1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

VapeXhale Cloud EVO

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by stonemonkey55, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. almost legal

    almost legal Member

    Messages:
    14
    I'd read somewhere here in the 700 pages, that someone's whistle had disappeared only to return after they had given the bamboo a clean.

    Btw here's a link to vapefiends review where you can clearly hear the whistle, mine's at least as loud, or was till I put the filter on.
    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    ataxian likes this.
  2. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization


    Simple question, not so simple answer. I hesitate to write a long blah-blah, but what the hell, maybe this fluid dynamics stuff interests someone . . .

    The whistle is the product of airflow oscillation that occurs in the chamber between the two orifices in the bamboo, somewhat like a teapot whistle or a human whistle. The EVO sound will vary not only with the force of airflow (your draw) but also the geometry of the bamboo (the diameter of the orifices). If an EVO doesn't whistle no matter how hard it's pulled, it means the diameters are more open. An EVO that whistles even with a softer draw has a tighter geometry. The challenge VXL faced with this design (which enables the EVO's exceptional extraction efficiency) is that the orifice specification is difficult to achieve in the manufacturing process; the trick is to stay within the +/- tolerance range. VXL uses a tool to QA the orifice, but like with the manufacturing process, there is some imprecision. So a given EVO with its particular geometry mated to a particular user's draw (with possibly the glass piece being a factor) may or may not produce the whistle, but if it does, the whistle will be at the frequency that these factors together uniquely create. The EVO theory of operation is that optimum extraction efficiency correlates to that point where the airflow begins to create the sound (or there is no sound). There is a difference between the Cloud bamboo and the EVO bamboo, but the fundamental design is the same. IIRC the Cloud was more open and the whistling effect was encountered much less frequently than with the EVO; still, the EVO is more efficient. All that said, sometimes an EVO has a bamboo with an uncomfortably loud whistle; if changing technique doesn't correct this or doing so reduces performance (despite adjusting temp), IMHO it's time to query after a different bamboo.

    Btw, this has nothing to do with accommodating the nail. It's a design decision that originated with the first Cloud, long before the nail was thought of.


    Anything that affects the bamboo airflow can conceivably result in an oscillation change, i.e., whistle, no whistle, different whistle.


    :myday::sherlock::science:
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  3. Ripbongs420

    Ripbongs420 vapiff

    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    The clouds bottom hole is definitely more wide open, and the washers are much higher up in the bamboo. It does seem to work right if i keep it below whistling speed. It just was a huge bummer from the get-go that to really milk the EVO I had to slow my pull speed drastically. I know I am not the only one who found that with the old cloud the harder you pulled the thicker the vapor. That's not true with my EVO. It is like it cant keep up. And I never heard a case of the cloud whistling, and if one did it would be considered a flaw.

    If not for accommodating the nail why did they drop the washers so far down? For "efficiency" of extraction? My clicker cloud (first gen) is way more efficient IMO. I want to love the EVO like I do my cloud but other than weight the cloud just out-preforms for me. I haven't had someone hit both and disagree either FWIW.

    Maybe I just prefer big thick hits than optimum extraction.
     
    BigJr48, Brewervapesalot and ataxian like this.
  4. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization


    My intention was only to explain the design. It may very well have been that there was a later change in orifice position to accommodate the nail, but that was not a consideration in the first generation nor in the earlier improvements made. The bamboo in my Fanatic unit needed to be replaced because it was too tight, and I, like you, would have been unhappy if I couldn't get that corrected. If a more recent change was made for the nail and that caused more of the whistling issue, well, then VXL would appear to have a problem there.

    Btw, I could get a whistle out of my OG if I pulled hard enough but as you point out, that was unusual. I agree with you about the OG; it was (and still is) a beast. With my units, while I also can get a huge cloud out of the OG, at the same time what I get out of my upgraded EVO is equally satisfactory.


    :myday::peace:
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  5. Poostuff

    Poostuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    493
    I would have preferred VapeXhale to have released a flower only Evo as well as a hybrid. They have the tech to make a great concentrate vape & a great flower one. I’m not sure if a hybrid was really required here, obviously it reaches a broader market which is better for sales.
     
    Brewervapesalot and ataxian like this.
  6. bener4

    bener4 Vapeologist

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Thanks for such a great explanation of the physics behind this!!! It makes sense and helps me understand what's at play here! :tup:



    I love being able to use my EVO for both flowers and concentrates. I really enjoy being able to do concentrates without the need for torches, etc. My dabbing friends who do own conventional rigs, really are impressed by the EVO. The biggest downside, to me, to using the EVO with concentrates is keeping the nails clean. I have found that being diligent about cleaning the nails after a session has given me the best, easiest to achieve results.

    I am curious, though ... What do you think would be different in an EVO that focused solely on flower? I mean in terms of design, operation, etc.
     
