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Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by vapirtoo, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    NYC
    Teens have been admitted to hospitals with all kinds of respiratory distress. What are they doing wrong, and should we be concerned?
     
  2. pxl_jockey

    pxl_jockey Well-Known Member

    The news I’ve read has been about Juul-type vaping, which is crazy popular but I guess some could be huffing illegitimate concentrate carts, full of god knows what. I’m starting to wish we had another word other than “vaping” to differentiate between cannabis and nicotine juice.
     
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  3. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    No one knows, at least publicly, as yet. The only product that has been identified in the press have been the Juul. But, even then, there has not been a specific identification for a specific case. All new and CDC seems to talk of e-cig, vaping, dabbing, nicotine vaping and the like. (Often using dabbing as a synonym for vaping.)

    In a search this morning, I found only one that speaks of a possible mechanism. (Well, two. One had a death from a lipoid pneumonia. I guess it could be from a concentrate not winterized, but the wife of the decedent pointed to commercially available "juice" used to vape nicotine.) That mechanism was at:
    https://www.unc.edu/posts/2019/08/2...-reactions-in-lungs-that-can-lead-to-disease/

    The study:
    https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/rccm.201903-0615OC?journalCode=ajrccm

    The study did not speak to the crisis today regarding emergent lung issues. Only on the overall potential of harm on a chronic basis. ("Chronic", heh.)
     
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  4. Jill NYC

    Jill NYC Portable Hoarder

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    Thanks for starting this thread @vapirtoo - I have been meaning to do it myself.
    Good info @OldNewbie - can always count on you to do a little digging!

    ^^^^^^ This!
    It is so hard to explain to people (at least people my age) the difference between ecigs and the fuck-combustion-vaping that (we believe) is much better for our lungs.
    I personally believe it because I don’t have coughing fits in my sleep like I used to during my combustion days.
    I wish there was a way to differentiate the two (well actually more than 2) - or at the very least - make the type of vaping very obvious when discussing these health issues.
    I feel like vaping is never going to have a chance of making it in the legal and mainstream world because people will associate it with what they heard first - vaping is causing lung issues in kids.
     
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  5. Hackerman

    Hackerman User

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    I specify "dry herb vaping" when I talk about it. With all the news blitz about e-juice, any word of "vaping" around here brings shock and rebleating of news headlines.
     
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  6. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    Here’s the link. Washington Post. My dad sent it to me because I did have a lung collapse in 2013. This is all nicotine vapes. Nothing about cannabis ever comes up in the article.

    https://apple.news/AzEilk6j7TMKzd--gzBL-Cg
     
  7. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    There are tons of articles out there that opine some of the vapes had THC in them. No article is giving good information about potential vectors other than "vaping" as yet. Even in the article you mention, they DID talk of cannabis:
    To date, there is no consistent evidence that an infectious disease is the culprit, CDC spokeswoman Kathy Harben said. While some of the cases appear similar, officials said they don’t know whether the illnesses are associated with the e-cigarette devices themselves, or with specific ingredients or contaminants inhaled through them. Health officials have said patients have described vaping a variety of substances, including nicotine, marijuana-based products and do-it-yourself “home brews.”
    Edit:
    At least in California, there is one article that claims the problem has to do with "unregulated cannabis vaporizer cartridges" bought from "pop-up" dispensaries.

    https://www.leafly.com/news/health/tainted-vape-carts-sicken-7-california-safety-report-leafly
    https://www.countyofkings.com/home/showdocument?id=20469
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  8. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for the shout out Jill.
    I’ve been vaping for 6 years daily and my lungs feel better today than 10 years ago when I combusted.
    Leave it to profit over health to fuck up even something as beneficial as vaping.
    I know, I know my lungs should just inhale air, but I do live in NYC right under JFK airport, so I’m pretty much screwed anyway.
    My 29 year old son has been vaping those non-nicotine fruity oils, and the amount of vapor that pours out of his mouth is amazing.
     
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  9. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead High Standards

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    I met this one girl that must have had an oral asphyxiation cause she could not keep the thing out of her mouth. I've never, ever, ever seen someone hit a juice vape non-stop like this woman was doing, practically breathing off the thing - legit made me noxious with the amount of antifreeze vapor she was filling the room with... this honestly seemed worse than your doctor who chain smokes cigs on his lunch break!

    Also it's interesting to me how juice vaping leads to cloud chasing behavior 'cause cigarettes don't really make such a show. I can see why someone used to ripping a 2 foot bong would want to chase clouds when switching to vapor, but with nicotine I don't really get it.

    As far as what should we be concerned with - IMO I would stay far away from any cartridge vape pen you didn't purchase yourself from a reputable licensed brand and retailer. Between "food grade" botanical terpenes, the cutting/thinning/and thickening agents, synthetic cannabinoids, or just plain old dirty oil - heed caution.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
  10. pxl_jockey

    pxl_jockey Well-Known Member

    @vapirtoo Please don’t think I’m being catty or judgmental, but this is the first I’ve heard of this. I thought this sort of vaping was to replace smoking cigarettes. I had no idea folks were buying batteries and the products just for the sake of vaping oils. So all that to say: Why does your son vape fruit flavoured non-nicotine oils? What does one get out of the experience? Is it really down to an oral fixation, like the girl @invertedisdead met?

    I honestly can’t see a reason for doing it without some sort of positive reinforcement: some people smoke for the nicotine & some choose to vape for nicotine. I know some people switch to vaping as a path to smoking cessation and some switch with no intention of quitting nicotine, vaping it for the “harm reduction” that led us to FC.

