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Tincture Questions

Discussion in 'Cooking with Cannabis' started by IamtheWiz, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. IamtheWiz

    IamtheWiz I’m the Wiz! And nobody beats me!

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Chicago Burbs
    Hello all,

    I have a few questions that Im sure are already answered here on the forums. However Im still a little confused on some of the info Im finding.

    A tiny bit of background - I just started vaping a few months ago. Im not a heavy user so Ive only been able to collect about 1gram worth of ABV. I was able to get myself a decent amount of shake though, about 1oz.

    My end goal is to get a sublingual method of dosing. So I went on google/youtube/grasscity/fc and so on, to find recipes or instructions on how to make a tincture. With so many different techniques Im interested in finding who can tell me which technique they have the most success with.

    So onto my couple of questions...

    1.

    I found this video...
    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_mfGwZkffnQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    The "chef" states that you do not need more than an hour or 2 of soaking your medication in alcohol for the extraction to take place. Even shorter if you use a higher proof.

    This info contradicts everything else that I have read. I have seen some people state you have to leave it for anywhere from 1 month to 6 months. So hearing this guy say a couple of hours (without additional heat) is sufficient was confusing.

    Can anyone confirm or deny that this method is effective for extracting the medication?

    2.

    Double boiling - I have found people that say to double boil it in a mason jar with the lid ON, then others that do it with the lid off. I would imagine that leaving the lid on would help retain some of the actives that are escaping into the air but I have no idea what Im talking about. I would also imagine leaving the lid on would make it safer as well without the open container so close to the stove.

    Also, how do you know when its done?

    3.

    Decarbing - I seem to find this is consistent. The meds need to be decarbed prior to doing anything with them. But wouldn't heating the mason jar in the double boiler accomplish this?


    4.

    Freezing the bud and the alcohol to limit the chlorophyl absorption?



    Anyway, sorry for the long post. I just can't seem to find a method that has consistent results. It isn't easy or cheap to get large amounts of meds where Im from so my concern is that Ill mess something up and waste all my herb.

    Can anyone please help me understand what the hell Im doing and maybe point me in the direction of a step by step process for this? Even if it means leaving it in a jar for a month... Im a patient person as long as the results are worth the wait.

    Thanks all!
    GenYHippie likes this.
  2. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    880
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Have only tried master wu's green dragon tek once, with results, albeit mixed...meaning the effects were present, but man did it taste like :puke:

    Just wanted to pop in and say I would not know how to help you any further, apart from taking what yu could find and start trying out things for yourself. I know messing up can be shitty, especially f your resources are small, but the results are al the more pleasing when you make these kind of things yourself ;)
    IamtheWiz and Bouldorado like this.
  3. Snappo

    Snappo Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!" Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,791
    Stick to what's been tried and true. If you want good Green Dragon, DECARB! Use the highest alch. proof you can find (151 & above). Do this and forget the rest of the BS you hear and find on the web: http://boards.cannabis.com/concentrates/82380-definitive-green-dragon-revised-updated-combined.html

    http://boards.cannabis.com/concentrates/58414-definitive-green-dragon-cannabis-tincture.html
    IamtheWiz and deadheadbill like this.
  4. HSIHP

    HSIHP Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    507
    I recently used the master wu's recipie (it's around here somewhere) for my first tincture experiment ever. I was blown away wth the results. I followed the directions to the t but I did let it cook about 3 mins longer as it took a long time to get up to temp.

    I do agree though, it tasted horrible. We offset this by putting a dropper full in a shit glass and fillied it with orange juice. We then refilled the glass with oj after taking the shot. There was a definite earthy taste for a small bit after taking the dose.

    I'll find the link to the recipie for you and I highly suggest trying it out.

