Underdog Log Vapes

[ltv]

Yeah many of the new Dogs run exceptionally hot like yours as compared to older ones that needed a lot more voltage to generate the same heat. I actually think I'm going to lower the default heat a little bit and try to keep it more constantly there from vape to vape other than when people request a cooler/hotter Pup.

The aluminum bowled OS NonGs are just the left overs from a big custom batch I made, probably not something we'll make again. Aluminum is one of those things that definitely get people polarized, doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground between people who have concerns about it and those that don't. The SS OS NonGs are certainly more popular but the aluminum ones are less expensive. I personally don't have any concerns about it but I know some people do. I do like the heft and hardness of the SS a lot more though.

I just received my pup last week and compared to the Arimazap, the UD is
extremely hotter.

Will the amount of heat generated by the most recent pups decrease the functional life span of the pup?
Would the heat cause the wood to loose its integrity?

A dimmer would offset any potential deleterious affects of high levels of heat?

 

[shredder]

Yeah many of the new Dogs run exceptionally hot like yours as compared to older ones that needed a lot more voltage to generate the same heat. I actually think I'm going to lower the default heat a little bit and try to keep it more constantly there from vape to vape other than when people request a cooler/hotter Pup.

The aluminum bowled OS NonGs are just the left overs from a big custom batch I made, probably not something we'll make again. Aluminum is one of those things that definitely get people polarized, doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground between people who have concerns about it and those that don't. The SS OS NonGs are certainly more popular but the aluminum ones are less expensive. I personally don't have any concerns about it but I know some people do. I do like the heft and hardness of the SS a lot more though.

It really doesn't bother me if my dog runs hot. Personal preference i guess. Plus I can tame it with a vvps.

I have noticed slightly thicker metal on my new dog's standard heater post. A change?

An old Ed's enano stem that I sanded out the inside of to fit my older dog doesn't fit on the new one.

Considering how many other questionable things I've subjected my body to, I imagine the aluminum is the least of my worries.

Like I said, mildly concerned. But like most, I think, I'd rather have stainless, titanium, or glass.

This oversized nong is a beast tho, so please consider planting a stainless tube in future oversized nongs. I think they would go over well.

The extra size makes it mo better for passing between multiple users.

 

[underdog]

I just received my pup last week and compared to the Arimazap, the UD is
extremely hotter.

Will the amount of heat generated by the most recent pups decrease the functional life span of the pup?
Would the heat cause the wood to loose its integrity?

A dimmer would offset any potential deleterious affects of high levels of heat?

Yes heat generation is what ticks away at the lifespan of an UD (or anything that generates heat).

The heat will slowly degrade all components of the vape (or other device) until the weakest link fails. We're talking a good long time here of course, for example a Dogs 2 year warranty equates to approximately 17,000 hours of run time. At 24/7 use you can burn thru those 17,000 hours in 2 years or you could only use it 4 hours a day and get a decade of life out of the same Dog. These numbers are just examples though and each Dog will have a unique lifespan due to different wood species reacting to heat differently, etc.

Any reduction in heat exposure (ie, how hot) or time (ie, hours heated) will maximize the lifespan. This can be done by just unplugging the Dog when not in use or using a dimmer to lower the temp between sessions, etc. The current design heats up so fast these days that 24/7 operation probably isn't necessary for most users.

Anyways sorry for the rambling response, interesting subject(s) so I can go on and on lol.

Hope you're enjoying the Dog!

It really doesn't bother me if my dog runs hot. Personal preference i guess. Plus I can tame it with a vvps.

I have noticed slightly thicker metal on my new dog's standard heater post. A change?

An old Ed's enano stem that I sanded out the inside of to fit my older dog doesn't fit on the new one.

Considering how many other questionable things I've subjected my body to, I imagine the aluminum is the least of my worries.

Like I said, mildly concerned. But like most, I think, I'd rather have stainless, titanium, or glass.

This oversized nong is a beast tho, so please consider planting a stainless tube in future oversized nongs. I think they would go over well.

The extra size makes it mo better for passing between multiple users.

Ah, yeah, I guess you can't really tell since they're all sold out but the original OS NonGs were in fact stainless. We then made a special batch of aluminum ones for someone and are now selling the leftovers of those. So the original/default ones were actually SS from the get-go.