    So I s this becoming a big thing in the states or everywhere? I guess it could very well be huge in the UK too and I just haven’t paid attention. I do see the fruit flavoured vials at the shop but I always assumed those contained nicotine as well. Dammit! Apparently, I’m just not very cool anymore... hipness has surely passed me by. Fortunately I’ve got inverted and the rest of y’all to help me stay current and relevant. Thank you btw!
     
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  11. Kanna_Kult

    Kanna_Kult Well-Known Member

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    As a younger person who was in high school when these things got popular and as an ex chain smoker I can say there’s a few reasons I think they’re popular. Younger kids think it’s harmless (I’ve heard people say they didn’t know JUUL had nicotine at which point if you cannot see the GIANT WARNING LABEL you are a special kind of stupid even for a teenager. ) and they’re easier to get away with than smoking. I guess it’s just “cool” idk same reason I started smoking cigs at 11. It’s insane how many kids never smoked and go to juul. I love my juul it’s the only thing that got me to quit but NO ONE who doesn’t smoke cigs should ever use one imho. I’ve used it since it launched in 2015/2016 (can’t remember) and I feel 1000x better than I did when I smoked 2+ packs of Newports a day. I doubt nic vaping is as bad as smoking but I also very much doubt it’s harmless. For some it’s a hobby (usually older people), some a fad (usually kids), some just a cessation aid. I remember when vaporshark was a fuckin kiosk at the Daytona flea market now they make the best chips in the game (DNA). Times have changed to say the least. I think anyone not vaping nicotine or oil carts Is in the clear for this though, but I’m by no means an expert
     
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  12. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    982
    Location:
    NYC
    Hey pxl
    My son seems to like the taste and the process, ritual. He never liked weed, never smoked cigarettes, but these oils are his hobby. I cannot figure it out either.
     
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  13. darbarikanada

    darbarikanada Well-Known Member

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    vaping's a pretty recent phenomenon so there isn't much (any?) in the way of clinical studies. inhaling vapor is almost certainly preferable to inhaling smoke, but it'll be a while before anyone can say with 100% confidence that it's harmless; it's not hard to believe that the people you see exhaling ginormous clouds of nicotine products are harming their lungs. recent news items aren't particularly helpful either - it's not at all clear if there's even a common denominator in these cases, and the almost non-existent regulation of the e-cig industry almost guarantees problems like we're seeing. I'm not expecting anything like clarity any time soon. just my $.02...
     
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  14. Verax

    Verax Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Totally concur - I always feel the need to qualify / explain what/how I vape. I like the descriptor used above "dry herb vaping".
     
  15. Ramahs

    Ramahs Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017

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    I used to enjoy the flavor and inhaling part, regardless of the drug s that it provided. I could have easilly seen myself vaping a non-nicotene juice. Lots of my friends liked 0-nicotene juices. I don't see the issue?!?

    I guess he should have fun. Does one expect to live forever?
     
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  16. Megaton

    Megaton Well-Known Member

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    646
    My first assumption (i have to assume as the "news story" is pretty thin on facts) on this story is black market concentrate carts with fuck knows what's in them!

    If weed was legal then this would be a complete non issue.
     
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  17. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    Inhaling aerosol glycerin , Um... glycerin was the first embalming fluid! it trurns organs to Mush!!! LOL man inhale that Shit
     
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  18. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

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    2,003
    I get the comment about living forever. But let’s be honest. You want to be 18 with breathing issues? That makes life fucking terrible. Eh. I have had a few lung collapses from well we are not sure. That’s what actually brought me to this forum.

    So my point is, it doesn’t make sense the in the regard that should you get a medical aliment at a young age would not be good and a burden to live with.
     
  19. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  20. Planck

    Planck believes in Dog

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    Reefer Madness II _ the sEqual
     
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  21. darbarikanada

    darbarikanada Well-Known Member

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  22. Planck

    Planck believes in Dog

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    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  23. Ramahs

    Ramahs Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017

    Messages:
    3,192
    Location:
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    Some people will believe anything that fits their pre-conceived ideas about the world, rather than dealing with any bit of cognitive dissonance that otherwise might apply.

    Many don't even understand how peer-reviewed empirical evidence works.

    It is what it is. All we can hope for is to spread a better understanding of the importance of critical thinking and skepticism, as well as how the scientific method works as the most efficient tool we have to get us as close to "capitol T truth" as possible, while avoiding as many false-beliefs as possible.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  24. walkma666

    walkma666 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Agree, Ramahs, yet these anecdotal stories are important use cases that cannot be ignored in lieu of properly conducted, rigorous controlled experiments (I, too, am a social scientist).

    I read the article this am that darbar linked to, and then I came here to see if there were any insights. This is not a nicotine only issue, and seems to be even more of a rogue THC cart problem.

    I am concerned, as a cart man, that in areas where herb is not yet legal, some carts may not be of the same quality as others, and there is some kind of risk component. A risk that is now being evidenced by reports of some folks having severe illnesses. While the incidence may be proportionately small, it sorta does not matter. We are in a new, gray area, and profiteers may be cutting corners at the expense of the health of others. I need more information, and look forward to reading what the CDC is finding in the allegedly tainted cartridges. This is a big deal.
     
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  25. walkma666

    walkma666 Well-Known Member

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    36
    Location:
    NYC
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