TinyMight / TM 2

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
Uh, this is a toxic discussion. And so suspicious.

I've been looking for a cool device to share with others (I myself am happy with the Omni XL & Mag Heater Pro, but Dynavaps are complicated when shared with more than one) and honestly was a bit frustrated because what is available left at least two or three of my wishlist boxes unticked. This one ticks more boxes than I thought I'd have and I'm so happy to have waited for this.

It might be a mistake to spend this amount of paypal cash for an almost blind buy, but it seems like something not only interesting as a device, but also worth supporting as a project. I would really like to see this blossom.

It's hard to understand how people could demand someone to reveal himself in a community that has shown this kind of suspicious behaviour mere days after the project has gone public. I don't remember anyone demanding Herr Storz und Herr Bickel to reveal their backround.

@khelek41girl Thank you for introducing us to this device, I'm really looking forward to it (pre ordered a few hours ago).

Anyone know a source for Mistvape capsules in Europe? :-)
 
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CheebaChiefer

Well-Known Member
Uh, this is a toxic discussion. And so suspicious.

I've been looking for a cool device to share with others (I myself am happy with the Omni XL & Mag Heater Pro, but Dynavaps are complicated when shared with more than one) and honestly was a bit frustrated because what is available left at least two or three of my wishlist boxes unticked. This one ticks more boxes than I thought I'd have and I'm so happy to have waited for this.

It might be a mistake to spend this amount of paypal cash for an almost blind buy, but it seems like something not only interesting as a device, but also worth supporting as a project. I would really like to see this blossom.

It's hard to understand how people could demand someone to reveal himself in a community that has shown this kind of suspicious behaviour mere days after the project has gone public. I don't remember anyone demanding Herr Storz und Herr Bickel to reveal their backround.

@khelek41girl Thank you for introducing us to this device, I'm really looking forward to it (pre ordered a few hours ago).

Anyone know a source for Mistvape capsules in Europe? :-)
And what is exactly "toxic" about the discussion? What is so suspicious? You know what is suspicious and toxic? "Artisan" type one man shops that abandon support for their expensive vapes. If this vendor is Ville Johan Savolanien, as myself and others believe, he has misrepresented product versions that have no difference to the previous iterations or dodge warranty work until the consumer has to contact an Consumer Ombudsman in Finland for his Venus Apollo in order to get what he ordered in the first place. How do you account for his disappearence from his own website here on FC? A sub he started in 2015 and a sub he was on every day up until a year and a half ago. How to explain his web pages and ordering site disappearing for no less than four months last year, long enough he lost the .com designation?

Myself bought two Apollo's from him in early 2018, about a month apart from each other, one blond oak and one dark oak. They were not defective out of the box but with dd type of usage soon developed the exact same defects resulting from design flaws. Yes both were repaired under warranty, however $300+ vapes shouldn't have problems like this so soon. Therein lies my concern, is Ville going to support this new vape, is he going to be a regular support source on-line? And most importantly has he learned any lessons regarding build quality?

And as far as your "example" regarding Herr Storz and Bickel a quick use of any Google machine will reveal their names ie., Markus Storz and Jurgen Bickel! They also star in a half-hour long video in which they are both interviewed and give a tour of the production facility in Germany.

As you have purchased one, and have the mantle of early adopter, let us know the build quality out of the box but more importantly how it holds up under daily driver usage after a year of such usage. Maybe I'll bite then, and if he is truly involved in supporting his user base.
 

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
If this vendor is Ville Johan Savolanien, as myself and others believe [...]

As long as you have no clear evidence (which you in fact have not) it is not wise to accuse someone. It's as simple as that. Has no style too btw (just saying).

And for those interested in this device, your accusations are not informative at all, because there are based on mere suspicions. You have no idea how absurd your actions seem to someone who is interested in this project. Please, take a step back and contemplate.

As you have purchased one, and have the mantle of early adopter, let us know the build quality out of the box but more importantly how it holds up under daily driver usage after a year of such usage. Maybe I'll bite then, and if he is truly involved in supporting his user base.

Note that you do not have to buy this device at all.
 