    EDIT: better yet, here is the whole thread. Enjoy!:rockon:
    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/green-dragon-recipes-and-discussion.133/
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
    Snappo likes this.
  5. bagelbanger

    bagelbanger Active Member

    Messages:
    76
    When I first started vaping with a mflb I was able to save up a bit, maybe enough to fill a used cleaned glass standard sized spice jar up 3/4 of the way with abv. (Holds about 1-1.5 oz of spice) I would than fill it up with everclear alcohol and shake for about 30 secs and strain that with a small fine mesh tea strainer into a larger sized spice jar. (One that holds ~3.5oz). Would let that evaporate naturally for about 8 hours until evaped about 1/2 of what I started with and pour that into a 1oz amber colored jar that had an included eye dropper, like what you would get at a pharmacy or health food store. I would than take about a droppers worth into a fruit juice or boozy drink. Actually started to like the taste quite a bit after a while and would drop it directly under my tongue. FEEL THAT BURN!! A pretty mellow happy buzz for me but my friends would take about four droppers worth and it was ON!

    Anyway, it could be pretty potent and each batch was slightly different so the dosage needed to be upped or downed. A few friends really developed a liking to it and I'll hook them up every so often when I build up a stash. Make much bigger amounts now and freeze abv and everclear before shaking but routine is the same.

    Enjoy!
    Bouldorado and Snappo like this.
  6. spoutti

    spoutti Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Montreal
    Well, the best tip i would suggest is to try small amounts. I did 1l worth of abv/94% alcool and regret not going the butter/brownies way. Taste is so horrible + 94% alcool is expensive in canada.

    But Master's Wu gd recipie is effective.
  7. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09 Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    The alcohol tincture does taste pretty harsh especially with ABV. If you take that tincture and turn it into hard candy though.... it tastes damn fine and has no fat like brownies/cookies :D

    I also make a glycerine tincture that tastes like weed flavored honey - good stuff!!
  8. Bouldorado

    Bouldorado Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    931
    Location:
    CO
    I totally agree w/ Lo about glycerine tincture; taste-wise, alcohol tinctures are not even comparable, plus you get the burn.

    As for the extraction I recommend following this method: http://skunkpharmresearch.com/qwet-extraction/

    That's the go-to guide for many people who extract oil w/ QWET. If you want tasty glycerine tincture, simply follow that guide and mix the resulting oil into some food grade (should be labeled USP) glycerine. However if you want an alcohol base and aren't concerned with taste, follow the guide but extend the soak time (double it or so). Now instead of evaporating all the alcohol, just concentrate it down to ~75ml. In my experience, 1gram hash/1 fluid oz everclear is a good potency. If it's decent quality, the oz of shake will probably yield 10-15% of it's dry weight in hash.
    Snappo and Lo like this.
  9. IamtheWiz

    IamtheWiz I’m the Wiz! And nobody beats me!

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Chicago Burbs
    Thanks to all for the replies.

    I ended up trying Master Wu's recipe for the most part. I used some trim instead of high quality bud but the end result wasn't very potent so I went ahead and reduced it more. The effects are still not what I expected, not noticeably strong but Im still getting used to it.

    I agree with the statements about the alcohol taste but I can tolerate it in OJ like HSIHP mentioned below. I can't take it under the tongue though... WOW, burn baby burn!!




    Yeah Ive been reading through that thread quite a bit. Although it still seems like the success rate isn't very high.



    This is very interesting. I hadn't found this method yet so Ill give it a read thanks.



    I also found a very interesting thread on grass city from someone that does a frozen process until reduction time. I may try this method next when I get some more bud.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/incredib...hread-try-youll-like.html/page-52?hl=tincture
  10. jojo0420

    jojo0420 Cloud Chaser

    Messages:
    48
    I've been a longtime follower of Sam's tincture recipe, it's an easy process that yields great results in my experience.
    The key to a good quick extraction is 190 proof alcohol. Or the rough equilvelent.
    I can't count the number of batches of this tincture I've made at this point, including ABV (my ABV recipe is in the thread.)
    Freezing helps break down the trichs, amazing process.
    IamtheWiz likes this.
  11. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

    Messages:
    981
    I gotta lot to learn... sub'd
    IamtheWiz and Lo like this.
  12. IamtheWiz

    IamtheWiz I’m the Wiz! And nobody beats me!

