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Thermovape Cera (Original thread, closed because of chaos)

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by SameOldTim, Nov 1, 2012.

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  1. doniv

    doniv Active Member

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    32
    This sounds great to me! I was holding out for info on the concentrate cart! Would love an official word from Noah on the right cart for the lovely ball and of course, looking forward to your test results with bubble hash.

    From what I had read, weed and hash vaporize at different temps. I much prefer the flavour of hash and if there's a convenient way of vaping just the hash with the Cera, I would love to know that.
     
  2. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,889
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Couldn't prove it by me. THC is THC. In fact, bubble is the part of the very bud going in anyway.

    I've done a layer of bubble in my Iolite loads maybe half the time for over a year. It's a regulated vape at 390F. Likewise I do mixed bowls or just straight bubble in the HA between bowls of ABV (which it's excellent with on both counts). Again this is a temperature regulated vape running the same temperature for both (I usually start at 375 and work up to 400 or a bit under when the vapor tapers off and changes taste.

    My aborted run from this morning showed some considerable promise. Figuring about half bubble (Headband at a bit over 50%) this doubles the available THC in the bowl.

    OF
     
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  3. doniv

    doniv Active Member

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  4. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    I think that from our testing of T1, Evo's, Revs, and Cera's that we follow the general rule:

    Best for the Cera Essential Oil Vaporizer
    < 20% Plant material/Paraffins/Lipids etc. (these are usually the "highest grade/purity" essential oils)

    Best for the Cera Loose Leaf Vaporizer - Best to mix in with Loose Leaf
    > 20% Plant material/Paraffins/Lipids etc. i.e everything else that is medium-high grade or lower


    On another note Just shot a video of vaping the Cera. Anthony is editing now, maybe able to get it up tonight.
    Cheers,

    Noah
     
  5. doniv

    doniv Active Member

    Messages:
    32
    This is great information. I'd suggest it be put up on the website as well so n00bz like me don't plonk for the wrong 'un.
     
  6. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    Will do, good suggestion!
     
  7. doniv

    doniv Active Member

    Messages:
    32
    Let me shoot off my remaining questions now that we're talking :)

    Now that we've established that the loose leaf cart needs to be used for concentrates with a plant matter of > 20%, is there any way such concentrates can be vaped purely without mixing in some loose leaf?

    Also, if the oils given off by the concentrate during the vaping process soak down into the heater core, will the heater get damaged?

    Can the heater core be plonked into boiling water for cleaning like the rest of the vaporizer can?
     
  8. Futuretvowner

    Futuretvowner Active Member

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    358
    I have a feeling that thermovape still has something up their sleeve. They did say that this would eliminate the need for a plug-in vape.:smug:
     
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  9. doniv

    doniv Active Member

    Messages:
    32
    Interesting how you see that as TV withholding information and I see that as their declaration of good engineering.
     
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  10. PB88123

    PB88123 Vaporist

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    536
    When I think of "eliminate the need for a plug-in vape" I think of nothing to plug in = Cera. Maybe OF can give us some updated numbers with this new core he is testing. Last I heard 45 minutes of on time off 1 battery from the first core.
     
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  11. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    Absolutely, as long as it "grindable" so you can get enough surface area for convection vaporization to do its magic. If it is not grindable then it is better to mix it in with some loose leaf.

    No, we make very, very tough heater cores. No botanical materials will damage it.

    The Heater core can be:

    - Boiled
    -Soaked in IPA/EtoH
    - Autoclaved
    - Gamma Sterilized
    - Heated to 1000 Degrees F continuusly, i.e kilned or torched (O-rings must be removed)

    This is a cartridge that can be Truly cleaned, and sterilized.

    Of note. The main body of the Cera is not intended to be boiled. It is not required. The 3 ceramic parts exposed to vapor (Chamber, Top Cap, Mouthpiece) can all be cleaned/sterilized as above. The body can be wiped clean with with IPA etc. Not boiled.

    Cheers.
     
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  12. doniv

    doniv Active Member

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    32
    Noah, if there was a smooch button here I'd have hit that
     
  13. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,889
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Be glad to when I get the information. I haven't loaded up and run it enough to have useful information yet I did some power measurements, it's running about 14 Watts as I measured it against the 12 from the original under the same conditions (remember, the conditions I'm using are no doubt a little different that the 'standard' Tim uses when he labels test units. It's really a relative measure, not an absolute one. I think we all agree the second one is about 18% (two Watts out of 12) hotter. Being as we're talking about similar currents well withing 'normal' ranges for the battery I'd expect battery life to scale with that so something like 38 minutes (44 * (12/14)).

