To my friends in California... Prop19 Discussion

[2clicker]

45% is enough to make me optimistic for 2012.

fuckin right... this shit isnt over by a long shot

i believe there are 3 or 4 more states that held voting on medicinal yesterday. the wheels are in motion. more studies will be done and that will only benefit our cause IMO. our cause HAS to be proactive though... like making sure the US public is aware of the REAL dangers of cannabis. we have to make sure to make the info on cannabis readily and easily available. in fact we need to be cramming that shit down everyones throats. eventually we will win, but how long that will take im not sure...

 

[Plotinus]

Let's put it in context.

The legalization lobbies (DPA, ACLU, MPP, SSDP, etc.) *begged* Rich Lee (Prop 19's main architect, Oaksterdam U founder) to wait until 2012 to try to get this thing passed, for two reasons.

1) This was obviously a conservative wave year - not a good place for a pro-marijuana ballot initiative to find itself; and

2) Young people - the base for a pro-legalization initiative - simply don't turn out for midterm elections. They never have. Without them Prop 19 was bound to lose.

For awhile it seemed as if the polls were swinging up, so I kept my mouth shut. (And anyway what good does it do anyone to be a professional buzzkill?) But these basic facts were always true, and they doomed Prop 19 before it got started.

All that said -- is this a loss?

It all depends on what the movement does with this result. If we let the most cynical among us determine the meaning of this vote, and we all shake our heads and go home knowing that Americans will never support sane drug laws; if we allow the right-wing media to tar this defeat as a nationwide referendum on marijuana; if we pack up our lobbying and campaign apparatuses; if we "take our ball and go home," in other words...then, yes, this is a tremendous loss, one from which we probably won't recover.

But if we choose to see this as the next step on the (very short!) road to legalization, I don't believe it will be a loss. It's a loss of many millions of dollars for Rich Lee, but he didn't listen to good advice and probably had that coming.

But for the rest of us, Prop 19 pushed marijuana into the mainstream like never before. We've claimed and now hold the moral high ground. There's almost no one out there, aside from the dumbest politicians and law enforcement officials, willing to say that marijuana is inherently dangerous or bad - their only arguments are ridiculous slippery-slope constructions that, increasingly, Americans see right through. And our best chance yet - 2012 - is still before us.

We have two years to double down and make one stick, and I think we are perfectly positioned to do it. We have the money, we have the organizational ability, and we have the moral high ground. All we need to do now is get out there and get the votes.

 

[2clicker]

Let's put it in context.

The legalization lobbies (DPA, ACLU, MPP, SSDP, etc.) *begged* Rich Lee (Prop 19's main architect, Oaksterdam U founder) to wait until 2012 to try to get this thing passed, for two reasons.

1) This was obviously a conservative wave year - not a good place for a pro-marijuana ballot initiative to find itself; and

2) Young people - the base for a pro-legalization initiative - simply don't turn out for midterm elections. They never have. Without them Prop 19 was bound to lose.

For awhile it seemed as if the polls were swinging up, so I kept my mouth shut. (And anyway what good does it do anyone to be a professional buzzkill?) But these basic facts were always true, and they doomed Prop 19 before it got started.

All that said -- is this a loss?

It all depends on what the movement does with this result. If we let the most cynical among us determine the meaning of this vote, and we all shake our heads and go home knowing that Americans will never support sane drug laws; if we allow the right-wing media to tar this defeat as a nationwide referendum on marijuana; if we pack up our lobbying and campaign apparatuses; if we "take our ball and go home," in other words...then, yes, this is a tremendous loss, one from which we probably won't recover.

But if we choose to see this as the next step on the (very short!) road to legalization, I don't believe it will be a loss. It's a loss of many millions of dollars for Rich Lee, but he didn't listen to good advice and probably had that coming.

