tolerance tips?

[gettin lifted]

as you may or may not know from my last thread, jwh ruined my thc tolerance. if you want the back story on that then look at it.

so now ive determined that i am in need of a serious tolerance break if i want to get high on weed again. which is really sad because before i had started using jwh it would only take me 0.1g of good weed through my SSV to get me nice and toasty. i cant even get a buzz off vaping a full gram in one sitting now. (im sure you have nightmares of this happening to you lol)

i know that exercise and proper diet is the way to go but was wondering if someone could be a bit more clear. ive read threads all over the net and all of them have good points but dont quite have what im looking for.

so here is what i was thinking and i hope you can say if thats a good idea or give me other trips to speed this process up.

at least 5 small meals a day consisting of high nutrition foods. thinking this would be best in terms of keeping my metabolism working around the clock. i still need proper food ideas though, im sure some foods cleanse faster then others. was thinking of uping my b vitamen intake. (i already take a multivitamen daily) of course a bunch of water. also thinking cranberry juice if i can find a brand that isnt just 5% juice. ive heard caffeine is good for detoxing. was considering coffee for this but ive read coffee contains toxins that can slow down the process. so im thinking 1-2 cups of green tea a day for my caffiene.

of course im gonna try to exercise as often as i can.


any miracle foods/drinks out there that will speed this up?

im planning to start all of this tomorrow. the plan is to follow this until at least christmas. figure 3 weeks is plenty of time if i try hard enough and would be nice to reward myself on christmas.

thanks

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

gettin lifted??? i wuv to share dvds, on heath & stuff.cureent docs r the world according to monsanto http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6262083407501596844# the rockefeller empire 2010 & what in the world are they spaying? & curetoothdecay.com 3 vids on utube ; basic tips may help like first ting in mornin have glass of h2o with fresh lemon or lime half squeezed in then u may find sum tings helpful in these sites 4 healthwise try shirleys-wellness-cafe.com alkalizeforhealth.net cancure.org fruitgod.com livingnutrition.com phoenixtears.ca http://quackpotwatch.org/ dunno share sum mor sites with me, if any gud nu ones thcx??????????????????????????????????????

 

[JJ420]

I'm thinking dabbin' some BHO may get you back on track?

Really though a year was the span of my break once(only due to having no connect at the time), and that first joint was like hitting it for the first time all over again - magical.

 

[luchiano]

To get a fast cleanse just juice dark green leafy(kale, collard greens) vegetables and add a little orange juice cabbage and broccoli. This juice gets your liver to detoxify chemicals and flush them out while still enhancing your bloodcells health. Doing some weight training is good also because it is basically a nerve strengthener and cannabis affects the nerves.

You can also take some brassica tea or their new pills to enhance detoxification. Make sure you get the real deal from johns hopkins researchers.

BTW, you should do this daily and not just to get back to normal because being that your system will stay clean you will keep a good tolerance while also getting nice affects from your herb.

www.Brassica.com

You can go to macys or look online for a Jack lalane juicer. It's effecient and it's quiet compared to the cheaper kind which are loud and don't extract as much juice.

 

[crawdad]

interesting. can someone point to me an authoritative document (research preferred) as i think im missing something basic here.

cannabinoid receptors responsible for mind alterations are in the brain, not other organs. my thinking with tolerance led me to believe that the receptors would need to be freed up and left alone so the brain could sort of "forget" or "let go" of the typical response it has when a receptor is paired with a cannabinol such as THC.

so it would seem to me that time is the real issue instead of diet unless some of the remaining cannobinoids elsewhere in your body actually does have THC and other cannabinoids responsible for mind altering receptors, that would be news to me.

 

[DevoTheStrange]

I'm thinking dabbin' some BHO may get you back on track?

Really though a year was the span of my break once(only due to having no connect at the time), and that first joint was like hitting it for the first time all over again - magical.