    I just woke up fairly refreshed and I think able to do a bit more objective testing of Cera. Next on the list is to resume the bubble/bud testing with the original core I was starting yesterday when I had to shut down early. Hopefully I can get some of that done, and a few shots at big clouds with the new core before the concentrate cart catches up with me (and dominates the testing schedule). I figure I've got two or 3 days for that, plenty for enough testing to get a good feel for it at least. FWIW, I don't see how to quantify those results in a meaningful way. At least not yet. The 'sneak attack' Cera pulled on me the other day tells me there's some serious potential there at least. Learning how to tap into that at will is another matter, I don't think most folks would take such surprises much better than I did.....

    Thanks for the patients, guys. I'm trying to do this in a fairly orderly and objective way so we can get some data we can trust. Like all good science that means experiments that can be repeated showing the same basic results. In the end we want dependable and predictable results most of all I think? I think we're getting there and it's looking mighty good to me. One foot in front of the other.....OK, sometimes crawling away too. Keeping a clear head is not trivial here ya know......

    OF
     
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  14. VapeHead.com

    VapeHead.com Well-Known Member Retailer

    Messages:
    104
    Location:
    Australia
    The problem is that when you remove trichomes from the plant, they:

    a) clump together (when kept in powdered kif form), reducing surface area; or
    b) if it's pressed then the cell walls (made of plant waxes etc.) blend with the actives into a homogenous mess

    Both forms are more difficult to vaporize, pressed kif or traditional black/brown hash significantly so. Pressing hash is done for a very specific purpose - so that it burns evenly and slowly. Pressed hash is literally made for smoking. Trying to vape it is never going to achieve the same results as burning it, and it's entirely counter-productive to be buying pressed hash (or pressing it yourself) if your goal is to vape it.

    Kif is kept in its powdered form for a reason - it stores well. It has a shelf life of years, even decades in the right circumstances (packed in air-tight containers, buried underground where temperatures are cool and relatively constant). The moment you press your hash, the actives start oxidizing - the reason that it eventually turns black. Once it's pressed the clock is ticking - it will start degrading, or spoil with mould. Traditional users press their hash immediately before smoking it, it's part of the ritual of use.

    So vote with your $ - if you want to vape, particularly with portables like the ThermoVape range and a limited (or maximum) temperature range, then you want to stick to powdered kif. If it has clumped together, break it apart with a stirrer before loading your vaporizer. If all you've got is pressed hash - just smoke it, or accept that you're never going to get all of its goodness at herbal vaporizing temperatures. High termperature vaporizers that can hit 220-270c (428-518f) will do better, I use Vriptech's VHW with the silicon placed high up and the temp at max. But you're entering the combustion range. Just smoke it!
     
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  15. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,889
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Thanks, that makes sense to me to a point. But my experience with such stuff in other vapes leads me to believe I'm actually getting THC out of that "homogenous mess" at the temperatures I have confidence I'm at. The rate may be slow, but volume and patients can help there. IMO it's quite possible.

    And while I think your basic advice is sound for getting to the THC, "Just smoke it!" is a different forum. This one is about taking advantage of the health benefits of vaping over smoking. Smoking it is going backwards in 'big picture' terms.

    Thanks again, broad perspectives are almost always good for the conversation.

    OF
     
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  16. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    We are good friends and collaborators with the head Vripper himself. We could not agree more the Vrip makes some very good tools for exploiting very broad temperature range vaporization. Great company. Great products IMO.

    Others may brag, but Mark at Vrip is truly a pioneer, and well ahead of his time. He was preaching, and teaching the benefits of vaporization long before many of us ever heard of it. He has been building vaporizers for well over a decade. All of us in this business today, who started after Mark, owe him a debt of gratitude. He is a force. Great guy, great innovator, great products. Can't go wrong with Vrip tools. Much better then smoking IMO!

    Cheers,

    Noah
     
  17. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    Allright. You asked for a video of the Cera in use, here she is. Just a standard go around with her for a "standard session" (used loosely). Special thanks to Anthony (Employee #1 from way back) who has recently dug up his camera gear and taken to trying to improve the quality of our videos.

    We DO NOT claim to be video prodution experts. I/We are also completely biased. That said, there is no trickery, the lighting is what you see, no slight of hand or special effects. Expect tobacco vapor to be thinner then the vapor produced from the material utilized in this production...



    More video to come. Anthony is on a mission. Hope this is helpful, cheers.
     
