter of "null and void"; it's a matter of what kind of damage is covered and what kind of damage is not covered by a warranty. A good warranty, from a company's perspective, only covers damage caused by things within the company's control. Plus most state (common) law is in line with this type of provision. The legal doctrines are "impossibility" and "impracticability."

    I say didnt vapexhale had gone out of business. I said that as a way to imply that anyone could have sued Vapexhale for not honoring the warranty (Vapexhale was in business.. ). But no one did sue because we implicitly understood (without even looking at the warranty or the law) that under the circumstances Vapexhale should not be held to the warranty...

    So it doesnt seem odd to me at all...
     
  13. newVaper420

    newVaper420 Vapor Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,666
    I personally have never used both the Cloud and the Evo side by side.... But I don’t really feel there is much difference between the units, minus the whistling. I can still milk these hydratubes like there is no tomorrow.

    Edit: side note, my first Evo had no whistling. I had to get I repaired recently and now it whistles. Must be how they make the bamboo.
     
  14. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    True enough for most. But I vape a lot for chronic pain. And tolerance gets high. I want large clouds at lower temperatures. Easier on the lungs and throat while still medicating in fewer draws. That's where the cloud exceeds the evo performance wise: the cloud produces thicker, potent, clouds at lower temps. The evo tends to need to be at a slightly higher temp to get consistent clouds. Evos are just more temperamental, basically. It's a small difference but it definitely exists. You know because you reach for the cloud not the evo way more often than not....

    Clouds also have less draw resistance, IME.

    Also as to the warranty issue, it helps to understand that a warranty is not an insurance policy. A warranty covers defects reasonably within the control of the company. It's part of the original sale. It's more narrow than insurance in what it covers. An insurance policy, typically bought as an add on, will typically be broader in coverage (or no one would buy it)..
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  15. newVaper420

    newVaper420 Vapor Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,666
    FYI, I also vape for chronic pain ;-). And I always go for Evo (but again, i never had original cloud to compare to LOL) ;-)
     
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  16. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    For anyone is Washington state, I'm happy to have fun old comparison session of evo's and clouds. Worse case, we just get really medicated and forget which one we like more..... :) LOL
     
  17. newVaper420

    newVaper420 Vapor Enthusiast

    Messages:
    1,666
    Oh man I wish :-)
     
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  18. Ripbongs420

    Ripbongs420 vapiff

    Messages:
    431
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    FWIW @Brewervapesalot The tickers were the first Clouds made. I also agree that they outperform the EVO in a absolutely noticeable way. :2c: :peace:
     
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  19. Wildeyedzan

    Wildeyedzan Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    86
    Are there any of the tickers out there for sale anywhere ?legit vapexhale tickers that is.
     
    Brewervapesalot likes this.
  20. jpdnkstr

    jpdnkstr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    722
    Location:
    Third Coast
    Sorry... Mine's not going anywhere! Aside from the wonderful performance, I love the little ticking noise!
     
  21. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    213
    Be on the lookout, but dont put off buying an Evo because you want a ticker instead. It will take a while to find a ticker for sale and the new Evo's are the best vaporizers currently made by anyone IMO. The difference is noticable but they're both A+ vaporizers..
     

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