I would think that BHO would be the one thing you would want to stay away from if your trying to get your tolerance down... wouldn't jumping right into BHO when your trying to get your tolerance to drop just prolong the lowering of the tolerance.

 

[luchiano]

interesting. can someone point to me an authoritative document (research preferred) as i think im missing something basic here.

cannabinoid receptors responsible for mind alterations are in the brain, not other organs. my thinking with tolerance led me to believe that the receptors would need to be freed up and left alone so the brain could sort of "forget" or "let go" of the typical response it has when a receptor is paired with a cannabinol such as THC.

so it would seem to me that time is the real issue instead of diet unless some of the remaining cannobinoids elsewhere in your body actually does have THC and other cannabinoids responsible for mind altering receptors, that would be news to me.

The receptors are in the brain but once you take in a lot of herb especially quickly like smoking/vaping your body will most likely store a good amount into the fat cells and over time be slowly released and make metabolites which will still cause the body to "see" the substance is still in the body. Until you flush everything out it won't make more receptor sites available and this is why you won't get the good high as the thread starter is suggesting. The more metabolites the more the affects.

By flushing out the system by using these foods you are speeding up the system. If all you did was just not puff it can take a while and still might not be as good as it can be if done with the right foods. If your diet is horrible it won't be nearly as good, you will just be nice because you haven't puffed in a while but the same reasons why you took a break will come back in time until herb just isn't the same for you. This is why a lot of older people don't like strong herb or puff a lot of it if they puffed a lot in their younger years, they have essentially worn out their receptors.

 

[SalamiCity]

Heh, I've been vaping daily for over a year and my tolerance is lower than ever, .02 gets me feeling good, it's great, never had to take a T-Break or anything. I heard Vitamin C enhances it, exercise also produces phynolphaline, like when you work out and get a "runner's high."

 

[gettin lifted]

i appreciate the tips but i believe you guys are forgetting that JWH ruined my THC tolerance and not weed. i was getting plenty high, really high actually before i started smoking jwh.

ive been smoking/vaping weed everyday, a few times a day, since i was 14. im 20 now so thats 6 years and i never had any tolerance issues with weed until i quit smoking it and switched to jwh to pass my annual employment urine analysis.

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

so gettin lifted, any of the websites on health help? fruitgod.com is interestin or the mosantofilm.com?

 

[luchiano]

JHW is a synthetic version of thc meaning it hits the same receptors thc does so the tips I gave still can be used in fact it can be used for other things as well including alcohol.

The reason why you haven't been through this before is because when you smoke/vape weed it isn't high in thc unless it's potent hash/oil or you've eaten a lot of herb which metabolises into a more potent form of thc and in these cases the same thing happens which is after a while regular bud does nothing for you. I'm trying to show you how to prevent this is well as keeping the little herb you do vape to stay giving a potent feeling and to still be as strong as the first time you puffed it.

The reason why vaping weed isn't developing into a problem is because the level of thc is small enough for your body to flush the thc and metabolites within a day or two depending on diet and lifestyle but again the methods I mentioned speeds up the process which means by the time you puff the next day it will still feel like the first time.

 

[gettin lifted]

JHW is a synthetic version of thc meaning it hits the same receptors thc does so the tips I gave still can be used in fact it can be used for other things as well including alcohol.

The reason why you haven't been through this before is because when you smoke/vape weed it isn't high in thc unless it's potent hash/oil or you've eaten a lot of herb which metabolises into a more potent form of thc and in these cases the same thing happens which is after a while regular bud does nothing for you. I'm trying to show you how to prevent this is well as keeping the little herb you do vape to stay giving a potent feeling and to still be as strong as the first time you puffed it.

