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Vape-Or-Smoke Vaporizer

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by stinkmeaner, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. max

    max This space available Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,828
    The instructions are hopefully better than the ones I saw. And you said yourself that you think you avoided combustion by adding two screens. I wouldn't say the operation is necessarily difficult. IMO it's just not intuitive without good instructions.
  2. HindenPeter

    HindenPeter Vape-or-Smoker

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    That's what I thought... You need to put the pawl in first and slide the lighter onto the pawl. If you look at the cradle, there're some indentations that are there to hold the pawl into place. If you place it on top, it will break the lighter due to increased stress. This is a fairly common mistake, and it's the mistake I made with my first VoS. I'm sorry to say that this is a user error, and not a problem with the lighters. I've got your box ready and will be giving you a call later today.

    About my wording in my last post... I apologize for my insensitivity. It's a word I hear far too often in every day speech, and I slipped it in without thinking. That's no excuse; I should know better, especially since my nephew is Autistic... I am sincerely sorry to those I have offended.

    "Face of VoS" - I see what you mean. This is the only thread I've posted in that kept going, and I didn't have an interest in any of the other vapes here; I don't own any of them, and can't afford to buy any of them, so until I can there's not really any reason to ask peoples' opinions. I came here because I saw people were concerned that the VoS was a hoax or a scam or something, and that didn't sit well with me because of my friends inside the company, so I volunteer my time making sure people aren't misinformed or mistreated.

    Directions - They've become significantly better. It's a little booklet now with pictures and stuff, super easy to follow now. I can't even remember what the original directions were, but the latest are great.

    I've never heard of anyone deforming the housing! I'm kind of impressed, actually. If you still have that VoS I'd really like to see that. And no, I didn't think you were joking, I meant, "Are you serious?" as a sign of surprise and disbelief. I was very surprised to read that someone actually managed to deform the VoS.

    treecityrnd, there's a reason I don't have my real name tied to any online account; I'm here for the anonymity, yo. And the fact that I got it past TSA without any issues should speak for itself on stealth to some degree. Note that I was vaporizing tobacco at the time, which is as legal as using an e-cig on a plane (except for the flame).

    Also, I can't imagine any Ellensburg cops would come knocking on my door because we happened to escape by the seat of our pants one time, especially considering they have no evidence there was ever any illegal activity taking place inside the car save my friend's speeding. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I know what I can and cannot say online. inb4 quoting my last post.

    Once again, I am so sorry for my language in my previous post.
  3. Dberm

    Dberm Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    125
    Yea I will say that it took some thinking outside the box but nothing too crazy. Since I've never used it without the two screen trick I can't comment on the learning curve without the additional screens. I'm not too mechanically inclined or anything like that either.

    And although I have never used one, my friends tell me that the MFLB has a decent learning curve to it in the sense that you have to hit it like a vape whereas with the VOS you can seriously rip it as hard as you want like a pipe.

    Hinden Ellensburg is an extremely sketchy place to be doing anything! They have what... 5 police departments in town? My friends door got booted in while I was there and he rarely smokes or does anything. By the way, have you used the VOS for snowboarding? I saw those videos at Stevens and that's what really sold me.


    -merged
    By the way Hinden any word on when the new bowl piece will be available? I help out over at Puffin Glass over on 45th and I've been repping these things since I first got my hands on it. Also do they actually have any of the customized bowl pieces with the flame effect made?
  4. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Thanks Peter for the info on the installation of the lighter...

    I have to tell you I 'm having a hard time trying to understand why the installation procedure for the pawl that is apparent on the owner's manual would have anything to do with the piezo not working.
    Anyway, on page 11, assembly instructions, in figure 1 the lighter can be seen, by itself, being lowered onto the vos cradle. On figure number 2 on the assembly instructions on page 11 the pawl is illustrated being slid into the already cradled lighter, followed by figure 3 positioning the mouthpiece.