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CheebaChiefer

Well-Known Member
You have been warned repeatedly about this sort of tirade. Since you haven't learned, this is your 5th warning point and that's a permanent ban.
As long as you have no clear evidence (which you in fact have not) it is not wise to accuse someone. It's as simple as that. Has no style too btw (just saying).

And for those interested in this device, your accusations are not informative at all, because there are based on mere suspicions. You have no idea how absurd your actions seem to someone who is interested in this project. Please, take a step back and contemplate.



Note that you do not have to buy this device at all.
Thanks Captain Obvious in allowing me to make a purchase decision on my own, how magnanimous of you.

No retort regarding Herr Storz & Bickel?? You do know about this new thing called Google?

My "accusations" are from my own experiences with Ville as well as others who were burned as well. If you can spare the time look @ the last few pages of the FC sub for the Venus Apollo, there you will see the statements of others besides myself regarding their dealings with Ville.

There is a minute chance this is someone besides Ville, but I doubt it. How many vape developers exist in Finland? Count em on one hand with left over fingers lol! You're just a fan boy in training.

mod note: Liking a rule-breaking post can earn you a warning point. @muunch and @cr0wley, please review our rules.
 
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Andreaerdna

If God is the answer, then the question is wrong
the top of cooling unit looks alike the top of apollo cooling unit

Is it your creation @villekille2 ?

fuck me for opening this can of worms :doh:

@CheebaChiefer i understand you had a relative bad experience with apollo but you got sorted out in the end as you said. i use my apollo very often and it has no signs of failure coming,still my best portable, and since i use it natively (no more small bubbler on top of it) i had no glass cracking (its quartz, very well cut, not a cheap glass)

I had flawless communication almost all the time. for whatever reason they went stealth for a while and indeed it was not good but i eventually get sorted out (restock of glass tube,i recall you were kind to offer me one while waiting).

not a fanboy but i had a very different experience from your one (besides the black out we both experienced)
 

Abysmal Vapor

Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Ville or not ,the maker deserves respect for bringing such innovative product to the market. I think you have mistaken his humbleness for shadiness.. If the maker wants to start a new company which is not related with his other products it is his very right to do so... Not an exact reference,but if i were to have a fast food joint and buy a restaurant,as an accountant and a guy with a basic business education , i see a lot of reasons to not want to chain both together(also different business partners who want new product ,possibility for new bank loans,etc.. ). One can have as many brands as he want and as many companies as he likes ... It is easy to point your anger at some guy in Finland(a prohibited country with a very strict law and business system,i can only imagine the hurdles involved in launching such product) ,but you dont have such care of who is behind when you are buying your next rebranded plastic vaporizer "made with different parts but the same". We have had our fair share of scammers/deceivers around here,making multiple account posting fake reviews to boost their businesses ,but this was never the case for any of the venus line products.
That being said recently the Venus guys had trouble with their business . Their site was blocked and also sales,so maybe they've had some legal troubles on their head or something like that. So even if they make also the tinymight , i would never think that they are trying to deceive us because they are ashamed of couple of bad reviews which are spammed all around the web. They got many more reason to be proud of their contribution to the vaping world so it is a ridicule to think of it.
I been thinking this for some time ,but now i will say it... I am ashamed of what is happening here and you are breaking or at least walking on the line of breaking a few rules.
Save the drama for your mama ,we are warned ,we can read,no need to bring up over and over again your PTSD from a single vape purchase after almost everypost about these products. .Please if you are in a grown up age pull yourself together and contain this shit . There is a negative feedback thread ,if you want to describe your bad experiences in such detail.Dont know if you trying just to warn the community or seek compassion but i think you are good for both already.
If i were to trade places with any of the makers, i would never visit this place. It is not very welcoming and full of prejustice. I would have to hire someone to defend my online honour fulltime just to keep up with you,which is another +$50 for your vaporizer.
 
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deadlytoaster

Canadian lost in Europe
I think few people truly understand how difficult it is to bring a product to market, especially such a high quality one, in a legal grey area. Boo hoo it's not $100 because it's not made in China by cheap laborer's and sketchy materials.