But for the rest of us, Prop 19 pushed marijuana into the mainstream like never before. We've claimed and now hold the moral high ground. There's almost no one out there, aside from the dumbest politicians and law enforcement officials, willing to say that marijuana is inherently dangerous or bad - their only arguments are ridiculous slippery-slope constructions that, increasingly, Americans see right through. And our best chance yet - 2012 - is still before us.

We have two years to double down and make one stick, and I think we are perfectly positioned to do it. We have the money, we have the organizational ability, and we have the moral high ground. All we need to do now is get out there and get the votes.

nice post

Mod note: From the rules page- Don't make short posts that offer no significant content. You have two of them in this thread.

 

[aesthyrian]

Corporate money won once again, but they can;t buy everyone's vote. We just need to work harder for change and progress in 2012.

Here is a good site to see what counties vote what http://vote.sos.ca.gov/maps/ballot-measures/19/

shame on you humbolt. Did growers really let their greed and desire for $ trump over the peoples right to possess and use the greatest flower on this planet? I hope not.

 

[OO]

I am also disappointed as I think it would have set precedent for other states as well. The real change, however, needs to happen on a Federal level.

fuck precedent.

nothing should be decided by precedent.

 

[OO]

Corporate money won once again, but they can;t buy everyone's vote. We just need to work harder for change and progress in 2012.

Here is a good site to see what counties vote what http://vote.sos.ca.gov/maps/ballot-measures/19/

shame on you humbolt. Did growers really let their greed and desire for $ trump over the peoples right to possess and use the greatest flower on this planet? I hope not.

corporations have nothing to do with prop 19 failing. public opinion isn't changing quick enough.
the media is using the stereotypes of old to drive the opinions of the public, especially the parenting generation with little to no exposure to pot.

 

[aesthyrian]

Yes, much of it has to do with the baby boomer generation not willing to have a serious discussion about pot, especially with their children. Which is just a shame.

 

[Pappy]

And double fuck "The Rand Corporation" for their phony study backed by the Mexican Drug Cartels.
Legalization wouldn't make a dent like I'm Bucky Dent!

 

[OO]

we can make it happen in 2012, we need to start talking to everyone we can on every forum we are members of.
if you want to get people to agree with you:
don't be confrontational
ask "why?" alot, seek reasoning from people.
if you get to the point where it seems their political beliefs are different than yours I.E. they are dem, or repub, and you are libertarian, explain why your political beliefs are what they are.
offer alternative solutions to the reasons they want to see marijuana reform fail, I.E. if they are worried about their kids getting their hands on pot, explain to them that their parenting will have much to do with their child's choice.
also take a stand that marijuana is a much safer alternative for people who want a release and don't like alcohol. it's an alternative that should be available to them.
any more advice guys?

 

[stinkmeaner]

Sometimes I just think to myself as to how on earth can someone tell us what we can and can't put into our bodies. Who ever gave the governments this much power, our ancestors would be rolling in their graves.

 

[lwien]

.......

So sad, but the passing of this is inevitable.

 

[2clicker]

Sometimes I just think to myself as to how on earth can someone tell us what we can and can't put into our bodies. Who ever gave the governments this much power, our ancestors would be rolling in their graves.

this is what gets me

and how on earth can someone deny you... earth?

 

[steiner666]

corporations have nothing to do with prop 19 failing. public opinion isn't changing quick enough.
the media is using the stereotypes of old to drive the opinions of the public, especially the parenting generation with little to no exposure to pot.

And who was it that created these inaccurate opinions and bullshit stereotypes in peoples minds and in the media? Good ol' corporate-sponsored US legislation and their fear campaigns. Corporations and $ have EVERYTHING to do with anything regarding the legality of this pant, Prop 19 included.

 

[DrMephisto]

.......

So sad, but the passing of this is inevitable.