    I think rather than user error we have shitty lighters and confusing (based on your idea of how it goes on) instructions.The "I knew it" implies that you never believed it was the lighters to begin with, but that I somehow couldn't put a 7? piece item together, even with an instruction book. I know when the pawl is in there right and when it is wrong, and I don't force anything anywhere, I'm not in a hurry. Why don't you and the folks at vos try and figure out how to solve the shitty lighter problem instead of trying to find blame on what the customers do, even when it is following the mfg's instructions? This sort of thing makes you loose credibility, no offense intended.
  5. HindenPeter

    HindenPeter Vape-or-Smoker

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Actually I thought you were just getting shitty lighters until my second to last post... It was only then that I thought, "Hey... maybe he's accidentally putting the pawl in wrong... happens all the time." because a lot of people like to do things on their own, and say "fuck it" to the instructions. I had no idea the instructions were telling you to do it incorrectly, and upon examination of my instruction booklet, I see you're absolutely right. Suppose I should've taken a gander at that before now, but I never needed it... I was shown by VoS people how to do everything properly. I'll be calling one of the folks I know after I post this about that, cuz that's something that should not have been overlooked.
    EDIT: I just noticed something! The instruction book doesn't lie; if you look closely it shows that you insert the pawl from the top with the pawl at an angle, and then there's a tiny arrow on B that's nearly impossible to see that shows that you're supposed to flip the pawl over, and after that it should be inserted properly. I just gave this a try with my VoS, and it does in fact work, but I really cannot blame you for missing that. Unfortunately my contact didn't answer, so I left a message letting him know that the instructions are misleading, and hopefully I'll hear back from him later today.
    EDIT 2: Found a video on proper pawl placement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH5R20LeQi8

    As for solving the shitty lighter problems, that's already being worked on, as I've alluded to several times in this thread. The Chinese lighter manufacturer hasn't been very good about providing a quality product, so the VoS folks are working on developing a brand new, built-for-VoS lighter with an American company that should eliminate all current lighter problems, and make vaporizing even easier.

    Dberm, unfortunately I haven't heard anything about a release date for the new bowls. I'll talk to my contact about that as well. As for using it while snowboarding, I have! I used it this last season every single time I went up. Never had troubles taking hits on the lift, or even while snowboarding at 40+mph down a really, really steep hill. I also mentioned a few pages back that I've used it in a car going 70mph with all 4 windows rolled down.
  6. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    As of today I've yet to hear from vos about my problem. Since you are not an employee, I consider this unacceptable. Apparently even you are having trouble hearing from vos...

    There's no excuse for ignoring customer service issues, even if it's to tell me to go climb a tree.

    Peter, it sounds like you have an explanation for everything. Sounds too defensive friend, as I said before, you are loosing credibility when you ignore the real issue and try to make some funky logic about how the lighters are breaking. The fact is the lighters are breaking when used per mfg's instructions. The fact that you offered to send me 5 or 6 of these is little comfort, and a red flag that you are well stocked with lighters for a reason. The other real issue is the fact that vos has completely and utterly told me (by inaction) to go climb a tree.

    Even with your logic, and even if I wasn't gingerly installing these pawls as to not to have to buy another lighter, I still don't see how the piezo is being damaged being that it is inside the lighter under the top lighter button that actually actuates the pieso, so you have no contact between the pieso and the pawl. Not to mention that it has never failed right after reinstalling, in my experience electronics either work or don't, very rarely do they limp along to failure.

    I ordered a new lighter last Friday, and I will sell my vos. I will make sure to let whoever buys this piece that lighters are a routine maintenance thing every month or so at around 20 bucks. At least they can choose to do that or not. Hell, I may have gone for that if told upfront, I've pissed away 20 bucks on nothing many times before. My beef with these folks is that they do not stand behind their product and ignore or at the very least take their sweet ass time to give a shit.

    If I can't sell it, I'll bury it in the backyard because I will never again buy anything from vos.
  7. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Peter,
    I just watched the "pawl install" and it is being installed exactly as I described I was doing it
    and following mfg's instructions, I have no idea what you are talking about otherwise...
  8. Zippo024

    Zippo024 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    PA
    Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with your vos babalao, and for the record i have had my vos that i won from puffitup.com since march, been using it fairly frequently and my original lighter is still running fine. I've only put xikar and colibri in the lighter since then, so i guess that it is just chance as to whether you get a good lighter or not.