It's right to be skeptical of a new product, but I like to lend trust as a first instinct rather than elsewise. The TinyMight looks very solid and I can't wait to have one in my hands in the coming weeks. +1 for the hype train, choo chooo!
 

blokenoname

DIY Log Dabbler 😁🪵💪💨💨💨
Ville or not ,the maker deserves respect for bringing such innovative product to the market. I think you have mistaken his humbleness for shadiness.. If the maker wants to start a new company which is not related with his other products it is his very right to do so... Not an exact reference,but if i were to have a fast food joint and buy a restaurant,as an accountant and a guy with a basic business education , i see a lot of reasons to not want to chain both together(also different business partners who want new product ,possibility for new bank loans,etc.. ). One can have as many brands as he want and as many companies as he likes ... It is easy to point your anger at some guy in Finland(a prohibited country with a very strict law and business system,i can only imagine the hurdles involved in launching such product) ,but you dont have such care of who is behind when you are buying your next rebranded plastic vaporizer "made with different parts but the same". We have had our fair share of scammers/deceivers around here,making multiple account posting fake reviews to boost their businesses ,but this was never the case for any of the venus line products.
That being said recently the Venus guys had trouble with their business . Their site was blocked and also sales,so maybe they've had some legal troubles on their head or something like that. So even if they make also the tinymight , i would never think that they are trying to deceive us because they are ashamed of couple of bad reviews which are spammed all around the web. They got many more reason to be proud of their contribution to the vaping world so it is a ridicule to think of it.
I been thinking this for some time ,but now i will say it... I am ashamed of what is happening here and you are breaking or at least walking on the line of breaking a few rules.
Save the drama for your mama ,we are warned ,we can read,no need to bring up over and over again your PTSD from a single vape purchase after almost everypost about these products. .Please if you are in a grown up age pull yourself together and contain this shit . There is a negative feedback thread ,if you want to describe your bad experiences in such detail.Dont know if you trying just to warn the community or seek compassion but i think you are good for both already.
If i were to trade places with any of the makers, i would never visit this place. It is not very welcoming and full of prejustice. I would have to hire someone to defend my online honour fulltime just to keep up with you,which is another +$50 for your vaporizer.
:clap::clap::clap:
 
blokenoname,
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Siebter

Less soul, more mind
Thanks Captain Obvious in allowing me to make a purchase decision on my own, how magnanimous of you.

It's not meant magnanimous, I actually try to point you towards the obvious fact, that you don't have to buy this product – you don't act as if you already know. You act like someone is forcing you to buy it.

No retort regarding Herr Storz & Bickel?? You do know about this new thing called Google?

I do, but you didn't get my point – my point was that I don't remember anyone demanding a background check towards someone starting a new project. What if I start creating a new vape, will I have to post a curriculum vitae on fc before I'm allowed to do my thing?

There is a minute chance this is someone besides Ville, but I doubt it. How many vape developers exist in Finland? Count em on one hand with left over fingers lol!

You don't even have a vague idea how many vape developers actually exist there. Just because you and I don't know doesn't mean you can dictate what we have to assume.

You're just a fan boy in training.

No. If I'm correct, you paid 600 bucks for two devices within a short period of time. You were the fanboy. I am able to risk this amount of money and feel fine even when things don't work out as I hope.

Again, please contemplate.


Thx mate! :-)
 
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Herbie Hancock

The 60 Second Assasin
When I pulled the trigger a few days ago, the thing that pushed me over the edge WAS IN FACT THAT I WAS HOPING ITS THE SAME CREATOR AS THE APOLLO.

I had an original first release. And it was okay. Bought the 50w bulb. And it improved performance. Then I had an issue and was my issue was handled with no issues. I then received a perfectly functioning 50w bulb version and it is a beast ever since.
I don’t use it every day because of the size, but it’s special to me. Hits like a champ and i love the look of it. And the “nuts and washers” cooling unit.... IT WORKS GREAT.

I love my RBT vapes as well, I’m fact I used the Apollo long tube with an Apollo cooling unit as a make shift “drydrotube”, and it’s amazing. Speaking of RBT, we can all agree his vapes are fantastic. Can the same be said about his individual customer service?? You can’t expect a genius inventor to also be a phenomenal Customer Service rep. These guys are genius, their brains are firing on a different frequency. I want his creation. I don’t see an issue at all.
 

Jacer

Well-Known Member
Man this thread turned into a shitshow realllll quick lmao. I for one am still very excited to see where this vape is headed, and see reviews from people who get theirs. I don't really care who made it as long as this vape works well, and the customer service is good for this. I don't see why any vape maker would want to come onto here after there have been like 3 pages of people trashing something they haven't even tried. Maybe wait until this thing is fully on the market and multiple people with good reputations have reviewed it, before immediately claiming it's going to be bad/the materials are gonna be bad/etc. Anyways, can't wait to see first impressions from those who have already ordered.
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
Man this thread turned into a shitshow realllll quick lmao. I for one am still very excited to see where this vape is headed, and see reviews from people who get theirs. I don't really care who made it as long as this vape works well, and the customer service is good for this. I don't see why any vape maker would want to come onto here after there have been like 3 pages of people trashing something they haven't even tried. Maybe wait until this thing is fully on the market and multiple people with good reputations have reviewed it, before immediately claiming it's going to be bad/the materials are gonna be bad/etc. Anyways, can't wait to see first impressions from those who have already ordered.
Couldn't agree more. Just couldn't think of the words. :leaf:
 
Zuhdj,
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Fat Freddy

FUCK CANCER TOO !

The more thought I've given this situation regarding the identity of the TinyMight maker, I've come to some basic questions and a few rather tentative answers. However, before I post my thoughts about "the answers", I would like to ask those of you who might be interested, to take a whack of your own at these questions first. Please, tell us all what you think!?

1. If you're a new vape maker from Finland who is trying to break in to the U.S. vaporizer market why would you decline to work with established and successful retailers and instead elect to work with a relatively inexperienced and unknown individual in the vaping industry? I'm aware of three larger retailers who approached TinyMight about handling his product but each of them left those brief conversations with the distinct impression that TM wasn't interested in working with them.

2. If you know that your product has created a great deal of buzz in the U.S. already, pretty much with little to no marketing effort, yet your anonymity has become a real sticking point for many of your would be customers, why would you not accept the numerous invitations to visit one or more of the vape forums, to reassure customers of your product, process and business principles?

3. When contacting TM via his posted email address, why does he answer all inquires to his identity with a statement that dodges the question regarding his actual name, by stating that the TM "is a new business"?

4. Most of us who've been around FC awhile know @stickstones and have a great deal of trust in his opinions on all-things-vaporizer. He believes, (after testing the TM for a few months) with a considerable degree of certainty it seems, that the maker is the "same guy" who made the Apollo, one @villekille2 . On the other hand, Khelik41 who has apparently had a TM unit of her own for some time, says, "Oh wow @stickstones I was not aware of that! I could have sworn they were two different individuals." Hmmmm? Why such disparity?

5. Why are there as many, who don't know the maker, so willing to passionately DEFEND him, as there are those who don't know him, so willing to passionately CRITICIZE him?

6. Do the FC admins have any sense of responsibility for protecting the members from potentially unscrupulous makers/vendors? If so, where does that start and what are its limitations? Or does it all just come down to caveat emptor?

7. Does the onus for initiating and developing transactional trust fall upon the seller, or the buyer? Or is it X percent sellers' and Y percent buyers'?

Thanks for your consideration of these questions!




.
 

muunch

hotboxing the cockpit
Public discussion of staff decisions are not allowed. Warning point issued.
The more thought I've given this situation regarding the identity of the TinyMight maker, I've come to some basic questions and a few rather tentative answers. However, before I post my thoughts about "the answers", I would like to ask those of you who might be interested, to take a whack of your own at these questions first. Please, tell us all what you think!?

1. If you're a new vape maker from Finland who is trying to break in to the U.S. vaporizer market why would you decline to work with established and successful retailers and instead elect to work with a relatively inexperienced and unknown individual in the vaping industry? I'm aware of three larger retailers who approached TinyMight about handling his product but each of them left those brief conversations with the distinct impression that TM wasn't interested in working with them.

2. If you know that your product has created a great deal of buzz in the U.S. already, pretty much with little to no marketing effort, yet your anonymity has become a real sticking point for many of your would be customers, why would you not accept the numerous invitations to visit one or more of the vape forums, to reassure customers of your product, process and business principles?