The heat post on the newer Dogs is still 3/8" but there is always a tiny amount of variation in the tolerances of the tubing from batch to batch. There are some cosmetic differences on the tubing now too since I've moved from it being mechanically cut to being laser cut (more on this later).. this makes for a different look and a different edge profile.

 

[guardian]

hey UD or anyoneone that has an air core, I really cant find good pictures on google so I gotta ask do the nylon steel stems slide into the air core or over them as some heat exchanger pictures have a recessed screen and others have a screen at the top of the tube similar to a nano thanks

 

[underdog]

hey UD or anyoneone that has an air core, I really cant find good pictures on google so I gotta ask do the nylon steel stems slide into the air core or over them as some heat exchanger pictures have a recessed screen and others have a screen at the top of the tube similar to a nano thanks

The Nylon and NonG stems slide into the Air Core (and Standard Core). In the old days (3-4 years ago?) we didn't use these kinds of stems and the cores had a screen at the top instead of recessed.

 

[ataxian]

The Nylon and NonG stems slide into the Air Core (and Standard Core). In the old days (3-4 years ago?) we didn't use these kinds of stems and the cores had a screen at the top instead of recessed.

Some say I have too many vaporizers!

GonG's? all broke?

Not changing my floors!

Wife hates carpet.

At least you get it!

Your ATTACHMENTS are world class!

One day to have a UNDERDOG?
One day!

 

[ltv]

Yes heat generation is what ticks away at the lifespan of an UD (or anything that generates heat).

The heat will slowly degrade all components of the vape (or other device) until the weakest link fails. We're talking a good long time here of course, for example a Dogs 2 year warranty equates to approximately 17,000 hours of run time. At 24/7 use you can burn thru those 17,000 hours in 2 years or you could only use it 4 hours a day and get a decade of life out of the same Dog. These numbers are just examples though and each Dog will have a unique lifespan due to different wood species reacting to heat differently, etc.

Any reduction in heat exposure (ie, how hot) or time (ie, hours heated) will maximize the lifespan. This can be done by just unplugging the Dog when not in use or using a dimmer to lower the temp between sessions, etc. The current design heats up so fast these days that 24/7 operation probably isn't necessary for most users.

Anyways sorry for the rambling response, interesting subject(s) so I can go on and on lol.

Hope you're enjoying the Dog!




Ah, yeah, I guess you can't really tell since they're all sold out but the original OS NonGs were in fact stainless. We then made a special batch of aluminum ones for someone and are now selling the leftovers of those. So the original/default ones were actually SS from the get-go.

The heat post on the newer Dogs is still 3/8" but there is always a tiny amount of variation in the tolerances of the tubing from batch to batch. There are some cosmetic differences on the tubing now too since I've moved from it being mechanically cut to being laser cut (more on this later).. this makes for a different look and a different edge profile.

Thank you for the needed information. My dog will remain a pup based on the principles you explained.
UD indeed has the best customer service! I appreciate what you do.

 

[Snappo]

I'm positive that my heirloom dogs will functionally and artistically long outlive me... heat up time NEVER an issue... performance OUT OF THIS WORLD... service WOWOWOWOWOW & WOW!!! PM me and I'll tell you how strongly I really believe in UNDERDOG - i don't want to overload this thread with pages & pages of POWERFUL GOOD WORDS ;-)

 

[mucsusn]

After a lovely evening at the mancave with my girlfriend, got to give the e-nano's and the dog some mineral oil and beeswax love. They are warm and glowing with a lovely patina. Finishing off the evening with a flower/bubble hash/flower sandwich through the straight glass. I'm thinking it's time to get the waiting list for an HI.......

 

[ZC]

There's nothing like a good log collection.

As for dog lifespan, I'm with Snappo here. This thing is going to long outlive me. I plug it in when I get home and sit at my desk. By the time I've picked a material, ground it, and loaded a stem it's ready to go. It isn't "instant" like some other convection vapes but it aint slow either.

 

[LazyVaper]

Hi, current E-Nano user here. I really like the Nano, except for the big cord... I can't seem to get past it. I'm am investigating some DIY approaches to using a smaller cord with it, but as a lightweight electronics hobbyist, I find AC generally harder to work with compared to DC.

So now I'm also looking at Underdogs. A few questions...

(1) Do E-Nano stems work with the Underdog? At least early on in the Nano thread, someone asked the same question, and IIRC the answer was "no", as the heaters have different diameters. But that was a few years ago, not sure if anything has changed.