    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Chicago Burbs
    I like the looks of this frozen process a lot. I have 7g of some good meds in a mason jar just waiting. I need to run over to Binny's to get me some Everclear. Ill let you guys know how it goes.

    On another note, after my last batch of GD I was a little disappointed. The effect wasn't what I was hoping for. It was pleasant but not quite what I wanted. I gave a couple of dropper bottles to some friends and one of my buddies told me he loves it. Well he is able to put 2 full droppers under his tongue and he said its great. I can barely keep this stuff under my tongue for more than 10 seconds before it starts to burn my mouth. So Im thinking about doing a solvent transfer with this stuff and trying to get it into some Glycerin. So far, I can't get enough of this GD in my mouth to feel any lasting effects. I tried 2 droppers in some OJ and that just didn't do it either. So I guess we are back to square 1.
    jojo0420 likes this.
  13. jojo0420

    jojo0420 Cloud Chaser

    Messages:
    48
    There are a couple important things that can't be overemphasized: decarb, if you are going to eat/drink the tincture make sure you decarb thoroughly; and high proof alcohol, 190 proof is preferred but 151 proof is the minimum I'd recommend. If you have to go the 151 proof route steer clear of rum, too much sugar.
    This is especially important if you want to use it in a transfer, poor results will come from using less than 190 proof.
  14. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

    Messages:
    981
    I have seen the term in so many different thread, but have not found much defining it... would you please explain some on decarbing?

    What does it mean?
    How does one do it?
    What are the benefits of decarbing vs. not decarbing?
  15. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09 Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Decarbing is heating the herb to activate the goodies before using in a recipe that doesn't require further cooking.

    If using fresh herb in a recipe that will be baked (brownies, cookies, firecrackers) the herb will activate during cooking so decarb is not necessary.

    If making a tincture with fresh herb you would need to decarb (heat) the herb first so the goodies will be activated.

    If using ABV (already been vaped) the goodies are already active from heating during vaporization so no decarb is necessary.

    There are many methods to decarbing depending on usage...for most part I use ABV or am baking so don't need to decarb. If I have to decarb I place herb in oven for a bit. Times/temps vary depending on who you ask but def. needs to be BELOW vaporization temps. Time also depends on how much herb you are cooking. For small amounts like 1/4-1/2 oz. I place ground herb in a sealed foil packet for about 20 mins @ around 300F. though there are tons of other suggestions for times/temps. No set rule.

    If you skim around the cooking section here you'll find a few methods mentioned.

    Oh and decarb stands for decarboxylation.
    Sam1409 likes this.
  16. FlyingLow

    FlyingLow Team NO SLEEP!

    Messages:
    981
    Brilliant and thorough response, thank you for taking the time to help clear that up for me:D
    Lo likes this.
  17. Sam1409

    Sam1409 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    Hey Lo,
    Can you post a recipe that works?
    There are so many variation for tincture. How do I know which one to follow?
    Is GD still the the only one? How do I alter it with ABV?
    How about this one?
    Is it safe for the eyedropper to be stuck in alcohol for a long time?
    How long can I store tincture and does it matter where I store it?
    How long can I store ABV and does it matter where I store it?
    Isn't AVB ready to consume as is? If so, are there any alterations required when cooking with it i.e. lower temperature when backing brownies?

    Thanks!
  18. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09 Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Tincture is really easy, I don't use a recipe per say. I put ABV in a mason jar and put enough Everclear to thoroughly wet/cover the ABV and a bit over the ABV to leave room for stirring. I'm mostly trying to pack as much of a punch with the tincture as possible.