    With that said, the way that i understood to insert the pawl is very different than what has recently been stated as the correct way, as i originally understood and have been doing, is to insert the pawl first, and then put the lighter on, making sure the pawl is going inside the groove thing on the lighter button. It is impossible for the pawl to fall out this way unless you take the lighter itself out.

    As far as the vos goes itself, i really like it as it is the most convenient piece that i have. The build quality is really good, and it feels really sturdy while using it. Mine also has a little melty looking spot right where the lighter is from having the flame too low a couple of times, but it doesnt seem to affect the taste or anything. Instant vapor/smoke anytime anywhere, while being small and discrete. I really like the ashcatcher, it functions very well and noticeably reduces particulates being inhaled. I sold my mflb to a friend b/c i was in need of money, so this is my main portable now.

    While i have been able to achieve pure vapor from this device, it has a much larger learning curve than any other vape i've used. You have to stir it every hit or else it will likely scorch the material. I use the long screen to cover the flame intake holes, and a cut down screen in the bottom of the bowl, so it just fits the small hole at the bottom. This enables you to use more material in one load, because optimally you want your material level below the flame intake holes to minimize the chance of scorching. if you use the full round screen on the bottom, you really cant fit much in there and still be below the intake holes.

    Although i have been able to achieve pure vaporization this way, its too much hassle for regular use, and as i still smoke on occasion, ive been using the "sub combustion" feature on this much more than vaping. None of my friends can vape with it, they always scorch the load anyways so i use it as my out and about pipe to get a quick hit. It is much more efficient than any other combustion piece, and really nice to use one handed while driving. And, it gives the BIGGEST hits. All my friends that use it are blown away by how hard it hits when using it for smoking. I dont mind that its harder to vape with than my other vapes because i got it for free, but i can see how someone would be frustrated if they purchased it to vape with as it isnt the easiest or most consistent device for that purpose.

    Where it really shines is concentrates, instant huge clouds of vapor! ive just been stacking a couple screens and putting a drop or two of bho in it and am very pleased with its function for this purpose. Probably the best portable device for concentrates for sure. I am highly considering getting the atomizer to make it work even better with concentrates.

    If you want a good portable vape to only vape your herbs with, i wouldn't be able to recommend the vos as strongly as say, the mflb, but if you're into concentrates i would highly recommend it, as it really shines in that area, and can still be used to vape herbs with some practice. Overall though i really like this thing! I havent vaped with it in a while so ill have to try it again soon and let you guys know how it goes. Happy vaping! :)
  9. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Thanks Zippo024
    I couldn't agree with you more. I actually love the vos, minus the lighter; and, I can't get over the big snob I got from vos.
    HindenPeter has offered help but according to him he's not with vos, so that's not vos coming to the rescue. What if he were not here to clean up after them? I think I may have pissed him off by calling him on some of his statements to me and others here, but I'm not too worried about that. The truth maybe an offense, but it is not a sin, someone wiser then me once said. Thanks to him for his effort. No hard feelings here, just stating the facts as I see them. I have been respectful to everyone here, even in dissent.
    If anyone can point to any particular error in my handling of the vos, which I have described in detail above, let me know. Otherwise I've used this piece as directed by the mfg. and after watching many videos in youtube from vos themselves as to how to operate.

    I do not know why my lighters are failing, I have not seen much feedback from other folks about it but according to sources close to vos they know it is a bad lighter and are working on a replacement. I have tried to be very careful with it, and treat it with kid's gloves. Maybe one day I'll run into one of those long lasting ones I keep hearing about.

    The real issue is what vos is doing now while I have to buy lighters every other month.
  10. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Just received my 5th lighter in the mail from Mr Vapo, ca-shing!!!!
    No Word from vos about anything as of right now. nice...
  11. dadankskunk

    dadankskunk Active Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hey, long time lurker here but I registered just to put my input into the vape or smoke.

    I finally got some bud last night, some ridiculously compressed Hash and some kind of kush, dank stuff.