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  18. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,889
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Wow. I stumble back to my senses (such as they are....) after an amazing trial to the above video. I made the heart of that session as about 2.5 minutes. 3 very serious hits against the dozens I might do over 3 or 4 times that time frame. That confirms my feelings that it can handle rates far faster than I'm asking it to do which leads me back to thinking lower power might give useful results and longer battery life? Maybe not, but it does explain why TV is not that upset about it getting hot. I'm hanging onto it much longer (at least sometimes). Maybe the heat is a good thing, forces you to shut down rather than idling the gas tank dry?

    Anyway, I cleaned the bowl after the aborted 'bubble over bud' load. It wasn't fully spent yet, the bud still looked OK, trichomes basically gone but still not that dark nor crisp really. The hash was nearly black to start but looked like it had some life left. Nothing stuck anywhere looking like it was going to burn on for the rest of time. So, buoyed by Noah's comments above, I loaded up with straight bubble and a fresh battery. I used the same 'low 50s' Headband, very hard mostly like coarse table salt. Nothing fancy, but very nice and potent. I put in just over 300mg of it bringing like 150mg to the party. Something more than the estimated 24mg I was running with, say six times as much? Nice advantage.

    It works. It works too good, really. Understand I was still kind of raw from the coughing fit the other day from this very same machine, but I've been able to handle other vapes well enough (I checked). Not this one, not this time. It was very potent once it got going and it just kept coming and coming. Remember, I want to get through this bowl to see if it's a good idea WRT fouling the unit out. I'm coughing most every time, even for very modest hits. So I took to puffing on it, not really taking in much at all, like you see some guys doing to show the huge cloud capacity of their gear? The exhaust wasn't all that thick (I've got a couple of ideas mulling over about that part, some having to do with not being in the sun where I usually judge such stuff) but it sure was potent if you asked me. This was well over an hour ago, and it's still hard to get the letters out in the right order.

    It's not done yet, but I was. It was time to shut it down and coast for a while. It had stuck together as you'd expect and shruk enough it had pulled away to one side but it was very uniform, loose and moist with lots of passages for vapor to escape. It broke up very easily when poked with a toothpick. It's ready for more when I am.

    My take is I couldn't overrun it, even puffing the vapor away as fast as I could comfortably do. Reasonable power. Nothing is being destroyed, most of what goes in comes out.....and at about any rate I please. It's making me cough, but that no doubt is a number of factors most all of which are personal and concentrate related, not factors in the test. It is delivering rich vapor and plenty of it. If the user wants this sort of hit I think the conditions to deliver it at most any rate can be repeated easily.

    Pretty cool machine so far.

    I'm a basket case, rain has started (probably no garden tests today....), the sun is about to come up, time to think about breakfast. With or without my consent the day is starting. And very pleasantly I might add, if not all that coordinated. Time to get the tea started....let's see, tea and boiling water.....boiling water, let's see, water and hot.....

    OF
     
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  19. ThermoVape

    ThermoVape Vaporizer Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    509
    Location:
    Nor Cal
    We are uploading another video now, should be public and available in 20-30 minutes assuming all goes well.

    Time to go to bed, I am supposed to be awake in 2 hours....

    Cheers.
     
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  20. Dogman

    Dogman Vaporist Extrordinair

    Messages:
    244
    That was an awesome video. Anybody interested in a $200 Pax?
     
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  21. geneele

    geneele Member

    Messages:
    10
    Awesome. Looks very easy to load and use. I know from reading the PAX forum that there seems to be a dedicated, rather intense cleaning routine - what have you guys seen for the Cera in terms of where it should be cleaned and how often? Any problem areas?

    Also (for the TV guys) - when I placed my order on the 26th I never received a confirmation email - and the receipt page didn't have an invoice number, nor did it show my shipping address. My CC was charged... just wanted to ensure that everything is good.
     
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  22. SoulCaptivesAreFree

    SoulCaptivesAreFree Hazemaniac

    Messages:
    237
    Location:
    Bavarylon
    the cera more and more looks like a dream come true :)


    although i have to agree with vorrange, trashing the other companies in that spot really is just completely superfluous, cera really can stand on its (can't call it a her, find that very weird with pipes, even more so with a vape) own! but maybe it's just us europeans not being used to comparative advertising...

    anyways really like what i'm seeing in that last video!

    there will be a gong-adapter, yes?
     
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  23. SpiralVape

    SpiralVape Member

    Messages:
    29
    Been lurking on this tread as it is almost the only forum out there discussing the Cera.