(2) I've read the FAQs and watched the YouTube videos, but I'm still not sure if I should go with Standard Core or Air Core. Looks like there's been at least one revision of each core, so I'm just looking for the most up-to-date information. Has either core been standardized on as the long-term plan for all UDs going forward? I think I'll primarily be a glass user, but see also next question. Not particularly concerned about heat-up times.

(3) Also not sure what stems to go with. I'm using glass only now with the Nano (and Arizer Air before that), and have no complaints. Glass seems more "pure" to me, and it's certainly easy to clean. Looks like glass also holds a bigger load, which, if it saves me a few reload cycles, is a win. I guess the question is really, why might I want something other than glass?

(4) Which wood? Per the FAQ and videos, I know this is mostly an aesthetic/personal preference thing. I'm not too picky in the looks department. I generally prefer darker woods. But, within the Birthday sale vapes, are any of the woods heavier than the others? The UD's thinner cable is one step in the right direction, and having an overall heavier log would also be helpful I think. So, for example, is there any appreciable weight difference between the Black Walnut and the Mohogany?

Thanks!

 

[ZC]

If you mostly want big loads then yeah, glass is the way to go. The smaller SS stems are perfect for tiny pinches of material that you can finish off in a single hit. If that isn't appealing to you then maybe stick with outer diameter.

I find the long SS stems provide cooler, smoother hits than glass but YMMV.

As for purity, glass stems still have SS screens. The SS in SS stems is no less pure or safe. It's also no more difficult to clean than glass. Drop it in iso, let it soak, maybe shake it around a bit. Super easy.

I've only tried the standard core, and it's fantastic. Heard nothing but good things about the air core. If it were me I'd just look at the available units and pick the design and wood you know I keep most, regardless of the core.

Also, the air core needs an silicone o ring as a positive stop, the stems don't have stops built in like the nano. The standard has a star washer on top so you don't need that o ring. If your planning on mostly using glass stems this could be the deciding factor for you.

 

[underdog]

Hi, current E-Nano user here. I really like the Nano, except for the big cord... I can't seem to get past it. I'm am investigating some DIY approaches to using a smaller cord with it, but as a lightweight electronics hobbyist, I find AC generally harder to work with compared to DC.

So now I'm also looking at Underdogs. A few questions...

(1) Do E-Nano stems work with the Underdog? At least early on in the Nano thread, someone asked the same question, and IIRC the answer was "no", as the heaters have different diameters. But that was a few years ago, not sure if anything has changed.

(2) I've read the FAQs and watched the YouTube videos, but I'm still not sure if I should go with Standard Core or Air Core. Looks like there's been at least one revision of each core, so I'm just looking for the most up-to-date information. Has either core been standardized on as the long-term plan for all UDs going forward? I think I'll primarily be a glass user, but see also next question. Not particularly concerned about heat-up times.

(3) Also not sure what stems to go with. I'm using glass only now with the Nano (and Arizer Air before that), and have no complaints. Glass seems more "pure" to me, and it's certainly easy to clean. Looks like glass also holds a bigger load, which, if it saves me a few reload cycles, is a win. I guess the question is really, why might I want something other than glass?

(4) Which wood? Per the FAQ and videos, I know this is mostly an aesthetic/personal preference thing. I'm not too picky in the looks department. I generally prefer darker woods. But, within the Birthday sale vapes, are any of the woods heavier than the others? The UD's thinner cable is one step in the right direction, and having an overall heavier log would also be helpful I think. So, for example, is there any appreciable weight difference between the Black Walnut and the Mohogany?

Thanks!

Hi there LazyVaper, I'll try to answer some of your questions and hopefully other people will chime in on anything I miss or don't know.

1> We haven't changed any of our specs in regard to stem sizes (OD and ID) so as far as I know unless the E-Nano has changed then no its stems won't work on the UD.

2> If you're going to mostly use thru glass then the Standard Core would be a better option because it'll balance/sit better on the GonGs/NonGs.

3> I like non-glass stems for durability and micro sized dosing options. The SS stems also have a nice cooling effect that seems stronger than the glass at times IMO.

4> Excluding very high and low density woods it becomes mostly a matter of aesthetics really. Of the Birthday Vapes the most dense (by far) is the figured Walnut. One of those in a Standard Core would probably suit you very well. It's probably 50% denser than the Mahogany.