    This thing rips like a beast. I'm glad I got this. Right out the box I installed the three screens and I haven't burnt any bud and this thing vaporizes with huge clouds. I've learned the trick to get good vaporization is pretty much the same as the MFLB. You have to vary how quickly your sucking in the air in order to keep the temperature where you prefer. Although, with the MFLB you have to have a slow intake but with this, it's the opposite. I tend to have to keep a very fast airflow, almost like I'm taking a deep breath as quickly as possible. I haven't adjusted the flame settings at all either, I just used this thing straight out the box. I couldn't find anything in the directions about adjusting the flame, so I just went on with it. What I like most though is being able to take massive rips out of this. For showing off you know~:lol:
    This is a great piece, do you think I could take a piece like this onto airplanes though? Not to smoke, just for traveling.

    The only downsides I see for this is how hot the bowl gets. With Hash it definitely gets very very hot.

    I'll also post anything if my lighter stops working, it seems that is an issue for some.

    Here's a vid of me and my hash vapor clouds
  12. Dberm

    Dberm Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    125
    Hey baba any chance you're not bleeding the lighters regularly? I don't know if this could be connected at all, but I know that the lighter fill area gets pressurized and so I just bleed off the excess pressure by pushing down on the fill valve while the lighter is upside down.

    Like I said no idea if this is connected, but if you're getting cracks in your lighter this could be a source.
  13. elevation

    elevation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    220
    Is that Vapor or Smoke in that vid :o
    Truly impressed..is this thing great for hash? I like vaping and i don't like smoking hash..
  14. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    I finally heard from VOS today. They sound very contrite about the long response time (9 days) and offered to send me a lighter and a free screen pack.Good start. I sort of let them have it a bit, and let them know it was gonna take a bit more than that to make a satisfied customer out of me. Someone is supposed to call me later to talk to me about the lighter problem. Fine. Below are the details, well see what happens and how soon. The only edit from original conversation was my phone number for obvious reasons.

    (from VOS)
    Dear Ovidio,
    I apologize for taking so long in responding to your emails, it appears our email ticketing system has been missing some of our emails. We will get this matter taken care of right away. Can you please tell me what brand of butane you are using? And can you tell me if you clean your Vape-or-Smoke on a regular basis? In the meantime, we will send you another free lighter. Would you like another free screen pack as well? We would also like to send you a prepaid postage box to have the damaged lighters returned for inspection. I would also like to know if you would be able to do a video conference via skype regarding this matter? We have never experienced this high volume of lighter failure with any of our customers and would like to rectify this situation as soon as possible. The last two lighters were personally inspected by the principles of the company, and this issue needs to be taken care of immediately. Thank you again for your patience and for your support of the Vape-or-Smoke.

    Best regards,
    Dave

    (my reply)
    Hi
    I have been eagerly awaiting your reply. I believe I emailed you more than a week ago. (11th)

    I have only used Vector butane 5x from the beginning,I have one can in my house and one in my car. I have taken apart the vos about once a week or so and clean with 91 iso and a q-tip. I know the pawl is sort of a pain, so I usually, put it in after the lighter is lined up in its "cradle", as per your user manual. . The first lighter, I noticed it wasn't getting as hot as usual so after looking at it closely I noticed the filament in the flame orifice was broken. The next day the piezo stopped clicking and or sparking. I also noticed that the plastic body on the lighter had hairline cracks everywhere, I do not know why only the first one did this particular thing.. The second lighter lasted even less time, same problem, first the filament, then the piezo. At this point I realize something is up with the lighters, so I start being extra careful not to bump it into anything and the like. Third lighter died the same way, at different times in the cleaning cycle, everything is fine and suddenly, first I noticed the filament and usually in one or two days the piezo. When I went to replace the third lighter with the fourth I bought from Vapo, it literally fell apart in my hand, the little cross-pin that holds the whole thing together had wormed it's way out of the hole. I put it back together somehow, I think it's missing some very small pieces that fell in the floor's 4th dimension. They all have failed piezos. I am currently using a lighter that I put together from the pieces of the failed ones. I could not have been more careful with this thing in spite of it's reputation for durability. I use the piece every day but not heavily, maybe 2 or 3 bowls, I carry it in my pocket all day.

