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Underdog Vaporizer

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by underdog, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. underdog

    underdog shade-tree vapor engineer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    1,509
    Location:
    NorCal
    The MicroStem (and most of the other non-Simple Glass Stem) turned out to be an enormous pain in my ass (and equipment) so it's currently not available and we're looking at other options. Making a smaller stem is on our list of hopeful things to accomplish this coming year so stay tuned.. :cool:
    vorrange likes this.
  2. I_wanted_truth

    I_wanted_truth Active Member

    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    In the trees
    After another 24 hours of some serious scientific research, I completely agree. I got darker AVB with the stem loaded up a bit more. I am really interested in playing with heat adjustments as well as stem loads now. Will have to keep the thread updated.

    My twig dog is really a beauty. Despite not getting the exact color AVB I want (YET), I am really appreciating the efficiency of a well-designed convection vape. The aromatherapy cup has been great, too.

    And the clouds. Oh lawd. The MFLB is a great tool, but the Underdog is quite a different animal.

    No microstem yet, but I may get my hands on some old Purple Days-modified-to-Underdog stems very soon. Smaller diameter roasting tube may be a great solution.

    Two screens is an EXCELLENT idea. Gonna have to conduct more research. Back to the office!
  3. that herb guy

    that herb guy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    311
    99% of my posts are probably useless, but every now and then I hit on to something. Like I said it's untested, but let us know how it works :tup:.

    Do you have any friends/family with access to voltage meters(? I think that's the term)? I know it's been said but you're power is probably a little weak. I've got the same PS (huge brick type) and if I want to, I can easily take the ABV to DEEP brown/black. Does seem to be a little strain dependent though - some just doesn't roast as dark.

    Forget about the Microstem, I should check availability before I start making suggestions lmao.
  4. sunsett70

    sunsett70 Active Member

    Messages:
    367
    i have 3 different plugs/adaptors and all give varying power, small difference but noticeable.
  5. vapelvr

    vapelvr Active Member

    Messages:
    46
    I'm a proud UD owner http://www.underdogvapes.com/vaporizers/vapes-all/ash-genie-lamp-13449/

    I am happy to have found that the larger silicon tube fits perfectly into the open throat of what I believe is a generic 14mm size downstem for my "poor man's Cloud" alternative, and I am quite happy with the result. I have a 10" high narrow neck w/ ice catcher water device, with a nice downstem diffuser that isn't too big, but just the perfect match for the solo and the UD. I'll post some pics later as it does provide just the right amount of cooling off so I can take as big of a hit off either the UD or Solo, as long and big as my lungs can handle with pretty much complete comfort.

    Now, I have also found a few little things that I was hoping to get some input on. Is there an ideal screen distance that you experimenters have found alter the density or flavor, and to me just as important, the issue of quantity/quality of draws per load? Do you get a certain amount of quality draws? I usually get 3-5 per .08-.1 UD silicon through water, but that's it. I get 3-5 times that many hits with the same amount in the Solo. I'm not trying to be over the top on how the Solo outperforms, these are just hard comparisons I'm noticing and I feel are valuable to share as I am quite into figuring this stuff out. I want the most overall efficient, best tasting, flexible with the most types of materials, with the most variable temp control, density control, combination with as FEW items as possible. I feel like I'm a test lab at times, way too many items trying to all compete to do the same thing. UD seems to be a permanent solution, the Solo so far seems great but I feel I might be missing something as much as my personal data seems to show it is an extremely efficient device. (still waiting for more side by side comparison feedback on Inhalator/Solo or any other device that perhaps has features Solo doesn't have.

    Some other observations: I love the Solo, but I am also very much using it as a primary benchmark reference device as it does well in every area I feel is important. Flavor, density, efficiency. The Solo seems to stretch things as a comparison, primarily because I get 3-5 sessions per bowl of 5-10 draws per session. I begin at 2 with quite dry ground material through a sharpstone. I usually get 8-10 good draws at 2-3, then 2 more 8-10 draws at 3-4 and then sometimes I'll go higher but usually I stop there. Wanted to accumulate some ABV to see if it is worth playing around with for concentrates. So 20-40 draws per bowl by being able to vape at different temps versus 3-6 good draws on my UD. Now the first few draws on the UD are usually stronger than the first few on the Solo, but not always, and sometimes the Solo goes for 30-40 draws on one bowl. Bottom line, it takes way fewer draws to get to where you get no more vapor even though there is still green in the bowl load. I've been revaping the UD leftovers successfully when it appears to still have a lot of green in it and with the Solo I get at least a hit or 2, sometimes several really good ones. I usually start at 3, then get a few really nice draws at 4-5 on the Solo with the remains of the UD, so I'm not quite sure if this is just me that is having this kind of results, or is this something that other portables do similarly? Does it seem strange that I am able to get more out of the UD remains in the Solo?

    I think I probably need a VVPS to give me some more flexibility on the UD and that may help get some more out of the herb without having to pack it so full or revape it with the Solo.

    Also, I'm open to consider it could be a result of a flaw in my technique or some tweak or suggested amount or something else I might be doing wrong?

    Also, it seems that when I pack the bowl more it does get much better hits but I get dark brown as well as very green, so it seems to need some stirring sometimes. Is that expected? If I fill say 1/4 of the space in the stem versus 1/2 full? It makes a big difference surprisingly. I have to stir which is not always successful in getting the dark ABV.

    The other issue was trying to factor in the type of stem, glass vs. silicon, then respectively, the distance of the screen down the neck, and 3rdly, the amount and relative depth of the bowl to fill as the primary variables, assuming the herb is of high quality and as dry as possible to begin with?

    Thanks!

    J
  6. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    584
    @vapelvr- i know this probably isn't what you want to hear BUTTTT it sounds like you should try experimenting around more with your Dog. As you probably have noticed, us vaporists are also half-way mad scientists :science: try varying your load amounts, screen positioning, and draw technique. get to know your Dog a little more before pulling the trigger on a VVPS.

    although i don't have a Solo, you also need to remember that you're comparing two very different vapes. one is portable and the other is a home unit. i have heard that the Solo does pack quite the punch but a plug-in vape like the UD is suppose to be a bit of a heavy hitter and can easily spend a bowl in 5 hits or less. i like to think of my portable, the MFLB, and my UD as having two different jobs. sometimes i don't have the time to be taking hit after hit after hit, like during commercials with a good movie on TV, and would just like one or two monster hits which will make me turn to my UD.

    word to the wise, its easy to get lost in mad scientist mode with testing and get really vaked! not that im complaining though...

    glad to hear you're happy with your UD so far!
    underdogette and vapelvr like this.
  7. Athena

    Athena Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Florida
    I just purchased the spalted ebony Underdog twig. Big thanks to all the folks on this forum. I'm an older consumer who rediscovered my love of herbal consumption, but can't handle smoking. I purchased a Pax Ploom last month, after an semi-satisfactory experience with the MFLB. I love the portability of the pax, but found that I wasn't getting as medicated as I needed. After reading a LOT of these forums, I wanted to get a Zap, but after the sad story of Rich's troubles, turned to the heir-apparent.

    My problem is that, older folks like me can't easily find places or people to try things out. I feel like a bubbler would help with the dryness which is killing my throat (i stopped using the MFLB because i would cough so hard it wasn't worth it). I would greatly appreciate suggestions on what to buy, and any advice on how to use, or any recommended videos?
    underdogette likes this.
  8. HERBavore

    HERBavore Active Member

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Arizona Bay
    You could check out your local headshop, if you have one in your area. If not, you can always order a bubbler online.
    A good website for cheap but very functional glass would be http://www.grasscity.com/us_en/
    Or a similar website, but with all quality and American made glass http://aqualabtechnologies.com/
    Just from what other people have told me from a question somewhat like yours, you would want a bong or bubbler with as little volume as possible so you can completley milk it.
    A piece that a member (SD Haze) reccomended to me for an Underdog was http://aqualabtechnologies.com/scie...syn-glass-45-x-5-mm-straight-green-label.html
    A straight-shooter with a diffused downstem, enough diffusion for cool and water conditioned vapor, but no extra percolation to maintain flavor and potency.
  9. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    584
    i would also suggest this piece from Soul Shine Family Glass,
    http://ssfgglass.com/shop/product.php?id_product=15

    they're a nice family owned business in Cali who are well-respected here in the FC community. the straight tube water pipe that i posted above is a nice simple piece to start off with at only $60 which is a very good price.

    as for anything extra you may have to buy, you should be able to just connect your UD to the water pipe with some of the silicone tubing that Dave provides. also, it seems that Dave will be selling wooden water pipe adapters(aka WonGs, WoodonGlass) which you could buy to hook your UD up to any piece.
  10. HERBavore