The reason why vaping weed isn't developing into a problem is because the level of thc is small enough for your body to flush the thc and metabolites within a day or two depending on diet and lifestyle but again the methods I mentioned speeds up the process which means by the time you puff the next day it will still feel like the first time.

i hope people can use my story of synth cannabinoids and stay away from them. ill never use them again. to be honest i think these synths are AT LEAST 10 times as potent as high grade. which would make them plenty hard to detox from especially if you used them like i did everyday for a month straight. do you believe i could detox well enough by christmas that i may be able to get a good high?

i exercise regularly. i have a year old lab pup that keeps me plenty busy and the girlfriend and i like to kayak on the weekends. not to mention im on my feet 8 hours a day as a waiter.

eating shouldn't be an issue, my girlfriend is vegetarian and shes buying double grocies for the next few weeks until at least christmas. this is gonna be hard because im a steak and hamburger fiend. got to do it though.

thanks again.

 

[luchiano]

If you eat a lot of broccoli, cabbage, and kale or collard greens with your meals everyday along with exercise you should be detoxed by then. Make sure you eat some extra virgin oilive oil with the vegetables to make them more bioavailable.

If you can get a Jack lalane juicer it would be faster because you can take in way more than if you just eat the vegetables because the juicer seperates the fiber from the juice. It concentrates the vegetables. You should still eat the vegetables because the fiberous parts have a lot of fat soluble nutrients that will keep the detoxifying effects happening longer than if you were to just juice alone.

Also if you juice do it right after you eat your meal so you can have some of the fat soluble nutrients to attach to some of the fat from your meal.

Also Make sure you mix some orange juice with vegetable juice for taste and it also enhances the detoxifying affects.

 

[hemp;)goofy8cheerio]

gary null says add lemon to juice so it'll stay fresh longer in fridge, still prolly gud idea to drink within few hrs, lemon may help prevent oxidation of nutrients & u can juice up a quart or mor; altho u may like a strong blender that way it's all in there the vitamin rich pulp & all??

 

[Revvy]

The "THC" stored in your body is the THC-COOH, the inactive metabolite of 11-OH-THC. Unlike 11-OH-THC and its precursor ?9-THC, THC-COOH is not psychoactive, does not bind to CB receptors, and is not thought to effect tolerance. Its "detoxification" from the body, even if you could do such a thing, would not contribute to a reduce in tolerance.

I'm unaware of if exercise is linked to THC tolerance or not and the magnitude of such a link if it does exist. I'm imagine if linked, the effect would be small but moderate exercise is good for you anyway, so may as well.

 

[luchiano]

gary null says add lemon to juice so it'll stay fresh longer in fridge, still prolly gud idea to drink within few hrs, lemon may help prevent oxidation of nutrients & u can juice up a quart or mor; altho u may like a strong blender that way it's all in there the vitamin rich pulp & all??

I don't advise to store your juice unless you have to because it is best when it is fresh. Just make it when you want it.

If you use the whole vegetable with the pulp you won't be able to take everything in. This is why a juicer is so great. Like I stated you should still eat the whole vegetable with your meals but a concentrated drink is also great along with it.

 

[luchiano]

The "THC" stored in your body is the THC-COOH, the inactive metabolite of 11-OH-THC. Unlike 11-OH-THC and its precursor ?9-THC, THC-COOH is not psychoactive, does not bind to CB receptors, and is not thought to effect tolerance. Its "detoxification" from the body, even if you could do such a thing, would not contribute to a reduce in tolerance.

I'm unaware of if exercise is linked to THC tolerance or not and the magnitude of such a link if it does exist. I'm imagine if linked, the effect would be small but moderate exercise is good for you anyway, so may as well.

If you read my post I stated the metabolites are "seen" by the body and this is how it knows how much to downregulate receptors which is happening when you can't get high off of the same herb you once did. When you flush these out the system you can make more receptors again and get high off of the same amount again.

Exercise works because it makes you sweat and that is a way of flushing the metabolites, eating fiber is another way because you excrete the metabolites that bind to the fiber and urinating is another way BUT in order for a lot of these metabolites to get washed away fast they have to turn into water soluble compounds and this is what the detoxifying enzymes do and the foods I mentioned speed up this process of turning these compounds into water soluble so they can be sweated or urinated out.