    BigJr48 and ataxian like this.
  7. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization


    After posting above, I realized that when the nail was introduced it was of course backward compatible with all the EVO's already sold. :doh: So while the bamboo on the EVO was probably different than in the Cloud OG (I confess I didn't compare them, and I don't wanna do it at the moment, either), the location of the EVO's chamber had to already be such that it could accommodate the nail. I suppose it's possible that later the bamboo & nail were improved to work better together (without compromising using that nail with older units), I just don't know.

    The EVO was designed solely for flower. At beta and release (4+ years ago) I can't recall any discussion about dabbing. It may have been because it was obvious the EVO had no way to dab or because nails were still relatively new at the time, but either way the only focus was on flowers. So the glass nail was VXL's retrofit to use a flower machine for concentrates.


    :myday::peace:
     
  8. bener4

    bener4 Vapeologist

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I was checking that out too -- to me, it looks like the Lynx but designed to work without a whip.

    Here's what Seibo has to say about it:
    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    gaseous_clay, CHIDOY and ataxian like this.
  9. mixchu69

    mixchu69 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,998
    Big fan of the mouthpiece design on the calyx and affordable. I think @ataxian will approve of the mouthpiece.
     
  10. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,835
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    The MOUTHPIECE is so advanced!

    CIVILIZED = 2 DA MAX

    DESIGN of the YEAR! (EARTH)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  11. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    haha...absolutely.

    Yeah, it looks like some sort of G spot vibrator but I may get one....just because its smaller and I like the MP.

    P.S. - fuggedaboutit....why wait, I just ordered one. :-)
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  12. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

    Messages:
    11,835
    Location:
    Pacific Ocean
    This water-piece is many thing's?

    I just bought a WP. (This week)
    Next month I will get one as well!

    VAPEXHALE has came up with a great design!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  13. JohnDank

    JohnDank Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Southern California
    has anyones evo ever just stayed on green without giving u the blinking lights for the 1 hour timer? i turned the nob and no matter what it stayed green and there was no heat being produced. when i flicked the power on and off it turned red
     
  14. Poostuff

    Poostuff Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    493
    Mostly the temperature range which obviously needs to be a lot higher for concentrates. Mine has been more prone to combustion than the Cloud was & I attribute that to the higher temperature ceiling.
    It’s sometimes easier with a plugin vape dedicated to flower to just put it on it’s highest setting for top performance & vape away with no concern about combustion.

    The temperature settings on the Evo are a bit of a guessing game & on each one I’ve had they’ve been slightly different & also change with a good heat sink. Finding the sweet spot isn’t alway easy on some units.

    I like the Evo I think it’s a great vape that I highly recommend but I don’t use it as much as I’d like to because of inconsistent results.
    I think if it was flower only it might not be such a struggle to consistently achieve the huge clouds that I expect from it.
     
  15. Ripbongs420

    Ripbongs420 vapiff

    Messages:
    435
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    The differences are that the OG bamboo is wide open and flared a bit at the bottom and the washers are higher (nail would hit first washer easily). EVO's bottom is throttled to the size of the washer openings and the washers are dropped way down. Here's a quick mock up for a visual (lines are washer locations)
    [​IMG]

    I also don't recall any talk of the nail at the time, but that makes me wonder why they dropped the washers so far down which seems to cause the whistle.
     
  16. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    302
    Really just limited by air restriction and pull by packing too tight.... the unit does not care about grind or pack specifics.... largely...

    My evo is loud like that. Pretty sure it has to with the bamboo. Vapexhale exchanged a couple bamboos with me, but all vary in whistling.

    Sidestory: I gave an extra bamboo to a pal when his busted, installed it because a warranty ticket was taking forever for him, and vapexhale later told him that his warranty was void when he mentioned that during another repair ticket for another broken bamboo!

    I think that is bs... they gave me extra bamboos to install my self then void his warranty?! Why they don't sell extra bamboos for self install for evos is beyond me.. it's easy to do and should be made easy to get replacement bamboos for issues like this and for when breakage occurs.

    Anyway, the evos compared to the original clouds have tighter/smaller holes than the originals. I think this was to help create turbulence in the air flow, particularly for oils and concentrate use. The problem was IMO is that the clouds were designed for flower and Evos were a similar design with bamboo. They increased the temp available with evo for concentrates, tried to increase efficiency, that's how I remember it anyway... and they also kept tinkering with programming--while in production-- to accommodate concentrate use then or for use with later nail like add on devices...

    All in all I rarely use my evo and just use my original ticker cloud. I tried to love the evo--even have a lifetime warranty from the old promotion. But the ticker cloud has no whistle and has easier draw resistance and produces bigger clouds with flower at lower temps.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2018
  17. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization


    There are many conceivable reasons for changing the bamboo. It may have had nothing to do with features or performance, could have been solely for manufacturing or cost reasons. I don't think we know. I would be surprised if accommodating the future nail was a factor in changing the bamboo - it seems weird that there was a definite "no" to concentrates when the EVO was released, if VXL had actually already designed the EVO with that in mind. I always looked at the nail as VXL's best attempt at enabling concentrates on a machine not originally intended to do that. In other words, the nail seems like a workaround to me. I agree that some of the later tweaks were probably done with concentrates in mind.