 

[ZC]

@underdog

IIRC you once mentioned the plan was to rework the air core and then phase out the standard core. Is that still true?

 

[underdog]

@underdog

IIRC you once mentioned the plan was to rework the air core and then phase out the standard core. Is that still true?

Hmm.. yes and no?

The goal was/is to get the Air Core to a production revision I was happy with (the current design) and then phase the Standard Core out of production so I can redesign it. I still plan on doing that it's just a matter of getting enough time to do so.

 

[Stevenski]

What I would suggest for you @LazyVaper would be to buy a standard core of your choice with the following stems

• Thick glass D/D stem
• S/S D/D stem (unbreakable option)
• 14mm GonG
• NonG in the size of your choosing (unbreakable option)

If you wanted to add some more stems get a 3 pack of stems on sale, a J hook & some spare screens so you will be set for quite a while.

 

[6079Smith]

These were my exact picks my first go 'round, solid lineup @Stevenski

Something I had wished I realized beforehand was that the long 14 GonG doubles nicely as a direct draw, if more into water use this could perform double-duty and free up another stem option

 

[shredder]

What I would suggest for you @LazyVaper would be to buy a standard core of your choice with the following stems

• Thick glass D/D stem
• S/S D/D stem (unbreakable option)
• 14mm GonG
• NonG in the size of your choosing (unbreakable option)

If you wanted to add some more stems get a 3 pack of stems on sale, a J hook & some spare screens so you will be set for quite a while.

Good call!

Especially on the nong, gong's. And extra screens, and so on. great advice.

Lately I'm using my dogs mostly with water. And ussualy in a room with cement floors, so I buy 3 packs of glass gongs.

The nongs will last forever. And at last check they still have the oversized ss stem and oversized nongs. As long as you don't loose them, one of each is fine.

And for micro loads for micro dosing, a glass stem, with a ss tip inserted and held in place with silicone tubing becomes another option.

The ss options are mostly no stirring required as well. I ussualy don't stir smaller loads in glass stems but I do for larger loads in larger stems.

And as long as I'm rambling, you can run your 12v underdog on battery packs for portability.

 

[Madcap79]

I would vote for standard core. All my Dogs are standard and heat up quick! Started using the oversized SS stem. It's a beast for sure but works great. Searching for optimal voltage setting at the moment.

 

[Stevenski]

Something I had wished I realized beforehand was that the long 14 GonG doubles nicely as a direct draw, if more into water use this could perform double-duty and free up another stem option

The only concern I have there is that the GonG's are quite a bit thinner than the thick D/D stem. Otherwise it is a great choice for an all round stem option especially if you live in the US.

Good call!

Especially on the nong, gong's. And extra screens, and so on. great advice.

Lately I'm using my dogs mostly with water. And ussualy in a room with cement floors, so I buy 3 packs of glass gongs.

The nongs will last forever. And at last check they still have the oversized ss stem and oversized nongs. As long as you don't loose them, one of each is fine.

And for micro loads for micro dosing, a glass stem, with a ss tip inserted and held in place with silicone tubing becomes another option.

The ss options are mostly no stirring required as well. I ussualy don't stir smaller loads in glass stems but I do for larger loads in larger stems.

And as long as I'm rambling, you can run your 12v underdog on battery packs for portability.

Being in Oz with freight so high I needed to have bulletproof reliability & the option of unbreakable components. Therefore when I placed my initial order I went with overkill is the best solution. Knowing what I now know I would have gotten more GonG's as I prefer them in a J hook over a D/D stem even though my floor is tiled. If you are partial to the GonG I would suggest a small ring of silicone so you can remove it when it is hot & minimize the burnage, droppage, smashage on the concretus.

With my station set up I have all I need on any given day.

I would vote for standard core. All my Dogs are standard and heat up quick! Started using the oversized SS stem. It's a beast for sure but works great. Searching for optimal voltage setting at the moment.

I would not want my O/S S/S thrown at me. Fucker would hurt more than a little!

 

[LazyVaper]

Back on page 502 / post #12547@underdog showed some travel cases...

Looks like some of you guys finally noticed the travel cases I snuck onto the site a month or two back lol. I really like these little cases, the small is a great size for a travel pack with a single Twig kit and the larger can hold a couple Twigs and various other goodies as well.

