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Discontinued ThermoVape Evolution

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by SameOldTim, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. Farid

    Farid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    701
    I too was in need of a UFO to use with my HP EVO. I ended up making a frankenvape by using a DART drip piece with the dabber cut and sanded off. I also added some silicon tubing to my mouthpiece, cause otherwise my lips were at risk of burning when using the DART mouthpieces.
     
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  2. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Hey FCers. For those who still have this unit around but just collecting dust. I have discovered a method to overcome the hard part of performing your own re-build.
    Performing this rebuild by DIY has always being left to experienced perks to perform do to being able to attach a new element wire to the center post of the 510 connector. The original method was to use a collar to pressure fit the wire to a small post on the 510 post. This piece was wire gauge dependent as well as a one shot.
    The way I discovered is not gauge dependent and can be done over and over.
    What's needed is a new center post which are common but one with a hole through the center is needed. The element will go through this hole upon assembly. The second ingredient is a wedge of some sort. I used an IC socket holder and cut a single pin out of the socket. Cut the pin portion off so it can be tapped into the hole of the 510 connector.

    Here we have the unit disassembled. The center of the 510 connector pushes out the bottom. It has a high temperature hunk of white teflon which insulates it from ground. The insulator is already on the new post which has a hole in it. The OEM post is to the right.

    [​IMG]

    The tube will pop out from the brass portion by having the 510 screwed into a sturdy device. I used a coil winding jig. Use some needle nose pliers to pry up between the holding device and tube portion of EVO. Pry evenly and slowly.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    OK, so throwing in a coil can be done quite easily. Re-doing is now even easier as just need to pop out the little pin wedgy. Many different element wire can be experimented with now.
    My choice is Ti wire as can be use with tons of Temperature Controlled Ecig mods. Yep, that's correct, no more need for the OEM handles with no control.
    Let the fun begin.

    Here's my first go for this one.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    It's .25 ohm of AWG22 Ti. Tested on my TC units fine.
    Not sure if the ceramic is needed or not. Left room for it anyway. Otherwise, tight fit for sure. Took playing with to get working right. Used a ceramic pick to poke and bend until short free. I was being picky let's say. Could be done with more clearance. But where's the fun there....

    For me, this is like a mini DIY Bulli Vaporizer which I have worked on since before this EVO was even released...LOL

    Enjoy, Pipes
     
  3. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    temp controlled evolution? holy crap pipes that is great!

    mine is long gone, but this is good shit.
     
  4. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,497
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Fun stuff indeed. I'd be concerned that such an element would 'swim' under heating and hit the wall (shorting out part of the element, overpowering the rest?). The ceramic core was to counter that in the original that had more mechanical stability to start, but if it's working it's working.

    The 'clamp ring' was a one shot deal, but so is the body tube. They were not reused by TV since pressing them in the first time stretches them (you didn't need an arbor press to reassemble? It took one to assemble it the first time. Again, if it's working.......

    That's not what I see. I see a rebuilt Evolution, still powered by the original (unregulated) source.....that is no temperature control, still the same 'open loop' system needing the user to control things.

    Nor, I think, will temperature control work with Evolution anymore than it would with T1 or Cera. The whole 'thermal core' design has the source very much hotter than the load (maybe 1300C against 200).

    OF
     
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  5. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    i assumed when pipes said it tested on his TC devices fine that it meant worked regarding TC. my bad.
     
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  6. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Actually, yes there is temperature control. In fact it's a closed loop feedback system. Feedback comes from, the device continuously measuring the resistance of the element. The "TC" Mods these days are coming out fast and furious. (and cheap) The hunt to find the "best for the job" is the new goal.

    [​IMG]

    Re-fitting the main sleeve back on has not been a problem. I just use the wooden handle of a screwdriver to tap back down. Have done multiple times.
    The new technique for attaching the positive post is the key to open the door to folks to DIY. Whether just a rebuild or a TC build.
    There is heat losses as you say OF, but not as high as 1200. In fact the working temp is below visible glowing. More like 600 F. The more element you can fit in the lower this required temp drops. This has been my findings with the Bull anyway. For thin elements, the working temp is much higher.
    Initially, my Bull TC build required 600F to achieve a consistent vape production. Once I crammed in as much element as would fit, and changed the screen to a normal stainless steel one, the loss dropped to around 100F, meaning the working oven temp dropped to 450F.

    Funny, somehow I knew @2clicker would jump on this....LOL
     
  7. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,497
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Yes, but that's not load temperature control, it's source temperature control like ESV does. Or Herbal Aire. HA takes the idea to extremes with LOTS of surface area and working temperature basically the source temperature.

    The thermal core as designed is not only fairly stable temperature wise on it's own (since it has positive temperature coefficient on the metal and strong IR production) but provides that huge reservoir of heat (energy in calories, not temperature in degrees) available that lets you take those heroic hits once you get a solid test puff on step 2. I strongly suspect those things aren't happening anymore and have been replaced by a more conventional mode (like ESV or HA), not that that's not useful too.

    While that 'glowing coil and walls' are not necessary, they are I think the key idea in T1, Evolution and Cera LL. There's much less IR in play at 600F with a 200F delta than starting at 1200F with an 800 degree delta. Electrical efficiency should favor your scheme, I suspect by a fair bit?

    I think tinkering in the area of small convection herb vapes is great, Grasshopper is doing that as well I guess, but wouldn't it be better to start with a fresh body more friendly to the heater experiment?

    OF
     
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  8. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Exactly what I was thinking with the GH.
    Yes, my Bulli experiments have been going on for quite some time. Incorporating the TC portion has been a breakthrough. At least IMO.
    The Bull has been the perfect platform for these experiments.
    Life is grand.
     
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  9. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    lol i cant help myself. the TC mod explosion has been crazy to watch. looking forward to what is next. my evic VTC has been great for me. personally prefer Ti wire, but indont ecig. just dabs.

    anyway, i have wondered many times what kind of modification would be required to set up an standard dripper to vape flowers decently with an adjustable temp device. or maybe a tank.

    i wish i still had my Evos. i actually had two of them. one was the later dispatched version with a "hotter" core.
     
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  10. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    I have a EVic VTC mini on order myself. Like you say, there are so many and getting the options for this task is a learning process. So far I figured out that wattage is not important. 50 watts or 40 Joules is plenty. I found I actually had to throttle back my D2 from 50 - 40 Joules or I'd get a "dry wick" warning which leads to shutting down if cooling isn't detected. Made you have to be continuously pulling while on. Kinda sounds like the "flow detector" folks talk of in the GH thread. Really think this the the methodology they are using. But that's just speculation.
    Second big issue is being able to lock the "cold" ohms reading. What happens is if you have to change batteries med stream of a session, the unit takes a new reading and with this use, the coil will still be hot. A valid reading is a huge deal as that's it's reference for calculating the temperature. Most newer TC mods seem to have this.
    Another is to have a easily readable display which you can have the temperature as the main "on top" menu. Some units look like this is a selectable feature and other have that buried in submenus. Meaning it takes both hands to change mid session.
    All this stuff and likely more are things to look for when looking for a TC mod for pushing devices like the EVO or Bull.
    Fastech is good and also found a new one, efun.top which is where I have ordered my Evic from. Fastech kept postponing the shipping date. efun uses DHL but takes longer to ship out the door. Price works out within a buck.
    Cheers.
     
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  11. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    you are going to love the VTC. it blows the doors off the D2 IMO.

    and yes i hardly ever go over 30 watts.
     
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  12. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,533
    Hi Pipes, did your mod is it possible both with a 6v and 3.7v core....?

    I own a 6v...did your mod make it to work faster than the original using less battery or is it only a way to rebuild and to get some temperature control?
     