    :myday::peace:
     
  18. Brewervapesalot

    Brewervapesalot Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    302
    A lot of what I said was based on talking with the owner via email and/or on phone as well company reps on the phone and email.

    My damn evo would not stop whistling. It still whistles. Siebo said "it may whistle but you'll get massive clouds." Nice enough guy, but they basically cant control which ones whistle or not. The Evo bamboo holes are smaller so whistling is more likely was my take away.

    To be clear, I told them I wanted a bamboo with the biggest damn holes in it to reduce restriction (like the original cloud) and help it stop the whistling. They said hole sized varied and whistling varied and they did have performance reasons for changing the bamboo. That's why the cloud holes were bigger/differently placed.

    In the end, they were comfortable just mailing me new bamboos to install myself but none helped. All of the new bamboos had holes that were also much smaller than the original clouds holes in the bamboo. All whistled to different degrees.

    I know they were tweaking things for concentrate use because they kept telling me the changes, e.g., whistling, were better for concentrate and I kept replying that I don't use concentrates.... I only use flower and they should just make a bamboo ONLY for flower use.

    EDIT TO ADD email from Seibo:

    From: Seibo Shen
    Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2016 7:57 PM
    To: [deleted]
    Subject: Re: 01.20.14 ebay clouds

    [My name]

    I looked long and hard and found one but it still whistles. Substantially less than the others but there are none that do not whistle. We had to change some things around for the EVO to use oils and to still get the same extraction with herbs…. just wanted to let you know before you got it.

    Warm Regards,

    Seibo Shen

    Founder & CEO

    VapeXhale



    They basically said they would think about it... but they never did make bamboos specialized for flower and other bamboos specialized for concentrate. I don't think they have the control in manufacturing. My take away was that new evos need tighter holes anyway, probably to be more effiicient work with the different heater. But thats a guess.

    They never did sell bamboos directly... but they should. :)

    And they should sell them specialized for flower use with the least amount of draw resistance possible... :) lol.

    My 2 cents, and reliving of this frustration... lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2018
  19. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

    Messages:
    4,306
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I’d love a cloud style bamboo option. I greatly prefer to dab concentrates. This is a flower vape by design, I wish that stayed a priority.
     
  20. Buildozer

    Buildozer Baked & Fried

    Messages:
    1,692
    Personally I always felt like the OG bamboo ripped harder, quicker and more consistently, but as I recall, I felt the EVO had better flavor.. That said, I'd be into a flower only bamboo for the EVO designed more like the OG bamboo.. I almost never use my EVO anymore.. maybe I just got one of the ones w/ weak firmware or w/e :shrug:

    @Ripbongs420 I haven't seen you around for a while! You set me up w/ TWD comic collection a while back! :cheers:

    :peace:
     
  21. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,080
    I'm with you guys and others....EVO is a flower machine to me and its seems using concentrates in one was kind of an afterthought.

    I generally do NOT run concentrates through my flower vapes...just makes a mess and I prefer an enail dab in any case. Exception is the occasional flower/'trates/flower sandwich in an S&B dosing capsule in either the Mighty or Volcano.
     
  22. oldiebutgoodie

    oldiebutgoodie Apostle, Church of Vaporization


    Good grief, what a royal PITA! Thanks a lot for the post and additional information. It is good to know that the bamboo was changed to accommodate the nail. I agree 100%, there should be a flowers bamboo and anything done to add concentrate functionality should not have compromised the original design. This probably also explains why my EVO doesn't whistle; my bamboo was replaced early, before talk of the nail. And it appears that whether the bamboo is replaced now by VXL or the user, it will still be tight. I guess VXL made a business decision that impacted their relationship with some flower users in exchange for gaining some concentrate users. I understand that, but I don't like it.

    Thanks again for the added clarity.


    :myday::peace:
     
  23. Socks And Sandals

    Socks And Sandals Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    California
    Hey guys,

    This might sound like a stupid question but are these really legit? They say that they are an authorized dealer and are warranty approved. Has anyone bought these Quartz from Planet Vape who have also used the ones they sell at the official website? I know these are probably the same exact nails but I thought It wouldn't hurt to ask.

    I only dab once or twice a week, which is why I wasn't keen on paying $90 for five. Just wanted to ask if anyone has used these nails from Planet Vape.

    Thanks!

    https://www.planetvape.ca/vapexnail-quartz-essential-oils-attachment.html
     
    ataxian and Summer like this.
  24. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,343
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    Yeah, they're legit.

    :peace:
     
  25. Socks And Sandals

    Socks And Sandals Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    215
    Location:
    California
    I just had to hear it from someone! Thanks Stu!!!:tup:
     
    ataxian, His_Highness and Summer like this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors