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VapCap 510 Heater Build (Based on "The Project")

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Pipes, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Hey guys. First off, huge thanks to @natural farmer who made me aware of the need for this type of device.
    It seemed to be a natural offspring for the methodology used in the Project Vape device, and proves to indeed be a shoe in, as takes basically the same base hardware configured a bit differently.
    Natural Farmer will be getting involved in this endeavour and be making this or a similar device for the masses.
    So here's how it's done using the Project's base. (modified ego 510 adapter)

    This build is 22 AWG @ .9 ohm.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Not being a VapCap owner, I have no idea on how well it works.. :shrug: However, seeing this has been done with success by others, can't see why not.?

    Concerns and remedies:

    This thing gets freakin hot.

    The Project's Achilles heal, is the insulator bushing which is Teflon and not immune to the extensive heat. For this device I have replaced this bushing with a fiber washer. Hopefully, this solution will prevent the connection loosening. Using the washer rather then collar makes assembly a little more finicky as you must ensure the straightness and centering of washers to prevent the post from shorting to them.
    For overall heat from going into the mod, I have added a 510 heat sink which IMO, is necessary for this procedure.

    Element can be damaged by colliding with the VapCan upon insertion.

    Need some kind of guide to fit into the top to narrow the hole and keep the VapCap strait and centered. This part is still a work in progress.

    Opinions, ideas, interest..?
    :sherlock: :science:
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2016
    IAmKrazy2, grokit, Cowputer and 12 others like this.
  2. Copacetic

    Copacetic Somewhere North of The Wall

    Messages:
    854
    Cool :cool:, that would be great if it works, and I'm betting you'll make it work Pipes :tup:.

    I'm assuming that since the Vapcap is Stainless steel you'd have to be careful not to short the coil?
    Or might the cap itself heat up if the current is passing through it instead of the coil itself?.

    I really quite like the idea of electronic heating for the VC.
    I can see several instances where electric is better than butane.
    And having the choice would be unique.
     
  3. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Hmmm, you make a good point about shorting the coil. I too was skeptical until @natural farmer passed this video on for my viewing pleasure. I am now assuming that the cap is electrically insulated somehow...? Perhaps has a coating on it.? I don't know but this video seems to indicate there is no problem in this regard. At least, that's my hope.

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  4. nondarb

    nondarb .

    Messages:
    727
    Are you sure his device is regulated or is in regulated mode? I couldn't get my cuboid to function well with my VC, but an unregulated mod did it with ease.
     
  5. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Did you try the Cuboid in bypass or power modes? Sounds like a possible problem Houston...
    Man, looks like I'm going to have to get a VC if going to proceed with confidence. :\
     
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  6. Copacetic

    Copacetic Somewhere North of The Wall

    Messages:
    854
    Yeah I remember that vid', there's certainly no denying that it works, I just wonder how it doesn't short?
    I suppose it could simply be due to the 'poor connection' between the cap and the coil allowing the coil to shoulder the current by itself?
    In which case, IDEAL!

    You definitely wouldn't regret that move man, the VC is a stellar piece of kit, I freaking love my ones, LOVE them.
     
    natural farmer, Squiby and Pipes like this.
  7. natural farmer

    natural farmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    High in a Greek mountain!
    @Pipes? Get your VC ordered man! Just get the OG to start with, 35$ it is! Coils dimensions will be dictated by where you want the cap to be heated as the temps wanted are depended on where you heat, closer to the tip=lower temps, closer to the open end=higher temps. Also total length of the coil might play a role with even heating of the load.
    The cap doesn't need to touch the sides, it can rest on the coil and if that top loop is a bit narrower it can act as a guide maybe. And if you just drop the Vapcap in there and don't push it with force I don't see the coil getting deformed... It's a very light vaporizer. Can we use a fatter wire maybe?
    And as I mentioned in my PM, it looks beautiful!!! :love:

    Edit: On the matter of glass getting hot with consequent hits, a simple silicone tubing sleeve of the appropriate diameter could be fit, if it is needed...
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  8. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,714
    Like the idea.of making the current pass thru the cap but as it's over the Ti tip both would conduct. The SS and Ti will not make contact in a uniform manner due to the lose fit and deformation of the SS.
    Glass bowl would be the way to go. The only other thing would be if the bowl got hot enough before the cap clicked.
     
  9. natural farmer

    natural farmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    High in a Greek mountain!
    So far @paytonpenn 's iteration who was the first I think to try it and record it has worked without many shorts as he told me... And it works well! He said he fires up the coil first and then inserts the Vapcap. Maybe that has to do with something? :shrug:
     
    paytonpenn likes this.
  10. rabblerouser

    rabblerouser vaporizer evangelist / collector

    Messages:
    568
    Location:
    inside a cloud of vapor
    this is where i thought you were going with that picture in The Project thread...
    Definitely interesting, especially since I have a vapcap on order and just got that cuboid.

    It seems like it would have to short though? since the cap is stainless, right?
    I was envisioning maybe 2 glass tubes with the heating element between them?

    Edit:

    ok, i watched the video, i'm still puzzled, but clearly it does work
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
  11. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    I have a VC on order as well. Experiments will begin next week.
    Being thinking about this and the key might be that in the video, he is using Kanthal. Kanthal can be shorted while coiling so must build up a layer of insulating oxide. I do know you can not do this with all element types.
    Anyway, I'll find out soon enough. Would be nice if will work with SS as could make a dual purpose Project...?
     
  12. Copacetic

    Copacetic Somewhere North of The Wall

    Messages:
    854
    Ah-HA! :science:
    That would be mighty handy in this application, fingers crossed.
    Have you considered using flat wire?
    Might make for better surface contact/heat transfer?

    Enjoy your VC when it arrives (impossible not to, but it's the thought that counts eh? :haw:)
     
  13. mrbonsai420

    mrbonsai420 I love Grass and Glass!

    Messages:
    1,064
    This is awesome. I use my Evo as a Vapcap heater now. Throwing this on my E-vic mini would be great!! Plus my sister has an OG I gave her but she is scared of butane torches lol, perfect for her.
     
    natural farmer and Pipes like this.
  14. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,493
    Location:
    where the Cube rules!
    !
     
  15. Baron23

    Baron23 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,922
    I love the complex and innovative ecosystem of tinkers we have in vaping and on FC in particular. Its terrific and interesting.

    However, and not to be a wet blanket, to me an electric version of the VapCap exists...its the Enano log vape. Seriously. I have VapCap OGs (multiple) and a Ti Woody. LOVE Dyna, George and all of the rest of them. But I was loaned an Enano and with the adjustable basket it seems to be a home desktop version of the VapCap. .05 gs, three draws to clean it up, almost all glass.

    I think this is a cool project, but wonder if this function is not already available via good log vape.

    Cheers and carry on!! :tup::clap::nod:
     
    Sketch420 likes this.
  16. Kalessin

    Kalessin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    877
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Well, you can't carry around a logvape in your pocket and use it on the go without an electrical hook up, can you?
     
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  17. natural farmer

    natural farmer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,042
    Location:
    High in a Greek mountain!
    Exactly! And that is the reason I have wanted an electric heater for the Vapcap mostly. Making heating stealthier when in public outdoor and also more practical when it's windy and torch can barely heat the cap! :tup:
     
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  18. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,714
    @natural farmer I was referring to this part of Copacetics post
    I'm still happy heating with a torch and have no problems using my VC anywhere with my modded triple, running a bowl here the other day was easy,
    [​IMG]
    but I can can see the appeal of a battery operated 'heating station' and have been bouncing ideas around the grey matter since I saw Payton's video . I also made a start on a 'side by side' style box mod out of the bits and pieces I have at hand but it has been put on the back burner as I've no spare time to dedicate to it.

    @Pipes It would be interesting to see how durable the oxidized layer on the kanthal is and if it can take a few scrapes.
    The idea of a second tube inside the coil is nice but extra power is going to be needed to heat the 'insulator' and then the VC cap.

    Perhaps a wooden tube over the glass which has a funnel shaped top as guide into the coil?
     