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  13. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,126
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Hey PPN, you would be gutting the unit so either unit will work. The heat is virtually instant. Basically, would follow the same methodology as the Bulli thread. There is really no wasted power so battery life is very good. Only played with as an experiment with good results and never fined tune it to the extent I did with the Bull. And tends to keep on improving. :tup:
     
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  14. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,533
    Since somedays I'm enjoying again my Evolution paired with a VV/VW battery I set at 7v with greater performances than my old heavy used pair of Tenergys. The extra heat can "burn" the bottom of the load so I put a domed sreen as a spacer, replaced the mp with a GonG from a mflb tubing fixed with a piece of silicone tubing and with a screen in (between the gong and theEvolution cartridge).

    The main cons is the unit becomes very, very hot after 3x30s heating cycles and you need to wait until it cool down to prevent to overheat the battery. An insulator between the Evolution and the battery would fix that but the only one I ownare made for the sr-74 and not fit the 510 threading on both side. I get a sort of adaptater which comes with my Movkin Disguiser, it will work but make the unit so tall...

    But I'm impressed (again) how it works well, not sure how high in voltage I can run it without to break....
     
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  15. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,533
    Still own my old Evolution Thermovape core (my first portable vaporizer!) and use it now paired with a mod between 27-30w and vapor production is pretty fast, flavorfull and thick (even faster than the GH and performances are pretty similar). It's a unmodified 6v core except for the add of a domed screen to get the load not too close of the heater to avoid burning accents.

    It's a shame Thermovape is not running anymore, they was a sort of precurssor of the mainstream vaporizer technology using a 510 connexion which seems to become the norm since all the features a mod offer.

    I'm impressed by this atty longlife, it seems to be built like a tank. Even if I still not use it on a regular basis the Evo seens a lot of use by the past and will still be used until it die.

    Hmmm... after this post I'll give it another run with a blend of pretty moisturized AfganixSenegalese and Critical+ which was working perfectly in the MiniVap just before my post!
     
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  16. VAPEHUNTER

    VAPEHUNTER Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    LAS VEGOOSE, NV
    Oh man, you just convinced me to dig out one of my Evolutions to try with my mod.
    About how high up do you put the screen? (Pics)

    EDIT: Ok, I just got my Evo cleaned up and ready to go.
    I’m thinking about starting around around 18W, with no screen and move my way up.

    I wonder how the revolution would work with a mod box?

    EDIT 2: 28W with a domed screen is perfect. 3-4 Great flavor hits and the ABV is nicely brown.
    I’m gonna keep testing. Thanks @PPN for broadening my horizons.
    I’m still wondering about the Revolution...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  17. PPN

    PPN Fleurs&Vapeur

    Messages:
    3,533
    Yes, I'm impressed how this "old" tek is working well and it's a lot less hassle than with the original batteries+tube but don't forget to use a heat sink to don't overheat your mod.

    For the Revolution I remenber it was working best with very, very clean concentrate and don't think it might the best bet for rosin. And the side loaded version is a pia to load, if I only had a dart version.... and more experience with extractions I would got more usage out my Rev although I broke it using bad quality concentrates.
     
  18. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,497
    Location:
    Left Coast
    It should be fine in either VW or VV mode. TCR ('temperature control) mode won't since the alloy used is specifically selected to not have a significant TCR (why it works so well with the factory battery pack).

    Very neat device for sure, I enjoy mine from time to time. T1 and Cera are as well, on the same theme, true convection. IMO it's too bad they decided to reinvent the connector, making a 'non 510 standard' that nobody wanted. But they needed more power and wanted a stronger base. We know now that 510 bases can handle the needed power, and more.

    The technology it 'out there' still.......if only some....

    OF
     
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  19. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,777
    it's still the best tasting portable concentrate vape I've used.
     
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  20. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,497
    Location:
    Left Coast
    You might wonder over to the Devine Tribe thread? While the V2.5 and V3 are very impressive, the new Quartz Quest is amazing IMO. No reservoir as with TV, you load for a session (say six hits??), but since you clean (very quickly and easily) the glass every time what comes out is exactly what you put in that time.

    And the price is right.