3. When contacting TM via his posted email address, why does he answer all inquires to his identity with a statement that dodges the question regarding his actual name, by stating that the TM "is a new business"?

4. Most of us who've been around FC awhile know @stickstones and have a great deal of trust in his opinions on all-things-vaporizer. He believes, (after testing the TM for a few months) with a considerable degree of certainty it seems, that the maker is the "same guy" who made the Apollo, one @villekille2 . On the other hand, Khelik41 who has apparently had a TM unit of her own for some time, says, "Oh wow @stickstones I was not aware of that! I could have sworn they were two different individuals." Hmmmm? Why such disparity?

5. Why are there as many, who don't know the maker, so willing to passionately DEFEND him, as there are those who don't know him, so willing to passionately CRITICIZE him?

6. Do the FC admins have any sense of responsibility for protecting the members from potentially unscrupulous makers/vendors? If so, where does that start and what are its limitations? Or does it all just come down to caveat emptor?

7. Does the onus for initiating and developing transactional trust fall upon the seller, or the buyer? Or is it X percent sellers' and Y percent buyers'?

Thanks for your consideration of these questions!




.

I would "like" this post but don't want to be chastised by the mods.

Can't wait to get a warning point for not even being inflammatory and simply expressing my opinion (and agreeing with a post that was also not particularly inflammatory, and actually contributed to the discussion...)

Imagine a vaporizer forum that isn't on life support, where the mods aren't power-tripping and can actually do something about the format/function of the website... oh wait - you don't have to imagine, it already exists...

Hey - if I'm going to get a fucking warning point, may as well make it worthwhile?

Wonder if this post will get censored? :spliff:
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
All I'm saying is just give him time to get everything straight and running smoothly before going after him. The vape wasn't even supposed to be public knowledge yet. He wasn't planning for this which may be partially his fault. And maybe he sucks. Who knows. But give him a chance to breathe before y'all drown him. You know what I mean?
 

Abysmal Vapor

Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
@Fat Freddy
Who says that the maker is trying to break on the US market ? His lack of advertising and unfinished site speak otherwise IMO.. also i havent heard such claims stated.
As mentioned this one one man show, How many vaporizers do you think a single guy can produce,you can ask the makers of TUBO,NOMAD or G43 why they dont need 3rd party sellers.. and prefer to keep it smalltime. As for choosing Khelek41girl for a partner,why not ... she is so charming and helpful ,maybe the guy prefers down to earth makers and creators then just souless re-sellers..,who cannot offer any support/repair for his product.
I think that you are really thinking that the US is the center of the world... ,the center of the world is a molten lava core.
Ville has participated in this forum since 2010 and has been active till the 2018. So he is actually better known to us than some of the people bashing. How could really know someone using alias at a forum?
Can you explain how not wanting to link different products together is malicious to the customers ? He really got to break some of the rules so there is something to defend us from.. He has not created another account trying to deceive people he is another guy ... Even some guys critisizing TM maker have bitten the tree once for posting out of multiple accounts praising products they earn from and bashing the competition and had a ban some time ago due to their socket pupeting ,but lets not get into details.
I dont think i can grasp your last question,but this purely to my limited english and being vaked like hell :)).
Comparing this guy to S&B waving their faces infort of the camera is a joke. They have approved certified products and are legends in the game ,also they dont have a representative at the forum to defend their honor ,so why do you expect that from any smalltime maker...

Cheers !
 
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Copacetic

Somewhere North of The Wall
The more thought I've given this situation regarding the identity of the TinyMight maker, I've come to some basic questions and a few rather tentative answers. However, before I post my thoughts about "the answers", I would like to ask those of you who might be interested, to take a whack of your own at these questions first. Please, tell us all what you think!?

1. If you're a new vape maker from Finland who is trying to break in to the U.S. vaporizer market why would you decline to work with established and successful retailers and instead elect to work with a relatively inexperienced and unknown individual in the vaping industry? I'm aware of three larger retailers who approached TinyMight about handling his product but each of them left those brief conversations with the distinct impression that TM wasn't interested in working with them.