/agree.
Just a pretty awful election all around the country for MMJ reform, but there are some bright points, at least in how close the individual results were. This was a "red" election cycle to be sure, but the fact remains that polls are getting much closer every time, and it is purely a matter of time. Even most of the opponents to these decriminalization/legalization/medical laws concede that the current prohibition is wrong, it's just a matter of how to go about changing laws. 2012 could conceivably be a better cycle for our kind. Like him or not, Obama does bring the youth vote out...much more so than a mudslinging mid-term, and it's going to take the youth vote to bring about change.
-w-

 

[Beezleb]

If it was written better to give considerations to places like humboldt county then I think it would have had a chance but these areas were against it if my understanding is correct. Basically the growers disliked it.

 

[stinkmeaner]

.......

So sad, but the passing of this is inevitable.

I really hope so.

Do you guys think this will come up again every election until it passes?

 

[lwien]

If it was written better to give considerations to places like humboldt county then I think it would have had a chance but these areas were against it if my understanding is correct. Basically the growers disliked it.

The growers comprise such a minuscule percentage of the voting public, that I don't believe this really had any bearing on the outcome.

 

[jeffp]

Obviously we all had high hopes for the passage of Prop 19 and this is a letdown as it would be precedent setting. I know the growers were against it and that's a complex issue onto itself. Also there's criticism of the proposition itself for being badly written, but so what? Couldn't it, if passed, been refined and amended? Let's face it, apathy from young voters and hypocrisy from the boomers who should want to see this happen before they die, is, in my opinion, the blame for it going down. They had the ball like never before and all they had to do was show up on election day to make it happen but that was apparently too much to ask.

 

[Pappy]

It was ultimately defeated, with 53.8% of California voters voting 'No'.

 

[Carbon]

You guys should be happy it was so damn close. That is a statement in itself. That means we'll be ready very soon, and I agree that it should have been on the 2012 ballot in order to have a better chance of passing. If we can get it on there again then it could very well happen.

Allowances for dispensaries in Oregon was shot down as well. It seems that any weed legislation is doomed if its put on a midterm election cycle.

Don't forget all the stoners out there who's last thing on their mind is voting. I know I'm stereotyping but vote by mail might help get some more stoners out there to have their voice heard w/o them having to get off the couch.

 

[aesthyrian]

Sometimes I just think to myself as to how on earth can someone tell us what we can and can't put into our bodies. Who ever gave the governments this much power, our ancestors would be rolling in their graves.

Especially when we can buy and own GUNS, buy all sorts of dangerous prescriptions drugs, tobacco, and even alcohol. We can bungee jump from a bridge and jump out of moving planes. Everyday we get the right to drive multi ton vehicles to work, or just for fun, possibly endangering everyone around us and ourselves if not careful enough.

But a plant that has a nearly impossible OD level, no physical addiction, no long term mental deterioration, and last but not least a plant that has on numerous time by numerous people been used to fight and sometimes cure their cancer.

Buy hey, at least those corporations get to force freed us crude oil products, paper from tree pulp, and lots of fun nasty recreational poison! Hemp can do almost everything better than was we are using now, that's why it is illegal and the largest threat to its legality.

 

[SmokingElectricity]

sad cat is sad.

 

[vapirtoo]

From prohibitionist nyc,
I had to go to FC to find the results of this prop.
Not much coverage in the main media.
Corporate strangulation.
Passing would have been too good to be true.

I just knew my forum members would be all over this shit.

 

[OO]

Obviously we all had high hopes for the passage of Prop 19 and this is a letdown as it would be precedent setting. I know the growers were against it and that's a complex issue onto itself. Also there's criticism of the proposition itself for being badly written, but so what? Couldn't it, if passed, been refined and amended? Let's face it, apathy from young voters and hypocrisy from the boomers who should want to see this happen before they die, is, in my opinion, the blame for it going down. They had the ball like never before and all they had to do was show up on election day to make it happen but that was apparently too much to ask.

the fear was that the generic wording would be open for any judge to interpret which has the possibility of going very badly had they chosen to ignore the "intents" portion of the proposition.

if there's any californians interested in helping to get the initiative on the 2012 ballot, here's Jack Herrer's.
http://youthfederation.com/