    OF
     
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  21. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,777
    I was reading about that one. I’m using the Sai now, but I might check out the quartz quest. I like the idea of dispensing with a coil, which is one reason I like the ThermoVape and cera so much.
     
    OF likes this.
  22. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,497
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Exactly so. Only (clean) glass contacts the goods.

    OF
     
  23. fogbank

    fogbank Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    251
    Seeing new posts in this thread has piqued my curiosity.

    I own 3 Evolution "carts". I just dug them out of storage, and the first thing I realized is that I'm not really sure how they differ. When I was testing them (years ago) I made a little chart of how they performed (or failed to perform) with different Thermovape power sources. On my chart I identified the 3 varieties:

    SV (standard voltage)
    SV/HP (standard voltage,high-performance)
    LV/HP (low voltage, high-performance)

    Using the Thermovape AC adaptor, the SV and LV/HP appeared to heat normally while the SV/HP only got slightly warm.

    Using a 17670 battery the SV/HP and LV/HP appeared to heat normally while the SV did not heat at all.

    Using the LiFePO4 batteries the SV and LV/HP appeared to heat normally while the SV/HP "superheated" and combusted the herb almost instantaneously, every time.

    These were my notes from several years ago.

    The only physical difference I can see between them is the one that I believe is the LV/HP has a hole in the base of 510 connector. The SV and SV/HP units have identical appearances.

    Does anyone recall whether the LV/HP version had a hold in the base of the 510 connector?

    Also I am curious about the possibility of trying these carts with a commercially available battery with a 510 connector. I don't currently own a 510 battery (I use a Pax Era for oils), and I don't know a lot about them.

    Would it be possible to power these carts with a commercially available 510 battery? If so, could someone recommend one that I might try? And more importantly, would it be safe to try?

    I see that @VAPEHUNTER reported good results with "28W with a domed screen", but I don't know how I would obtain something like that.

    I remember at the time I was testing them that none of the combinations of cart and power source really worked well for me. I would occasionally get a good hit of vapor, but more often not (not counting the combination that combusted every time).
     
    OF likes this.
  24. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,497
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Assuming you really meant 'hole' not 'hold' (hey, they both pass spell check.....) the answer is 'it doesn't matter'. While it was at first just confusing, carts with "L" on them were for single cell (3.6 Volts nominal) rather than 'standard' which was blank and meant for 6 Volts (from two cells in the mod at 3.0 each).

    Than all sorts of customs came out with no identifying markings. You seem to have several?

    Yes, you can use any of many mods that allow VV use in the 30 Watt plus range. VW should work, but I never tried it. Avoid any TCR of similar 'temperature setting' since the elements used don't exhibit resistance shift needed for that. Remember, you need a top end 18650 to supply all that power, pick carefully. Currently about the best cell for this is the Sony 18650VTVC5A (the VTV5, without the A, being a good 'runner up'). Stick with Sony, Panasonic, LG or Samsung. They are the only real makers out there (Sanyo is on that list, but they are Panasonics really).

    Mods include a lot of the popular one. Looking around I see IStick Pico, eVic mini in several versions, RX75 (a personal favorite), eVic Promo mini, Cuboid, Dual. Any of them should work fine. I use them on TV products when I can rather than the original supplies. You should find one for $30 to $40 (try Fastech), the Sony VTC5A will add ten bucks or so.

    You'll have to fish out setting for Voltage (or power if you go that way), but that's not hard, really. Start low and walk it up.

    Good luck, worth getting going IMO.

    OF
     
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  25. fogbank

    fogbank Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    251
    Yes I meant "hole" :)

    Thanks for the very useful info. You've given me a lot to start researching.

    I found a packing list for one of my TET orders and noticed that two of the Evo cores (SV/HP and LV/HP) were in fact sold as "beta" products. I also have a SV/HP T1 core (also beta) floating around.

    I noticed that all of the mods you listed were "VW" and not "VV". I will probably end up trying one and seeing how it works with the 3 Evo cores.
     
    OF likes this.

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