2. If you know that your product has created a great deal of buzz in the U.S. already, pretty much with little to no marketing effort, yet your anonymity has become a real sticking point for many of your would be customers, why would you not accept the numerous invitations to visit one or more of the vape forums, to reassure customers of your product, process and business principles?

3. When contacting TM via his posted email address, why does he answer all inquires to his identity with a statement that dodges the question regarding his actual name, by stating that the TM "is a new business"?

4. Most of us who've been around FC awhile know @stickstones and have a great deal of trust in his opinions on all-things-vaporizer. He believes, (after testing the TM for a few months) with a considerable degree of certainty it seems, that the maker is the "same guy" who made the Apollo, one @villekille2 . On the other hand, Khelik41 who has apparently had a TM unit of her own for some time, says, "Oh wow @stickstones I was not aware of that! I could have sworn they were two different individuals." Hmmmm? Why such disparity?

5. Why are there as many, who don't know the maker, so willing to passionately DEFEND him, as there are those who don't know him, so willing to passionately CRITICIZE him?

6. Do the FC admins have any sense of responsibility for protecting the members from potentially unscrupulous makers/vendors? If so, where does that start and what are its limitations? Or does it all just come down to caveat emptor?

7. Does the onus for initiating and developing transactional trust fall upon the seller, or the buyer? Or is it X percent sellers' and Y percent buyers'?

Thanks for your consideration of these questions!




.
1:
There could be any number of reasons. Why speculate and invent nefarious motives?
Maybe he was reluctant to enter the US market due to import/export/legality reasons but thought a few sales through @khelek41girl might be as many as he could realistically manage to manufacture to start with.
There could be any number of legitamate reasons, I see no reason to assume malfeasance.
2:
He(or she) might simply be too busy to engage in this way, or be reluctant due to an aversion to 'the spotlight'.
They might be averse to criticism and be concerned about receiving such (this could be true of both deserved criticism and undeserved).
They might not feel they are compelled to answer ANY questions (especially true of those posed in a combative manner).
Again, legality could be a factor here, most of the world still has to 'keep their heads down' and those who now live in 'friendly' locations seem to forget this sometimes.
3:
Could be due to Apollo, but again LEGALITY......
4:
They are simply two different folk with two different sets of data to interpret with two different brains, why is it suspicious that they might come to different conclusions or make diffferent assumptions to one-another?
5:
I'd guess that some respondants feel that the criticism has been unfair and wish to express that sentiment.
As to those offering doubts and criticism, well, that is the lingua-franca of the Internet after-all.
6:
Well this is a question for the admins, but they've certainly shown concern for us all in the past (see Inhalator for example).
And 6:
....Where they draw that line is up to them, an I wouldn't like to speculate(any more than I am already!).
7:
Dont know the answer to this one as I think individuals will have differing stances.
My own is that both are involved, and that ratio is variable upon the situation.
I am unaware of dissatisfaction with @villekille2, it must have occured after I stopped following the Apollo thread so it seems unfair for me to come down on either side, especially as I havent seen any real evidence yet that both vapes are definitely made by the same person.
:2c:

EDIT: this looks like a VERY interesting vape BTW :clap:
 
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RastaBuddhaTao

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
All good questions as always @Fat Freddy

RBT has had to good fortune of working with several members of the KG Woodcrafts folks over the past few months. Not that my word means much around here but RBT has chosen to work with KG specifically given their brand mission, artistic devotion, and fair and ethical practices. Hey @khelek41girl I'm in line for this one ... I for one have faith in you and what you are working to do.

It's a tuff job being a maker... I am an introverted engineer with mental problems... and having CS in front of me is a must if history tells. All should consider any FC purchase as a high risk crowd fund... consider the money an investment in enabling the maker to see if he can make it... chances are he will not... so chances are you will never get a good working vape... but you contributed to a movement. Be part of the team and rather than ride ethical arm chair CEO. FC is small and what we do is weird and somewhat illegal still. Think of bigger picture of a passionate maker that has a business vision to encourage and develop lesser known makers to survive so they can do what they love. Some do what they do to purely make money... they have pretty www and lifestyle images and are at all the shows, the vapes are all dressed up in pretty packaging and their is some flashy social media event that burns through the marketing cash to build and release the pent up demand for the "In Stock"push. This is a low risk purchase as it is on the shelf ... grab that bad boy! If you want to roll the dice here then count your money lost and remain positive and encourage someone to do the impossible... drop your cash here.

