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Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by vapirtoo, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    Glass House
    People have been adulterating drugs for eons, and cannabis flower is certainly no exception.
    Just a quick Google search of "how to make weed look better" demonstrates such.
    As I said earlier in this thread, vitamin E is common preservative added to botanical terpene blends, which are definitely being sprayed on lower grade cannabis flowers to give the impression of being more flavorful.

    If it's truly as simple as "there's no vitamin E acetate added to flowers," and my concentrates are made from pressed flowers, then we could just as easily deduct that concentrates are clean too. Obviously it's way deeper than that.

    I don't like the conflation that concentrates = vape pens because that's misleading. Most forms of concentrates don't work in a pen without proper processing. Most concentrate users on FC produce their own from flower.
     
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  2. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    In Europe, when I stopped buying from the black market, it was reaching a point you can't even imagine! We've seen so many ways of lacing the weed, you would shit bricks if you knew the extent!

    Sugar was the easiest to detect, probably the least harmful and unfortunately the least common. It consumed poorly and created pitch black ashes. But then there were at least two reported cases of lead intoxication (lead weights a lot and vaporizes at a very low temperature, the unfortunate people who experienced it now will spend the rest of their life taking chelation medicine as the metal fixed itself to their bones) but I never had any, thankfully.

    What I had several times on the other hand was glass micropspheres, and sometimes worse, just finely crushed glass. These spheres are used as part of construction materials normally, from what I gathered. Those glass particles added a lot of weight and you could feel them grinding on your teeth after smoking when you chewed... horrible. Those led to much more reported cases of lung damages, many including microscopic cuts and internal bleeding. If you put the bud inside a glass of water and let it sit for 24h or more, you could see the spheres separate and deposit at the bottom of the glass.

    But then at some point the Dutch started inundating the market with something different but equally pernicious: buds were processed to extract most of their trichomes, to make hash that they resold or kept for themselves, then the buds were sprayed with a can of special stuff, very similar in principle to the fake snow you can spray on your Christmas tree, but instead it consisted of fake trichomes (a sphere/ball with a tiny flagellate tail, very sticky)

    It made the buds look shiny white, as if there was a very high resin content. But you could easily detect the deception by breaking apart the buds or looking on the underside of leaves that were not exposed, as it was much darker green. Microscope inspection confirmed easily that there were fake trichomes all over, at least if you knew how the real deal is supposed to look.

    Some buds were dipped inside lacing liquids instead, and those ended often more mushy, as if they would never dry properly... I could go on but I'm glad those are just bad memories for me now!
     
  3. YaMon

    YaMon Vaping since 2010

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    1,019
    Dammit, Now I want to start my own grow!
     
  4. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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  5. Alex3oe

    Alex3oe Accessory Maker

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    624
    It's really a mess with Bricks, sand, sugar and all these shit. About 10 years ago I purchased some weed mixed with something like fine crumbeled glass or glass fiber in a Club in Berlin. Luckily we got warned by a guy. He told us, to take a litte bit between our incisors. Felt and sounded like glass, so fucking disgusting :mad:

    In Switzerland, seized weed and hash was examined. 11 out of 12 samples were contaminated with different kind of shit like pesticides or fungus and only one probe was medical grade.

    https://www.hanf-magazin.com/news/studie-belegt-cannabis-vom-schwarzmarkt-kann-giftig-sein/
     
  6. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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    New info from NYT:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/06/...on=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    This, which others have noted:

    Public health officials have underscored one fundamental point: that the surge in illnesses is a new phenomenon and not merely a recognition of a syndrome that may have been developing for years.


    At our house we use, occasionally, carts purchased from licensed medical providers. Neither of us have ever had any issues with them....but my use is pretty sporadic....maybe a couple times a month I use them (for concerts and other stealth uses). Seems like moderation and only using reputable dealers is the best approach here until they figure this out, short of complete abstinence.
     
  7. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    Just when I wanted to give concentrates a try. Seriously, this is scary stuff. On the one hand I appreciate the USA's stance on legal herb in certain states but the lack of regulation, or even the full understanding of these processed products and the ramifications is something that is unheard of in this country. Or at least that is what I grew up believing. Have lobbies really become this powerful to keep regulators from even taking a peek before something is put on the market?
     
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  8. darbarikanada

    darbarikanada Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    347
    Location:
    ecotopia
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  9. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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    Yes....but also (confusingly).....

    “Dr. Layden said a majority had also used a “nicotine-based product,” noting that there were “a range of products and devices.””

    So......who fucking knows?
     
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  10. darbarikanada

    darbarikanada Well-Known Member

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    definitely still early in the investigation. I excerpted those quotes b/c they seem to be pointing towards what might be a common denominator: vaporizing nicotine or THC oil. given how long people have been vaporizing both, and the severity of what's going on, my guess would be that it's not vaporizing oils per se, but an additive, possibly contaminated, that's only been in use in recent months - if these events had been happening before it probably would've been noticed. you'd think so anyway...
     
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  11. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    2,261
    I think it’s a chemical in the liquids.

    I don’t see the same thing happening from home made rosin or vaping the flower itself. There are a lot of solvents going into those e cigarette carts.
     