    HERBavore Active Member

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Arizona Bay
    Agreed, I didn't even think of SSFG for some reason. :shrug: At half the price of the SYN I posted, with less volume and the same amount of diffusion, I would think that the Travel Tube would be a MUCH better choice. Silly me. :doh:
  11. Athena

    Athena Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks for the replies. I looked at the travel tube, it looks like an old school bong. Do you just run some silicone tubing from output to the bowl? And what is a push slide? Is that like a carb?
  12. HERBavore

    HERBavore Active Member

    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Arizona Bay
    Not my video, but one from another member on here (SD Haze or HES I believe):
    Works a little something like that, except without the ashcatcher.
  13. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

    Messages:
    2,366
    Location:
    Canada
    I'd go with the beaker over the tube - I have both and I really love my SSFG beaker.

    In addition to what HERBavore posted, you can also get a ground glass stem from Dave.

    A slide is a bowl with either a 14mm or 18mm (usually) ground glass male connection to be inserted into a female ground glass joint.

    Push slides are 'pushed' onto male joints (typically for concentrates). Pull slides are 'pulled' from female joints.

    edit: actually judging by his first post on this page, it seems like maybe Dave isn't selling GG tubes anymore.
    HERBavore likes this.
  14. SD_haze

    SD_haze MMJ Vaporist

    Messages:
    3,204
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Yar mine :)

    That video's not with the standard tubing though, it's the extra thin silicone stem (fitting a 14mm joint)
    HERBavore likes this.
  15. sunsett70

    sunsett70 Active Member

    Messages:
    367
  16. Athena

    Athena Member

    Messages:
    6
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks again, now time for the ultimate noob question - where do I put my ground herbs? I assume laws make video of this step inadvisable, but I have yet to see. I guess it goes into the stem, but would love to see how much is used and how it is packed.
  17. sunsett70

    sunsett70 Active Member

    Messages:
    367
    @athena, u can use the search function, quite a few vids on this thread. or you can google "underdog vaporizer, youtube", a couple nice vids there too.
  18. I_wanted_truth

    I_wanted_truth Active Member

    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    In the trees
    The two screens are a pain to put in the stem, but seem to work fairly well once in there. There is a noticeable decrease in "air flow," but I seem to be roasting stems a little darker. A still am excited to try out a VVPS. I think that will be my real solution.

    I have no idea about checking power outlet voltage. Can you you use a regular multimeter? Not that I have one.....
  19. paytonpenn

    paytonpenn Level 30 Nature/Healer

    Messages:
    1,031
    Unfortunately there aren't any pics of my dog of Dave's website for me to nab, but I made a little video
    Doing it with ice and no water is better in my opinion, very chilled hits and no bubbling


    The video really doesn't do the dog justice, I should probably get a lighthouse so I can blow the fog into it.
    Nbajunkie likes this.
  20. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    Ya a regular multi meter for AC voltage will work. If you don't know anyone with one a lot of times you can find one really cheap now a days. One of my meters was like $3 at a local Harbor Freight (cheap hardware store in California) and should work fine just for a voltage measurement.
  21. I_wanted_truth

    I_wanted_truth Active Member

    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    In the trees
    Yeah, gonna have to check this out at some point. Though I have moved on to the "solutions" already, it would be nice to have a clear understanding of what my "problem" actually is.
  22. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    970
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    I would want to know too, most utility companies allow 10% deviation from standard line voltage ratings. Although normally this isn't a problem, low voltage can be very hard on appliances with motors ie ac, heater, dishwasher, compressors, pumps, etc. :2c:
  23. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,743
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    underdog likes this.
  24. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    584
    I think this should help



    At 15 seconds into the video, you'll see a water pipe adapter that i made out of glass from a MFLB WPA and a thick silicone stem with a screen at the end of the glass. then i suck up the material into my stem on the thick silicone side because that's the side that will be connecting to my Underdog. At 28 seconds, you'll find that the water pipe adapter shown before is now sitting in the 14mm glass downstem of my straight tube water pipe. The rest is, well, where the magic happens...:cool:

    As i mentioned before, if you need a water pipe adapter, you can simply contact Dave and he can help you out. Keep the questions rolling if you have any!
    Athena, cycleb, Hoops and 1 other person like this.
  25. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

    Messages:
    2,366
    Location:
    Canada
    great vid HES I've always really fancied the bamboo out of all the light wood UDs
    HighlyEducatedScholar likes this.

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