You can take the info I'm giving or just dismiss it but trust me this method works to prevent tolerance as well as, in my theory, prevents cancer. Once you get used to the taste juicing is wonderful but you have to know what to juice and the foods I mentioned should be your base as well as the brassica tea, sprouts, or pills because they contain way more of the compounds we want than a large head of broccoli and it is coming from the sprouts instead of just being manufactured and not knowing what problems it may have in the long run.

BTW, adding a little psyllium husk to your juice helps with the fiber. GNC has a great brand to use because it is a powder. If you have a blender use that instead of a spoon because it prevents the powder from clumping up. A hand blender is even better.

 

[Revvy]

"Tolerance to cannabinoid effects may occur due to pharmacodynamic changes (downregulation and internalization of receptors), or, to a lesser extent, due to pharmacokinetic changes (absorption, metabolism). Down regulation of cannabinoid receptors differs in distinct brain areas and corresponds to the resulting effects. Application of THC over a period of five days decreased specific receptor binding in different receptor sites of the brain ranging from 20 to 60 percent. Since tolerance does not develop to the actions of the acid metabolite THC-COOH (THC-11-oic-acid), some differences in tolerance for different effects may be due to additional non-receptor-mediated effects."

Grotenhermen, Russo. Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential , pg. 62, New York: The Hawthorn Integrative Healing Press, 2002

THC-COOH is excreted naturally, primarally in feces but in urine as well, as it is released from fat cells. The THC-COOH that has been released does not need additional fiber in the diet to be excreted, its already on its way out. The fiber in your gastrointestinal tract doesn't increase the rate of release of THC-COOH, so I'm not seeing how what you're proposing would work. I doubt you'll find any study that indicates that increased fiber consumption leads to increased detection of THC metabolites in urine or sweat. I've looked. The information you're giving out isn't supported and that's because it's very likely untrue.

 

[luchiano]

"Tolerance to cannabinoid effects may occur due to pharmacodynamic changes (downregulation and internalization of receptors), or, to a lesser extent, due to pharmacokinetic changes (absorption, metabolism). Down regulation of cannabinoid receptors differs in distinct brain areas and corresponds to the resulting effects. Application of THC over a period of five days decreased specific receptor binding in different receptor sites of the brain ranging from 20 to 60 percent. Since tolerance does not develop to the actions of the acid metabolite THC-COOH (THC-11-oic-acid), some differences in tolerance for different effects may be due to additional non-receptor-mediated effects."

Grotenhermen, Russo. Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential , pg. 62, New York: The Hawthorn Integrative Healing Press, 2002

THC-COOH is excreted naturally, primarally in feces but in urine as well, as it is released from fat cells. The THC-COOH that has been released does not need additional fiber in the diet to be excreted, its already on its way out. The fiber in your gastrointestinal tract doesn't increase the rate of release of THC-COOH, so I'm not seeing how what you're proposing would work. I doubt you'll find any study that indicates that increased fiber consumption leads to increased detection of THC metabolites in urine or sweat. I've looked. The information you're giving out isn't supported and that's because it's very likely untrue.

Again look at what I posted, I stated that the body "sees" the metabolites and this is how it knows how much to downregulate NOT the actual metabolite doing the regulation. In other words it isn't like thc whereas it isn't hitting the actual receptors and causing this affect, it is doing something that nobody knows but it is these metabolites that lets the body knows what to do.

Read the sentence you highlighted, it states "Since tolerance does not develop to the ACTIONS of the acid metabolite THC-COOH (THC-11-oic-acid), some differences in tolerance for different effects may be due to additional NON-RECEPTOR-MEDIATED EFFECTS.