    I have to tell you I'm none too happy about this belated response.
    If you want to send me extra screens and the like that's fine. I just bought a lighter from Mr Vapo that arrived yesterday.
    Another $20.
    Two of the lighters you want me to send you were purchased by me out of my own pocket.
    I've got two from you and two from Mr Vapo.
    I feel that if you want the lighters I bought myself, you should at least replace them with good ones. Seems only fair since I had to pay for them while waiting for customer service and they are only 3 or 4 months old with only 3 or 4 weeks of use each!

    One of those ceramic bowls would be nice and or maybe an atomizer, they would go a long way towards making me feel better about this whole fiasco and showing you really care.
    Thank you in advance,

    Ovidio
  15. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Vape-Or-Smoke Help via commander.websitewelcome.com to me

    show details 12:56 PM (8 hours ago)

    -- do not edit --

    Dear Babalao15,
    We are sending your replacement parts to day. I will try to call you later this afternoon to discuss your lighter issue. We would like to send you the new atomizer as soon as we have them in stock again. We are out of stock for about ten days. Thanks again for your patience and support of Vape-or-Smoke.

    Best regards,
    Dave

    Here's what I'm thinking.
    From the 8th to the 21st, if I'm lucky I'll get it on the 25th... a bit over two weeks. Damn!

    I am tired and frustrated and will not be writing about this again. Thanks to everyone for their support and feedback. If anyone wants to know anything else let me know. Good luck to you all with the vos, this could be a great piece if this guys get their act together, peace out!
  16. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,044
    Location:
    California
    I think its safe to say this thing provides vaporization just not the most perfect, unless you really be carefull. I put two round screens on the bottom of the bowl and tow on top of the bud, and push it down below the holes. I think as of now thats the best way to vape. You can do two long screens as well instead of the two top screens, but I get cruder vaping that way, although an easier to pack and mix bowl. I'm using vector so even at the lowest flame if I dont have 2 screens it always burns. I'm thinking of trying one long screen on the outside of the bowl(yes it stays put somehow) and only putting one round screen on top of the bowl.

    Is this the general consensus on how to vape using vector? Would using Colibri make it so I need only one screen of each maybe, because its hard to get to the bud with two on top. And I get weak vapor with all long screen configurations.
  17. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Hi Guys.
    Nosferatu, imho, the way to control heat for vapor on the vos is thru speed and frequency of inhalations and by applying and or removing the flame alternately.VOS has a video on it where the guy clicks on and off and so on. I've tried the screen adding tips like yours and they do work to some extent, but I find it too cumbersome, but to each their own.

    On my other issue with vos, I finally received two lighters from vos (28th) and they threw in a couple of screen packs and a lanyard. I would have received it sooner(2 days) but mail was delayed while I moved to a new domicile. I have had horrible durability from these lighters so while I am taken care of for now, I am concerned about a couple of months down the road.

    VOS states that they have had trouble with their email system and I know they have moved to the SW US, so I am inclined to give them a little leeway, having just moved myself I know the chaos that can ensue, at least temporarily. I am going to see how VOS handles any future issues with these lighters and especially how they handle customer issues. Buying or replacing lighters more than once or twice a year is not acceptable, to me at least.
    As I said repeatedly before, I consider the vos a tremendous product with awesome usability and popularity potential, but vos is going to have to work out these issues to make it all happen.
    I hope they do, I really like my vos.
  18. T H E O R E M

    T H E O R E M Active Member

    Messages:
    18
    your whole situation had sorta turned me off to this product, as i had VERY HIGH hopes about it. Simply due to its portability aspect is much better and compact than anything else IMO (since its the stem folds away, and uses no external batteries/parts )

    im on the fence with an IOLITE, and maybe when i am back from vacation, ill see more info regarding their latest (WISPR) model. But boy i cannot believe how many lighters gave you problems, there should be almost no way in hell anything should be so fragile. Update if u notice any differences with new ones *fingers Crossed*
  19. babalao15

    babalao15 Active Member

    Messages:
    20
    Thanks Theorem,
    One thing I don't understand is why I don't hear more about it here or anywhere else that I know of, it can't be just me.
    I thought about the i-olite too and almost went with it, but it seemed too elaborate and fragile to me and I also read up on it and found lots of complaints with ignition and "cooking time". Also, the ability to vape or smoke was important. As long as the lighter works, I'd say the vos has to be one of the best portables out there.
    Right now I'm thinking of the mflb for a backup piece that may turn out to "steal the show", I've read lots of good things about it and their customer service and warranty is almost legendary. No butane is nice too.

