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Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by vapirtoo, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    There was a time when manufacturers were loath to make -any- change to product save there be an unexpected anomaly. Today it seems a contest to see who can initiate the most changes to a product in the interest to make more money. Cheaper materials, cheaper 3rd party suppliers, cheaper ingredients, more cost effective logistics, and no traceability. These save-save-save mantras have crippled companies. And consumers have been left hanging out there with good money spend and wasted. Now people are dying. There really is no excuse for that in the USA or EU!
     
  2. YaMon

    YaMon Vaping since 2010

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    I'm too high to read all this speculation!
     
  3. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Saw some of those recent CDC articles mentioning an unapproved additive, some kind of vitamin e acetate, that is causing lung issues and seems to be present in many cartridges?

    Any thoughts?

    I rely on these here in California for convenience (+stealth) out and about, so would love to assuage some paranoia for myself and friends...

    I like the brands California Dab Company (CDC LOL) and Plume and Liquid Moxie... There are so many here though! How to know what's what?
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  4. Pappy

    Pappy shmaporist

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    :myday:
    Began vaping Hanu Stone and Pax Era pods in June. Enjoy the high and see potential. Have experienced no detrimental side effects. However, have stopped vaping all e-vapes as of yesterday.

    -- No more until I know more!
     
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  5. Melting Pot

    Melting Pot Sick & Twisted

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    If the oil moves easily I don't buy.
    I like the live resin and ive onl3 had one brand of them waup sqaud. Right now I'm using supercarts seem pretty good.
    Staying away from Dank carts had one where the oil turned brown after a couple days and tasted shitty. And i use low voltage on them and pulse the button. So it wasn't heat. I threw it away.
     
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  6. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    where the Cube rules!
    know your chemist … same as it always was.
     
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  7. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Ah yeah, I'm sure the live resin Moxie are better than the Liquid Moxie, but I don't always want that strong of a hitter out and about functionally... They are also so much cheaper (of course that would bring more risk). Every single one has a different consistency basically lol But I would agree I try to get ones that look good usually, Moxie had me trying because of the brand name, but maybe they are not good for that reason even? I need to get more Plume soon to judge consistency, I remember liking it, and cdc seems pretty good color and const?...
     
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  8. Kilo Crusher

    Kilo Crusher New Member

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    Today their saying THC carts that have Vit E, are the culprit. Vit E is an antioxidant. THC oil oxidizes easy. Those ruthless cart cutting co. like clear cut, advertise antioxidant properties in their product. Not saying it was clear cut co., but you can bet your ass it was one of them.. my opinion .
     
  9. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    They aren't actually a real brand, Dank Vapes is a fictional brand fabricated to give unsuspecting buyers false security. The packaging is ordered cheap in wholesale from Alibaba, along with knock offs of a few genuine brands.
     
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  10. hafalump

    hafalump Well-Known Member

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    Down the rabbit hole
    one cart was purchased at a dispensary in Oregon! It is unsettling that it is not just bootleg

    This quote is about Massachusetts, people have no idea what they are using.
    While the Cannabis Control Commission requires tests for certain contaminants, it sets no restrictions on ingredients used to flavor or cut the thick marijuana extracts used in vaping products — the very chemicals federal officials now fear are linked to 450 possible cases of lung illness, including five deaths, in 33 states.

    This is crazy..........
    A republican would tell you to calm down, the market will self regulate, all these poor businesses are just trying to get by with out big government regulation. LOL
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2019
  11. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    THC oil does not oxidize easily... THC is an anti oxidant as well... maybe other constituents in the oil will oxidize but not the THC except to possibly convert to CBN but even that CBN conversion does not happen quickly ETC....
     
  12. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    Hey folks, great discussion, good insights as usual. Now the government is stepping in with the center for disease control- CDC- telling users to stop until they figure out what is causing these symptoms. Big gov will surely fuck this up. IMHO
     
  13. hafalump

    hafalump Well-Known Member

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    Down the rabbit hole
    Folks are dying. Seems fucked up to me........
     
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  14. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    Indeed that is really fucked, up these young people losing their health and lives.
    Big gov will crack down on everyone and most likely push back on legalization.
    The CDC has looked into the effects of two additives that cause fatty deposits to form in the lungs blocking the air sacs.
    Statically 200 deaths among millions of users is still safer than driving a car, but if your love one is affected it’s a real tragedy. Risk management is always so subjective.
     
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  15. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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  16. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

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    This is more of a small government problem, IMO, but bigger government alone isn't the solution. Government, specifically, regulatory agencies need to be both bigger and better.

    In this case, FDA has both the authority and the resources to regulate e-cigarettes, but it's used its discretion to delay requiring pre-market approval for these product, first until 2022, then 2021. Recently, a federal court removed this discretion and pushed up the final deadline to May, 2020.