As far as fiber not increasing the rate of the metabolites being excreted you must not know what fiber does. When you eat fiber, specifically soluble fiber, it binds to water and some fats such as cholesterol and increase the rate of excretion(as long as you drink a good amount of water) and being that some of the metabolites will be directed towards your gut you will get rid of these metabolites and it will be a good amount because soluble fiber can hold a good amount of liquid. Most Americans barely eat ten grams of fiber so I doubt there would be enough in the average persons diet to get rid of a good amount of the metabolites.

Fiber also increases the rate of excretion by binding to cholesterol and bile and excreting it and this in turns brings more fat to go to the liver to make more cholesterol and bile and being that some of the thc metabolites are in the fat they also go along for the ride to the liver and get turn into the cholesterol and bile. SO you can see how diet enhances many ways to excrete metabolites from your system and keep your tolerance low if you want it to stay that way meaning each puff will feel fresh everyday.


I didn't state fiber will increase the metabolites in the urine I stated the detoxifying enzymes turn fat soluble toxins or in this case metabolites into water soluble metabolites and this makes it easier for the system to get rid of the metabolites through sweating and also through urination. These enzymes are called phase I and phase II enzymes if you want to do the research on this process.

EDIT: I just did a quick search on the thc metabolite and guess what I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11-nor-9-Carboxy-THC

"While 11-COOH-THC does not have any psychoactive effects in its own right, it may still have a role in the analgesic and antiinflammatory effects of cannabis,[9][10] and has also been shown to moderate the effects of THC itself which may help explain the difference in subjective effects seen between occasional and regular users of cannabis.[11][12]"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3032669

"A major metabolite of delta 1-tetrahydrocannabinol reduces its cataleptic effect in mice.

Burstein S, Hunter SA, Latham V, Renzulli L.
Abstract

The results described here demonstrate that THC-induced catalepsy in mice can be substantially inhibited by the prior administration of delta 1-THC-7-oic acid, the major metabolite of THC in most species including humans. This raises the possibility that the intensity and duration of action of THC may depend to a large degree on the levels of this metabolite at the sites of action."

 

[gettin lifted]

"Tolerance to cannabinoid effects may occur due to pharmacodynamic changes (downregulation and internalization of receptors), or, to a lesser extent, due to pharmacokinetic changes (absorption, metabolism). Down regulation of cannabinoid receptors differs in distinct brain areas and corresponds to the resulting effects. Application of THC over a period of five days decreased specific receptor binding in different receptor sites of the brain ranging from 20 to 60 percent. Since tolerance does not develop to the actions of the acid metabolite THC-COOH (THC-11-oic-acid), some differences in tolerance for different effects may be due to additional non-receptor-mediated effects."

Grotenhermen, Russo. Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential , pg. 62, New York: The Hawthorn Integrative Healing Press, 2002

THC-COOH is excreted naturally, primarally in feces but in urine as well, as it is released from fat cells. The THC-COOH that has been released does not need additional fiber in the diet to be excreted, its already on its way out. The fiber in your gastrointestinal tract doesn't increase the rate of release of THC-COOH, so I'm not seeing how what you're proposing would work. I doubt you'll find any study that indicates that increased fiber consumption leads to increased detection of THC metabolites in urine or sweat. I've looked. The information you're giving out isn't supported and that's because it's very likely untrue.

i appreciated your info revvy. wouldn't happen to have any info on how jwh makes thc uneffective? because thats my issue. i think its all receptor related.

 

[luchiano]

Gettin lifted, I'm not starting an argument but did you not read my post proving that it is the metabolites affecting the thc receptors?. I even used revvys post that he tried to use against my argument to rpove me right. He was also wrong about fiber and it helping excrete the metabolites.

Anyway the knowledge is there for you to use.

 

[Revvy]

Again look at what I posted, I stated that the body "sees" the metabolites and this is how it knows how much to downregulate NOT the actual metabolite doing the regulation. In other words it isn't like thc whereas it isn't hitting the actual receptors and causing this affect, it is doing something that nobody knows but it is these metabolites that lets the body knows what to do.

