Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

Hey Noah,

Is it possible to use E-Juice in the oil cartridge if you only vape it occasionally? I like to vape the no nic version, but not enough to justify buying a cartridge specifically for it.

I'm no expert but I remember and quoted a member Lo from another thread http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vaping-vegetable-glycerin.3809/#post-161123 "Veg glycerin is used in ecigs and at low temps with ecig atomizers it is suspected to be safe for inhalation. If you get VG up too high in temp it produces acrolein which is toxic and not something you want to mess with." I'm assuming the ejuice cart will be a lower temp than the essential oil cart.

Hmm that's too bad...I just can't justify another $100 for occasional use.

Just a word in terms of general delivery and time of onset & effectiveness:

OK: Oral Consumption (undergoes first pass metabolism where the liver renders some metabolites water soluble so they can be passed through your kidneys and be evacuated in your urine). Slow onset of action.

Good: Mucosal (good because it largely bypasses most first pass metabolism by the liver) and absorbs directly into the capillary bed in the mucosal membranes. The time to onset is faster then with oral consumption. However it still takes some time for difusion and osmosis to transfer the ative metabolite through the mucosal membrane. So the 5-10 minutes you mention, is that time.

Better: Pulmonary. Bypasse first pass metabolism and delivers small molecules to the pulmonary bed (a network of capillaries that function primarily in the exchange of CO2 and O2). The pulmonary bed is often described as having a surface are roughly that of a tennis curt. It is the surface area of the capilliary bed, and thy the physiologic ability for volotile compounds to pass trough to the blood strwa rapidly, that make the onset of action of inhaleable medications so rapid. Second only to IV delivery.

Best: IV immediate direct delivery to the blood stream. 100% bioavailability. the gold standard of drug dosing.

So all methods work, and in general dosing would be reduced as the effectiveness of the method was increased, with the same resulting final bioavailability fo the desired compound.

Hope that is helpful.

Cheers,

Noah

Wow I would be scared to do ejuice just for that reason. That is strange to me that it is toxic at higher temps. They are not with the user and it can happen. This is not about TET just ejuice and the collective you that makes them. That is scary to me.

Ok so now TET how do you accomplish getting the temps to stay low in the ejuice cart? That will be interesting to know.

Noah, if you don't mind, what was your profession before making vapes? You may still be in that profession but you have such a grasp on science and I was a science major and get lost. Even though I know the body well, chem was not my strong suit.

I think he is a Dr.

Several good points there. My concern, perhaps not well stated, is I fear discouraging honest questions. In answering them (or not) we should be mindful of the pitfalls of running off track.

And yes this can cause problems for moderators, not a good thing, but I'm grateful for that service to us all. It makes this keen exchange of ideas and information possible.

Tim, of course, retains his HUGE white hat.

OF

"good because it largely bypasses most first ass metabolism by the liver"

Like. This is why we need longer edit times... (EDIT: Ah maybe they've been increased?)

Great info though, good to know vaping is up there with the serious stuff...

Yes. However you will want to clean the cartridge. Mixing glycerol and EO will give poor result. So just use one or the other. For occasional glycerol vaporization the EO cartridge is functional similar enough to deliver satisfying results. However die hard glycerol vaporist should get the dedicated cart as it will work better. A EO cart is 85% the performance with glycerol as a VG. A VG cart will give 75% the performance for EO.

They will not work together, mixing EO and VG does not work that well. The VG cools the core too much to make good oil vapor, and the oil clogs the core to much to allow for even VG vaporization.

So for occasional VG use, cleaning and then using your Cera EO is not a problem and I would not drop $100 bucks without trying it for yourself.

If you are serious about VG vaporization (as I am, it is how I stopped smoking), then spring for the VG cart, as the die hards will appreciate the extra performance. The coils are different, they are tuned differently. It is the flexibility fo the Cera interms of warm-up, etc. that allow this to work.

Sure thing. I just wanted to state company forum policy. We have our "rules" too, and being part of an open, dynamic, free dialog about vaporization is a core value. Tim is representing our company, and all of us who work here, and he does an exceptional job. I just want to make sure we are letting you guys determine what the limits are. Not our business, we just make vaporizers and our very glad to be a part of the conversation. Thank you.

Cheers,

Noah

Love it.

How do you post a pic from my files
. And post it here?

I need to see an eliquids video too. Started out with the LL then saw eo video. A couple emails with zeki and it's added to my order.
All that's left to add is the vg cart. Gonna be real hard to convince my wife I need another e-cig so make it a real good video. I'm gonna need it for my defense

Bart, I think the carts look the same. Hide one...the wife will never know

host it (upload) it to a site such as oh say imageshack.us and then find the direct link address which should start with http://www end in an .jpg or .jpeg. copy and past that link into the box that pops up when you click the little tree icon 4 over from the left that you see when your typing a message. Then again do we really want to see what image your going to post?

Alright then I can try that I guess what a hassle lol

So when making oils I gues thickness isn't a issue then melt and medicate quick and easy fast and furious lol


mod note: Please use the edit button to avoid back to back posting.

If this is a topic of interest, other forums dedicated to e-cigs, such as ecf have covered this in great detail. The concern for the production for acrolein from glycerol degradation has been a subject of active debate in the e-cig comunity for many years.

This process is not happening in any of our atomizers or cartridges. I do not type well enough to go into too much detail but the general concept of why this does not occur in our devices is simple (I am not saying it occurs in other carts, I just do not make them, test them, or own the IP, so I will not speak to those products).