  12. TommyDee

    TommyDee Vaporitor

    Don't forget the possibility that this is actually linked to an undisclosed device or component. How often do you think someone would admit their stupidity with a DIY vape utilizing really dangerous materials and applying excessive amounts of heat or worse, volatile particles created from a short circuit? Most solder for instance still contains a lot of lead! Is it possible that some 500 people have made it to emergency rooms from DIY errors? I think it fits within the realm of possibilities with the only exception being lack of disclosure that we are aware of.
     
  13. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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    Absolutely. That’s specifically what they’re saying. So a vendor and/or manufacturer one has been using for years is likely safe-ish....provided they haven’t changed their process somehow.
     
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  14. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

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    3,660
    The Oregon death is the second in the country and is different from the teen health problems. What I read is that many of the teen vape issues were related to Juul (I have no idea what that is). The one bought from a legal dispensary here is different because "In general, all marijuana intended for sale at a medical or general use dispensary is tested for pesticides and potency, as well as for solvents, if the product is not dried marijuana flower"

    Nevermind- the data is too confusing. Many articles talk about the teens using regular e-vape units that have Vitamin E acetate. Then others talk about their using units with THC. So far 153 ill in addition to the 2 deaths.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  15. darbarikanada

    darbarikanada Well-Known Member

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    ecotopia
    it sounds like the investigators are plenty aware that people might be reluctant to admit to behavior that's illegal in many states, but this is potentially a case of mass poisoning by contaminated products being openly sold - I don't think people withholding information will prevent investigators from getting to the bottom of this.

    hope I'm not being too optimistic...
     
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  16. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

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    3,660
    Not sure this is accurate given that whatever was bought at an Oregon dispensary would have probably been from a company that has been around for a while. Something is happening and no one seems to know what it is- yet.
     
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  17. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
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    where the Cube rules!
    Juul owns PAX … they also sell pods for nicotine and flavored oils that teens love to exhale as massive clouds.

    but that's been going on for too many years for it to be the device or vaping itself. imho.
     
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  18. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

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    3,660
    I think that's the concern. Most of the teens as well as those buying from dispensaries are not making these themselves nor are they necessarily buying from a black market. All of these products have been around for years without problems. So what's changed?
     
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  19. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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  20. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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    I'm just reiterating what seemed like an important point in the NYT piece:

    Public health officials have underscored one fundamental point: that the surge in illnesses is a new phenomenon and not merely a recognition of a syndrome that may have been developing for years.

    If they are correct, either that one case in OR is not complete info, or they altered their cartridges (or are getting them from a new supplier...or the retailer is fairly new....new retailers pop up here in ME all the time, and we've been legal for medical for over 20 years). Just because a retailer has been in biz for years doesn't mean they're using the same supply chain for their 2019 products they used two years ago. Which is why I specified "manufacturer" as well. If you've been getting safe carts from manufacturer X since 2016, they are probably safe unless they've changed their extraction process. (Which of course is always possible.)

    No one knows what this is yet....but public health officials, FWIW, seem to be sure about one key fact: something has changed in these carts in the past year. What that is has yet to be determined, unfortunately.
     
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  21. Hackerman

    Hackerman User

    Messages:
    1,503
    Location:
    Out there
    The dispensary owner may have bought black market carts either knowingly or unknowingly.
     
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  22. darbarikanada

    darbarikanada Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    my money's on contaminated product that's being used by multiple manufacturers.
     
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  23. walkma666

    walkma666 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    NYC
    Not sure if anyone has linked to the New England Journal of Medicine article. It was referenced in the Washington Post article this afternoon:

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1911614?query=featured_home

    Of note in the NEJ of medicine article:

    E-CIGARETTE USE
    All patients had a history of use of e-cigarettes and related products within the 90 days before symptom onset, and 94% of those with data (32 of 34 patients) regarding the date of last use reported vaping in the week before symptom onset. Most patients (29 of 33 patients [88%]) reported at least daily e-cigarette use. Of the 41 patients who were extensively interviewed, 61% reported use of nicotine products, 80% reported use of THC products, and 7% reported use of CBD products (Table 2). A total of 37% of the patients reported using THC products only, whereas 17% reported using nicotine-containing products only. A total of 44% of the patients reported using both nicotine and THC products. Patients reported using 14 distinct brands of THC products and 13 brands of nicotine products in a wide range of flavors. The most common THC product that was reported was marketed under the “Dank Vape” label (reported by 24 of 41 interviewed patients [59%]). Patients reported use of a number of different e-cigarette devices to aerosolize these products. Of the 41 patients who were extensively interviewed, 7 reported smoking combustible cigarettes as well
     
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  24. walkma666

    walkma666 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    NYC
    Further...

    Although the cause or causes of the reported illnesses remain under investigation, products containing THC are the most commonly reported e-cigarette product exposure among these case patients (84%). However, 17% of the patients reported using only nicotine-based products, and 44% reported using both THC-based and nicotine-based products. Information on product use is based on reports by the patients, and patients may be reluctant to report illicit drug use. Less clear is the relevance of e-cigarette device types that were used, as well as the importance of practice habits (frequency of use, dosing, etc.), product delivery methods (e.g., adulteration of devices), and definitive product content.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  25. mitchgo61

    mitchgo61 I go where the thrills are

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    This is one of the brands IDed by New York State as being linked to illness.
     
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