Man, those early days of Zion were the best of RBT... a band of experts having fun together shakin out new tech. That's the vibe that should be on all these threads. FC is well know for having a bunch of crotchety old fucks fighting over nothing ... So, who are you? Are you up here or are you down? The mods are doing a remarkable job given their pay grade (x=0)and resources available to them. Maybe they should switch two strike rule and start cleaning out some of the obvious bad apples here? ...and yeh, I am stepping out in support of a good friend but have been chased off of FC by trolls and now have a rep to come here and wade through the toxicity that once was Zion love ... so, again, ask yourself, are you one of the dicks here that keeps getting warning points or are you here in support of makers... because I am sure the latter would just love it if the former would leave :)

Many hide behind an avatar and murder the reputation and lively hood of real people. How would you like if if you boss came in front of all your coworkers and said some of the shit that gets said here about you? The www has allowed for this shit to happen because it dont happen in the streets of Texas. You trolls are all cowards and have no fear of repercussion. shame on you all. (Acknowledge and accept a warning point for attacking the FC stereotype in hopes to help break it)

So I will end with if you slipped through the cracks at RBT in the past get in contact with Cole and I am sure he will make it right... If you have a problem with anyone go to them as Jesus instructs as if not you only commit social media murder which is known to be frowned upon by Jesus Pop.

Become a Political Media Atheist Today!
 

Siebter

Less soul, more mind
All should consider any FC purchase as a high risk crowd fund... consider the money an investment in enabling the maker to see if he can make it... chances are he will not... so chances are you will never get a good working vape... but you contributed to a movement.

Exactly – it's not wise to expect the same standards (functionality, customer service, availibilty...) from a one man show as we would expect from a big company. It's a whole different thing. We shouldn't buy such a device because we suffer from the greedy VAS virus which keeps us looking for the next best thing, but because we want to see a project get bigger. Look at Dynavap, which (I think) started here as well. It needed that spirit to become what is today.

It would be so cool if we could just wait for the things to come. This went public not even a week ago.
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
@Fat Freddy - I started a 'little project' earlier this year. I did exactly as people here seem to demand. And all I found was that people just get in the way. You talk to people -before- you develop your product. You incorporate what you learned and what you need. You cloister yourself until such time a prototype is ready for a very controlled quiet evaluation with knowledgeable people. Product and business development continue and last minute tweaks are discussed and implemented. A manufacturing plan is developed while a limited public Beta release is valuated. This is when the developer re-emerges and becomes public fodder til the masses have completed their beratement and praises. This campaign is crucial and this is where the TM is now... apparently a few beta units are out there and people are hungry for yet another portable vape #973.

I did go back an look at the Apollo and indeed, this has very similar design elements. How that 'experience' by the maker turned into a negative is beyond me. This can only be a good thing. People that lack experience will have much bigger problems than TM will on ramping up production. From that perspective, I find it a plus that this 'developer' has experience under his belt.

Unless people here kill this before it even gets started, I'd say that the TM is a real contender. I have my own reservations but I am willing to wait and discuss those with the developer if I ever have the chance.

But yes, at some point a 'spokesperson' for TM should launch their outreach campaign if their plans are to be a true manufacturer in this space. I consider what I started and what several here are doing as 'niche manufacturers' which will make highly customized devices but have a product vision of less than 1000 units for an entire life-cycle. The two differ primarily in price-point. Looking at the TM, it appears easily positioned to reach high volume production. At that point the artisan element is no longer a 'value'. Now the newly minted manufacturer has to decide if they will reduce the price-point to capture a greater audience. These things shake up or down very quickly compared to the pace of setting up manufacturing.

I'm all for giving this vape a chance. I am also all for a fair platform for the maker to join into the discussion. I don't know, and also don't care about the Apollo history. Again, if this is the same maker, which I suspect it is, he's already schooled in this rat-race. Part of that schooling is forum etiquette such as 'don't jump into a pit of vipers'.
 
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