First, know the production of acrolein is not subtle. It smells as if there were just a grease fire, pungent, obvious, and unpleasant. You WOULD notice.

Second, although glycerol will degrade to acrolein at 280 degrees C or 536 degrees F. That number can be deceiving. It is the direct application of temperature to glycerol in a controlled way, heating the mass to that temperature, while stabilizing the glycerol to prevent evaporation prior to the degradation event resulting in the acrolein as a byproduct/product. You have to prevent/avoid/mitigate the glycerol becoming a vapor (evaporating) at lower temperatures in order to produce acrolein from glycerol. What do I mean by this? Well glycerol is unstable at temperatures at or above 220 C or 428 F. So if you want to produce acrolein the glycerol must be stabilized (this is a big field as the stabilization glycerol at high (>220 C = 428 F) temperature is used in the production a lot of stuff, from fuel to food, so I am not going to cover it).

So in order to generate acrolein from glycerol, other steps must be taken, other then just exposing the glycerol to 280 degrees C or 536 degrees F. Why? Because it is unstable at temperatures below that, meaning that in an uncontrolled, open system, glycerol will evaporate before degrading.

Our cartridges are not capable of containing, and stabilizing the glycerol in a way that would allow us to produce acrolein.

However we cannot produce acrolein out of our cartridge. It is not the correct system, it i neither closed, nor controlled.

Also, just to mention, if we could make a device that produced acrolein, we would, and we would try and sell or license that technology as acrolein is a valuable industrial precursor that is challenging to produce. So if our patented technology was able to produce acrolein then we would explore that field as it would be another way we would use our technology to generate revenue. We would then use that money to build the Cera Mini in 6 months, rather then 12 months from now. However we are inthe vapor producing business, and not the acrolein producing business. Probably more money in acrolein as it is very popular ingredient in expensive biocidal agents.

That is part of our patented technology, and years of experience building cartridges. We are very proud, that still to this day, we are the only manufacture of a commercially available e-cig atomizer that is 100% made in the USA and 100% an American invention, all other high production atomizers come from China and our a different technology. I am not sure that I can explain this without a power point presentation and a half an hour, it is actually more complex then it may seem.

The proof is in the vapor, the vapor should be the right temp, and delicious, and for VG we think that is just mildly warm. If your VG vpor tastes great, qualitavley you can assume there is no way acrolein is in their, as you would smell and tase it, even in small amounts as it is VERY pungent.

I have worked for the last decade in human medicine, new technology development, and co-inventing, co-developing, and manufacturing harm reduction devices to allow people more options, for the use of non-combustion vaporization, as an alternative to smoking.


I have a Medical Doctorate and I am a physician. I also have a Bachelor of Science Degree in Biochemistry, a Bachelor of Science Degree in Molecular and Cell Biology, and a Bachelor of Science Degree in Health Sciences/Pre-medical studies (although I still cannot type or spell).

My lifelong best friend and business partner is the other half of this effort, he is a Nuclear Engineer by training. Together we have multiple (>15) approved patents, and patents pending on vaporizer technology. We both have committed ourselves to the work of building vaporizers, and hoping we can play a role in helping people use vaporizers to never smoke again.

My mother died of lung cancer in 2007, she is the original inspiration for this effort. Her death, and my knowing how hard she tried to quit smoking, is the reason that I am building vaporizers, and not in a hospital taking care of patients. My personal goal is to build the vaporizer I wish I could of handed my mother, in time for her to have quit smoking, and lived.

Hope that is helpful.

Cheers,

Noah

I have extreme q, iolite, plenty, vapor genie,vapir one, solo, gpen, my favorite is my vapexhale now in waiting for a portable vape(cera) I believe will be in a league of its own. There all different all work some well some not as well but I'm always looking for the next best thing I hope I found it.

Equally i almost wasnt interested(enough to spend $400) but they sucked me in for a pre-order early this week. I sold it to the wife as an advanced E-Cig. I tried quitting before with cheap e-cigs but just endless trouble with atomizers/etc. Bunch of cheap junk, but it still worked for a month or so untill i got tired of it all. Put in an order for the liquid vape, with the oil attachment . Just didn't mention that part.

DankD

Hey Noah sorry , I'm a nurse but because of a vasectomy that gave me debilitating nerve damage I can't practice nursing due to morphine and meds and the sensation of being continually kicked in the gonads I had to stop working and am on a permanent disability till I'm 67 I'm only 42. I wanted to get into the whole medicinal avenue for medical user here in Canada but we have a ways to go yet. I'm just happy I'm legal I can medicate in a way I feelin effective and nessesary for my own well being. When I see and here of like minded people as yourself I get the sense that the younger drs understand the effectiveness of alternative (so called ) medicines. I appreciate what your doing for those that need medicate to sustain a level of normal in life just to get to the next day,month,year I live to feel better and this is how I do it botanicals, oils and edibles which I produce myself so I know what's going in and what's coming out.

Thanks can wait to cera naid cera in my vape room where I medicate lol

Now you have committed yourself to quitting. Congrats.
That's how I quit too. But with the T1 / AVA RES mix.
No turning back now. And why would you.?

Can't believe this thread is up to page 62 already. WOW.

Pipes

Hey Pipes, you wouldn't happen to know of a place called Teddy's would you?

Hearing that you quit Pipes, and feeling confident in our product that DD will be able to quit if he wants. Thats what keeps us going, that what keeps us here 6-7 days a week, 18-20 hours a day.

Thank you.

Noah

Oh ya, go there regularly. Always busy and great food.
Gold mine.
Guess they let you out once in a while to come down.

Pipes