    FDA's authority includes tobacco e-liquids as well as any devices that could be used to vape them. FDA was careful to name potential dual-use devices like vape pens in its regulations and guidance for industry. So, it could require pre-market approval for these devices as well. AFAIK, FDA has no authority to regulate products that are derived from cannabis or used exclusively with cannabis, unless they make health claims, and it won't be getting that authority anytime soon.

    To gain approval, manufacturers need to demonstrate that their products are "appropriate for the protection of the public health", a very high standard for products that are known to present health risks. Manufacturers need to show that their products are less hazardous than comparable products on the market. So, for example, e-cigarette manufacturers would need to show that e-cigarettes are less harmful than combustible cigarettes. Cigarette smokers who switch would be reducing their risk. But FDA also needs to account for non-smokers who initiate tobacco use with e-cigarettes. The reduced risk for smokers must be greater than the increased risk for non-smokers.

    Meeting this standard is likely to be very difficult. It will require significant scientific and legal resources. It's likely that only large companies will be capable of preparing complete applications that FDA will review, let alone approve.

    IMO, FDA does not have a plan to fully implement the 2009 Tobacco Control Act with regard to new tobacco products. So far, it's mainly been denying marketing applications or refusing to even consider them. The only inhalable product that's been approved is Philip Morris International's IQOS heated tobacco system, out of hundreds of applications, and PMI's request to claim that their product was less risky in marketing materials was denied.

    And we're up to 450 reported cases in 33 states.
     
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  17. Kilo Crusher

    Kilo Crusher New Member

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    Distillate (THC OIL) oxidizes easy in oxygen, that is a fact. Hundreds of threads on this topic, look it up.
    When distillate turns red in a glass jar, this is because of oxidation. Taking the oxygen out of the head space of the jar fixes this. So yes the THC oil in cartridges will oxidize, and yes cutting companies are claiming their products have antioxidant properties. If I keep hearing Vit. E, the bigger I told you so. As far as Vit E getting sprayed onto flower, My educated guess is it would've been remediated in the distillation process. We will have to wait and see. FYI, if you smoke out of a Dank cart or any other version of that brand (moon rock clear and like 5 others now). They are plastic tubes, the added terpenes will react, turning the oil dark and runny.
    my opinion
     
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  18. gangababa

    gangababa Well-Known Member

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    Let us all keep in mind the serious problem now presented wherein weed opponents can say, see, pot kills and proponents may no longer be able to say no one has ever died from smoking cannabis.

    They may be wrong but the argument will work; fear kills.
     
  19. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

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    I think that the Oregon death is different and may be unrelated to the cartridge. This was a 40 year old man who bought a cartridge that had been checked by a lab. And given that, unlike some states, there is too much cannabis in Oregon there's no reason for the dispensary to end up with something from an uninspected lab. I suspect that when they show all the info from the autopsy there will be something else in his system. Or he was already sick with something.
     
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  20. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

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    I beg you to keep partisan politics out of this discussion. Thank you.
     
  21. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    Well you're dealing with multiple points of contamination when it comes to these black market cartridges.

    Originally the concern with these carts last year wasn't so much with cutting agents, but pesticide laden distillate produced from bottom of the barrel trim. So dirty oil itself is one potential. Some of the worst carts contain no THC oil at all, instead opting for synthetic cannabinoids/ research chemicals from China.

    Then you have the cutting agents, traditionally thinning agents such as PG/VG/PEG etc but also stuff like MCT oil, mineral oil, canola oil, squalene, etc. As well as lots of non cannabis derived botanical terpenes, which I've heard can contain pesticides themselves.

    Recently to hit the scene are thickeners, so thinned oil can be double diluted and give the appearance of a barely moving "bubble." The "bubble test" is a very crude method often used to "verify" grey market carts, based on the oils thickness, but it really has no basis for validity.
     
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  22. walkma666

    walkma666 Well-Known Member

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    Post #s 119 and #121, thank you. To me, this indicates that there is simply too much novelty, variation and true lack of substantiation of ingredients for users to reliably understand the risks, and the avenues to take for safe use. Combine this with a very mixed bag of regulation and prohibition, and the uncertainty is exacerbated. I was a converted cart man about 5 months ago, yet am not too scared to use them anymore, at least not until more reliable data is available about what, where and when with the good vs. bad carts, devices, etc.
     
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  23. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Ah here is the thread, could not find it before, maybe we should update this title? lol

    In any case this is all alarming but still so much unknown... Thanks to everyone doing the hard work reading all these articles and studies!
     
  24. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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    Of course. But once they’ve made someone sick, and are being tested by health officials, there’s no more chance for contamination points. The process is frozen at that point. So, back to my original point of bafflement....they haven’t found (so far) any chemicals common to all tested carts, outside of the intended elements (THC and nicotine etc).

    So I’ll repeat.....what the fuck???? :hmm:
     
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  25. CalyxSmokr

    CalyxSmokr Well-Known Member

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    I think dank vapes is a real entity that is one of the most frequently counterfeited. I think they finally broke down and new official products only come as part of a disposable pen package.
    I could be wrong but I think the real dank vapes sells a passable quality distillate.
     
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