    I know you'd love the vos but the lighter thing may spoil it, or you may never have a problem with it as lots of people seem to experience, hopefully vos will work this out soon.
    Good luck to you, I'll update on what kind of luck I have with my new lighters.
  20. T H E O R E M

    T H E O R E M Active Member

    Messages:
    18
    how true, thats what scares me about this product...its feedback in general is non existent, so to accurately gauge how reliable this thing is seemingly impossible ATM. So far this is the only forum who has a THREAD dedicated to it too!! If you have any links regarding reviews/feedback etc please post. I am COMPLETELY new to the vaporizing universe, (dont own any yet) and been scouring web for past week just poking around.

    For whatever the reason, i dont like the MFLB. As i said previously the battery thing bugs me too, since if ur out of them ur screwed till u can charge more. makes me think of how annoying it is dealing with charging my cellphone all the time lol. but one thing i liked about the VAPE OR SMOKE is the accessory ATOMIZER, and with a IOLITE (with a little tinkering) you can also vape eliquid makes them fantastically versatile.

    Was the outlook on those IOLITE units really that grim? if you dont mind detailing further on them.

    considering ive seen the vapeorsmoke for under 100 online. It seems cheap enough to try one.
  21. Raf007

    Raf007 Jed so f... High

    Messages:
    805
    Location:
    Paris, France
    The VoS is really nice for resin, and just need one more screen (that is provided) to work great with weed.
    However it's true it can be a pain in the ass to make it work properly if you do not follow the instructions carrefully (but that happens with a lot of vape). But once you get it to work it's heaven especially for hash.
    For me, it's mflb (long slow draw, dragon hard to find) for weed and for when I'm almost out and VoS (powerfull draw if you choose so and dragon really easy to exhale) for resin or for when I want some big weed hits on the go.
    So it's really a matter of what you are looking for here ;)

    however the only thing I can tell you about the Iolite is, since I own a MFLB I haven't use mine again, ever.
  22. T H E O R E M

    T H E O R E M Active Member

    Messages:
    18
    Im going to pick up a VOS and check it out first. And work my way up from there to a MFLB .
  23. Dberm

    Dberm Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    125
    Theorem I think you'll really like it! Just dont try it once and give up, you'll have to mess with things like flame settings as well as inhale speed but once you get it down you'll be hooked!

    I got my hands on an atomizer during Seattle's hempfest where I also met one of the owners of the company (Dave). Super cool guy and he can definitely tell you about all you can handle about this project, which for me is a good thing because I like to know what I'm using. Loaded up some hash oil and after the first load I had it down and WOW what an awesome addition to an already awesome product! You can load a decent amount in and once it's going I'd have to say it's one of the most simple methods for using oil that I've come across.

    For me the atomizer is also great because it means you dont have to carry around herbs, adding to the stealth factor. My friend seriously got pulled over with an ounce and the VOS in his glove box right next to each other. Unfortunately the ounce didn't make it... But the VOS wasn't even recognized as something sketchy!
  24. Dberm

    Dberm Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    125
    Also I just did something awesome with the VOS. I already had a gong whip adapter from my old box style vape and it turns out the whip tubing is the same size as the VOS mouthpiece! So now I have the vos connected to my bong and it is amaaaaaaaaaazing! No warm up time, and I find I can take even deeper rips than before because of the ice in my bong. :o
  25. haolepino818

    haolepino818 Active Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Oahu, Hawaii
    Hey THEOREM, did you get your VoS? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Dberm, how do you like it compared to the MFLB pertaining to usability. The battery charging seems more of a hassle than to just refill the butane tank.

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