(pictures removed for brevity)

...I don't see those cases on the website now, unless I'm overlooking them. Are they still available? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work for the Nano as well. I see lots of folks using Pelican (or similar) hardshell cases, but those soft travel cases look nice and small and simple (and hopefully cheap?). If those travel cases are no longer available, anything similar to them from other places (e.g. Amazon)?

Excluding very high and low density woods it becomes mostly a matter of aesthetics really. Of the Birthday Vapes the most dense (by far) is the figured Walnut. One of those in a Standard Core would probably suit you very well. It's probably 50% denser than the Mahogany.

Is there a weight/density difference between Figured Walnut and Chico Black Walnut?

What I would suggest for you @LazyVaper would be to buy a standard core of your choice with the following stems

• Thick glass D/D stem
• S/S D/D stem (unbreakable option)
• 14mm GonG
• NonG in the size of your choosing (unbreakable option)

If you wanted to add some more stems get a 3 pack of stems on sale, a J hook & some spare screens so you will be set for quite a while.

Hehe, I've already filled a shopping cart (but haven't yet pulled the trigger) on the Underdog site, and I picked out nearly the same stems, except I replaced the 14mm GonG with a second thick glass D/D, and specified 18mm for the NonG. I only have one water tool, a D020-D, which has an 18mm female joint. I'm not huge into water tools, and don't see myself acquiring more any time soon, so I think the 14mm GonG would go unused.

By the way, @underdog, one simple thing users might appreciate are some silicone stem gards, like EpicVape sells. These are nice because they give you something to hold onto that is not hot, and perhaps more importantly, they are octagonal, rather than round, so they prevent stems from rolling.

Thanks all! (Although, maybe a no thanks is in order, since this site isn't doing my wallet any favors! )

 

[ltv]

When will the portable underdog become available?

 

[underdog]

Back on page 502 / post #12547@underdog showed some travel cases...



(pictures removed for brevity)

...I don't see those cases on the website now, unless I'm overlooking them. Are they still available? I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work for the Nano as well. I see lots of folks using Pelican (or similar) hardshell cases, but those soft travel cases look nice and small and simple (and hopefully cheap?). If those travel cases are no longer available, anything similar to them from other places (e.g. Amazon)?



Is there a weight/density difference between Figured Walnut and Chico Black Walnut?



Hehe, I've already filled a shopping cart (but haven't yet pulled the trigger) on the Underdog site, and I picked out nearly the same stems, except I replaced the 14mm GonG with a second thick glass D/D, and specified 18mm for the NonG. I only have one water tool, a D020-D, which has an 18mm female joint. I'm not huge into water tools, and don't see myself acquiring more any time soon, so I think the 14mm GonG would go unused.

By the way, @underdog, one simple thing users might appreciate are some silicone stem gards, like EpicVape sells. These are nice because they give you something to hold onto that is not hot, and perhaps more importantly, they are octagonal, rather than round, so they prevent stems from rolling.

Thanks all! (Although, maybe a no thanks is in order, since this site isn't doing my wallet any favors! )

We don't have any more of the cases, you can find them here though: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/browse/EVA-Shell-Cases/0000003123

There are also plenty of options on Amazon but it can take a bit of work searching thru the case options there to find one with the dimensions you want. Either way they work great, are affordable and much smaller than a Pelican type case.

The Figured Walnut is typically a bit denser than the Chico Black Walnut.. maybe 15-20%?

When will the portable underdog become available?

All UDs can be easily portable by adding a battery pack so in that regard portable UDs are available now. If you mean a portable with integrated batteries then I can't really say since it's not something we're working on. The engineering/design needs of an integrated portable and a Log style vape are just about opposites of each other so would need an entirely different approach and a start from scratch.

 

[Max1045]

Hi, I was just curious about your pricing. There are a few different air cores that are down in the ~$150 range, but I'm more interested in the standard core. Do they ever get close, or do they tend always start in the ~$200 range?

 

[underdog]

Hi, I was just curious about your pricing. There are a few different air cores that are down in the ~$150 range, but I'm more interested in the standard core. Do they ever get close, or do they tend always start in the ~$200 range?

Standard Cores (SC) don't often get that low in price but once in a while (a couple times a year maybe) we'll have a Vape Special with the SC in the $169 - $179 range. Periodically we also have Lost Dogs with SC that end up in the $175 - $200 range.