Read the sentence you highlighted, it states "Since tolerance does not develop to the ACTIONS of the acid metabolite THC-COOH (THC-11-oic-acid), some differences in tolerance for different effects may be due to additional NON-RECEPTOR-MEDIATED EFFECTS.

Conceded.

As far as fiber not increasing the rate of the metabolites being excreted you must not know what fiber does. When you eat fiber, specifically soluble fiber, it binds to water and some fats such as cholesterol and increase the rate of excretion(as long as you drink a good amount of water) and being that some of the metabolites will be directed towards your gut you will get rid of these metabolites and it will be a good amount because soluble fiber can hold a good amount of liquid. Most Americans barely eat ten grams of fiber so I doubt there would be enough in the average persons diet to get rid of a good amount of the metabolites.

Fiber also increases the rate of excretion by binding to cholesterol and bile and excreting it and this in turns brings more fat to go to the liver to make more cholesterol and bile and being that some of the thc metabolites are in the fat they also go along for the ride to the liver and get turn into the cholesterol and bile. SO you can see how diet enhances many ways to excrete metabolites from your system and keep your tolerance low if you want it to stay that way meaning each puff will feel fresh everyday.


I didn't state fiber will increase the metabolites in the urine I stated the detoxifying enzymes turn fat soluble toxins or in this case metabolites into water soluble metabolites and this makes it easier for the system to get rid of the metabolites through sweating and also through urination. These enzymes are called phase I and phase II enzymes if you want to do the research on this process.

The THC-COOH on its way out is on its way out. It doesn't need fiber to leave, it's already leaving. Fiber does not increase the rate at which THC-COOH is excreted from the body.

Cholesterol synthesis is complicated but under normal circumstances does not involve stored fat being sent to the liver to be broken down for cholesterol reclamation, incidentally releasing THC.

Which enzymes are turning THC-COOH into a water soluble metabolite and what is it being turned into?

There really isn't alot of support for detoxification from doctors.

 

[aero18]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3032669

"A major metabolite of delta 1-tetrahydrocannabinol reduces its cataleptic effect in mice.

Burstein S, Hunter SA, Latham V, Renzulli L.
Abstract

The results described here demonstrate that THC-induced catalepsy in mice can be substantially inhibited by the prior administration of delta 1-THC-7-oic acid, the major metabolite of THC in most species including humans. This raises the possibility that the intensity and duration of action of THC may depend to a large degree on the levels of this metabolite at the sites of action."

Thank you luchiano for this article! I have access to the journal in one of my university's libraries so I will check it out and read their findings. I am really curious as to how the metabolites affect the body's tolerance to THC.

 

[luchiano]

EDIT: Made a mistake

 

[luchiano]

Revvy, I'm not going to explain again how fiber increases the rate of metabolites going out of the body because I did two times already and you still don't agree so it's pointless to keep doing this.
Even if you don't agree with the cholesterol explainantion you can't deny that fiber increases bile to be excreted instead of recycled and in order for more bile to be made some of your body fat has to be used along with cholesterol to make more. You're probably not going to agree with that but that's your choice.

BTW, why do you think a lot of people use the certo pack method to beat drug test?. It's because it contains pectin which a soluble fiber whether they know it or not. I have read reports of people in the army smoking hours before taking a test and passing due to drinking a lot of the certo packs. That was a rare one but there were numerous people who took certo and passed even though they only took the packs the night before the test. Do a google search and see for yourself.


To state there isn't a lot of support for detoxfying is crazy because it has been shown many times that the foods I mentioned help keep cancer at bay by increasing the rate of detoxification by the phase I and II enzymes.

This will be the last post explaining myself because it's getting irritating stating the same thing. I even showed you articles showing how metabolites affect the thc receptor which is a big find in my eyes and you are still going at me instead of at least admitting that it may play some affect which means nothing I state will make you see what I'm stating as truth so that's it on my end as far as proving my point. Thanks for making me look for that article to prove my point because it backs up what I already thought.