    I let it sit for a few hours stirring here/there. I strain with a nylon tea strainer basket to avoid loss seen when using coffee filters or cheesecloth. I then bottle it in amber glass bottles with no eyedroppers, straight screw lid - air tight. I do not use a blender or anything to make particles any finer than they are already...too fine and no way to strain well. If using fresh herb I'd do the same process but I'd decarb the herb in oven first (or hit it in my EVO at low setting :D ) to activate before making the tincture.

    I think a glass eyedropper sitting in alcohol is fine as long as alcohol doesn't get in the rubber end but I prefer to use bottles without them. I would not use plastic droppers personally.

    I store tincture in dark cabinet in dark glass in a cool area. I've had some sit for a few months and be fine but mine usually doesn't sit too long as I reduce tincture and then turn into hard candies (which store nicely in sealed mason jars for months).

    I store ABV also in sealed mason jars, dark cabinet and have stored some for many months with no issues.

    ABV is absolutely ready to consume as is, you can eat if you can stomach. You don't need to alter recipes for brownies or whatnot when using ABV but judging dose/amount is tough because no two batches of ABV will be the same. Test each batch to gauge strength/tolerance is my motto.

    If you are new to playing with edibles/ABV the easiest route is to make some firecrackers though I prefer mine with fresh herb as opposed to ABV. There are recipes here for firecrackers. A darn fine snack/edible but if you are prone to munchies I'd make a packet of medicated ones and a packet of non-medicated ones lol.

    Good luck.
    Snappo and Sam1409 like this.
  19. Sam1409

    Sam1409 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    Thanks Lo!
    So no heating, vaporizing off the alcohol or standing is necessary.
    What's the dosage from the final product?
    What's the significant of holding the stuff under the tongue?
    What's the candies recipe?
    I'll search for the firecrackers recipe.
    Thank you so much!
  20. Sam1409

    Sam1409 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    I think I've found all the info here.
    Lo likes this.
  21. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09 Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    Sweet, you are on you way then ;)

    Here is the old thread from when we started making & tweaking the hard candies around here. Be sure to read the whole thread as original recipe was evolved a bit. I now use about 4-5 oz. of tincture which I reduce on stove like a sauce until it gets to about 1 oz. then I add that to a batch of hard candies. Now my candies are seriously potent and one too many, you'll be sorry lol.


    http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/candies.2560/

    Have fun and test each batch of tincture, candies, etc. properly as every batch will vary.
  22. Sam1409

    Sam1409 New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Calgary, Canada
    "The purpose of the simmering is to heat the alcohol mixture to improve extraction rates and efficiencies. Heating during extraction increases the motion of the molecules (basic physics/chemistry) and drastically decreases extraction times. The boiling point of pure ethanol is 173°F (78°C). We will use the water bath to heat the rum/cannabis mixture to just below the boiling point of ethanol."
    source: http://www.rollitup.org/cooking-cannabis/125137-alcohol-tincture.html

    So, just to make certain. Please correct me if I got it wrong:
    The simmering part of the process, as described above, is negligible. Standing time is not necessary either (2 weeks). A couple of hours will do.

    When backing fresh bud, what would be the temperature and the time of backing? The "original" recipe calls for 325°F for 4-5 minutes but I've seen other views too.

    Thanks!
  23. Lo

    Lo Combustion free since '09 Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,838
    Location:
    Earth
    I do not use heat for extraction and my tinctures turn out very potent. I let ABV soak for just a few hours before straining.

    For fresh bud rather than let it sit for weeks I'd debarb in oven:

    For small amounts like 1/4-1/2 oz. I place ground herb in a sealed foil packet for about 20 mins @ around 300F. though there are tons of other suggestions for times/temps. No set rule except need to stay well under vaporization temps.
  24. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

    Messages:
    733
    Location:
    Limbo
  25. GenYHippie

    GenYHippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    492
    Location:
    Southern California
    Replying to subscribe, great topic thanks :). Just to chime in on taste i havent had any but many sellers add honey to their alcohol tinc to help. No idea of proportions but it seems logical

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