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  19. mrbonsai420

    mrbonsai420 I love Grass and Glass!

    Messages:
    1,064

    Maybe a heat conductive yet non electrically conductive material to use as an inner sleeve ala @Hippie Dickie 's bud toaster but instead of glass the inner sleeve could be a thin tube of silicon carbide perhaps? It could be slightly flared at the end to protect the coil and guide the VA into the tube to be heated? Or maybe a way to heat a metal tube of some type that is less prone to damage than the coil. As long as you can do it without shorting which I think you could? Coil heats a metal tube, metal tube touches and heats the vapcap.
     
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  20. The Beagle

    The Beagle Butanist Bubblemaker

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    Italy
    Hi, I still have to get a Vapcap but since the first time I saw it I thought about an electrical heater as I already own a Vapman station that basically does the same thing for another vape. Wouldn be better to use an induction heater instead of a regular coil?
     
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  21. Andreaerdna

    Andreaerdna If God is the answer, then the question is wrong

    Messages:
    735
    I did something similar to paytonpenn some times ago, I think I posted a picture of it.

    I used a tesla unregulated mod and kantal wire (when kantal becomes red hot, as @Pipes said, it get coated by a layer of insulator. First uses can show some short but fast it becomes relatively short free / unless you throw violently your VC into the coil making some scratch in the insulator layer

    It works nice indeed, with windy day, or while reading and needing one hand device, or when stealth is a concern too.

    In order to insulate I used a small glass jar upside down with a hole on the bottom to enter VC (leaving air beween glass and coil offered a discrete insulation (not fail safe though, especially with repeated sessions)

    Bad side: vapcap need a lot of heat to click IME, You can get quite a bunch of sessions with 2high drain 18650 (i do not recall exactly but maybe 5-6 depending how dark you like your abv and if you use OG or Ti tip / with OG needing less heat to vaporize) but only first session (or maybe the second too) is nicely fast, soon it takes quite a while to heat
    I got annoyed by both heating speed and reloading batteries and while at first I was very happy with it, I went back to butane and my personal VC heating station is collecting dust ever since.

    With a conservative insulator (glass around the coil and some insulator around glass as pipes project) and a flat wire as @Copacetic and @Hippie Dickie pointed out maybe it could be less energy greedy and more effective.

    Will be watching :popcorn:
     
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  22. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    I'm glad there seems to be much interest for such a device.

    Stuff ordered last weekend:

    -VC ordered and should get it tomorrow if goes well at customs.
    -20 AWG Kanthal ordered and will like be a few weeks. In the meantime, I have some 23 AWG to play with.
    -.8mm X 3mm flat SS 316 wire ordered.

    Real fun should start before long. :clap:
     
  23. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,001
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    No worries, going to confirm if conduction is possible. Honestly though, I have my doubts, Stainless steal doesn't have much magnetic characteristics. Induction needs iron properties and some mass. Both not high with the VC.
    If there is any success, a home station has my interest.
    I already have one of these already and think it would be a nifty way to heat the VC. But depends on the magnet properties and density of the steel used for the VC tip.
    Definitely not a power efficient method, but cool never the less. Draws 1 amp at 12 volt just sitting there doing nothing. Stick a screw driver in the coil and it draws 6 - 7 amps. Screw driver glows red hot in a second. The more iron you shove in the higher the current draw. Tried with good SS and hardly gets warm... so...
    But worth a poke since already have it.

    [​IMG]

    Stay tuned!!!
     
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  24. thevapester

    thevapester Member

    Messages:
    20
    Definitely interested in this. Just got a box mod to try with the project and to use with concentrate discreetly and the vapcap is high on my list.
     
    natural farmer and Pipes like this.
  25. funkyjunky

    funkyjunky www.lamart.ch Manufacturer

    Messages:
    333
    i think it could work with the stainless steel used in the vapcap, it is ferromagnetic.
    could also have the vapcap sit inside a glass vial or something to insulate.

    like the idea of a vapcap station even tho i dont have one myself.
    it would be fun to have an arduino control different voltage levels, or even heat algorithms to heat up faster and to different temps (ignoring the click).
     

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