    Regarding the video spot and the brief shot of another ecig: I started vaping about a year ago and was vaping a cartomizer from a well known company that I won't mention. I heard a pop on the cart and had an odd plastic smell. When I took apart the cart, it looked like there was some sort of caulking on the bottom of the cart that was holding the wick. I looked at another cart and noticed the same thing. This started me searching for the safest ecig. I went through a couple more brands but kept coming across issues that I felt could be leaching anything from plastic, to metal ions into the vapor. I finally found the ultra max and in my opinion it's the safest ecig out there. Even with the AVA's, I have some concerns about how the heating element holds up under prolong usage. I've been using mine for a couple months.

    I'm looking forward to the cera to see what improvements have been made. Glass is the cleanest material for cooking or storing liquid. But not always practical. Ceramic would be the next best thing. All this to say, most e-smokers may be getting exposed to some chemicals that may not be safer than smoking. In my opinion, briefly showing what looked like a generic ecig is acceptable for e-smokers who may be wondering about the safety of their e-cig.

    A couple years ago, it was discovered that BPA was leeching into water from plastic water bottles. This caused camelbak & nalgene to switch the plastic they were using to be BPA free. It makes me wonder how the grade of cheap plastic affects all the plastic e-cigs out there that store the liquid in plastic?

    I'm curious about why TV chose to go with an iron heating element.
     
  24. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,889
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Based on the experience of T1 and other TV products it should be quite easy and rare. The parts in contact with the herb are basically metal and ceramic. You can soak them in darn near anything you want. Alcohols and similar solvents will no doubt be commonly used. A favorite being high proof Isopropyl alcohol. However, you can also boil them, or run them through the dishwasher (be careful of the wife on this one) or any handy autoclave. It's basically a medical grade instrument in that respect.

    However, I don't expect to have to do it as much as other TV products needed it. Identified problem areas, like the output grid on T1 that jammed first have been eliminated. Lots of areas are now basically self cleaning.

    Before I'd clean when draw got restricted or taste buildup dictated. I no longer expect the first and expect the second to be lesser. I'll probably clean when I get bored or when changing strains and wanting to start with a fresh slate.

    So clean the cartridge, cap and mouthpiece as often as you feel like it in most any way you care. "It's all good".

    I do believe you've hit it square on the head. It's a cultural thing. Here we're bombarded with negative ads, we just went through a nasty nasty election that saw half the country demonizing the other. Very thinly disguised class warfare of a disgusting nature (IMO) between car and soft drink ads. It's the rare auto ad that does not hold a competitors car up as an example of what the other fellow's car is superior to. So TV implying that some people might not have like some (unnamed really) vapes but should consider Cera seems almost logical some how. It can very easily escape notice.

    While you might (rightly) say "europeans not being used to comparative advertising", I might counter, "perhaps we upstart Colonials are too used to it"? We've become numb from being beat about the head and shoulders with negative ads hour after hour. Sad, really.

    We are different people. It's not a traffic violation to make eye contact with another driver here you know. It's not only common to glare, but it's often coupled to shouted references to the other fellow's mother, or expressions of contempt (usually with a gesture made with one hand you may be familiar with). Every day. And this is not even New York......

    We feel different about our Queens here too, BTW.

    First off, welcome to the fun, good folks, good information IMO.

    Yeah, having the latest on this guy right here and the principals involved on line is super, isn't it? I'm lovin' it.

    In simple terms the specific alloy they chose was deemed the best for the job. Stainless steel adds taste, even though minorly and therefore impact the purity of delivered vapor. Or so part of the logic goes. You fine iron used in top end cookware for a reason. Same reason is in play here. Remember one of the principals is an MD and a true 'nut case' on the issue. Purity above all else, the absolute best materials available for the job. I actually guessed the exact alloy used, a lucky guess based on using it many years ago for a different but also very demanding application. Once you start down the path, you end at a class of alloys all with high iron content. Then again, while Stainless Steel also has a very high iron content, there's some surface material science going on there in the top few atomic layers that keeps it from rusting is all. By way of clue, something similar happens in Cera.

    OF
     
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  25. Futuretvowner

    Futuretvowner Active Member

    Messages:
    358
    It's interesting to me that there are so many low post members nutting over a device they haven't even had a chance to see in use before an hour ago.

    Also I never claimed that TV is withholding information from us...... I said that I think they could have something up their sleeve (like an AC adapter or something none of us know about) that would make this eliminate the need for a desktop unit. As of right now this most certainly does not eliminate the need for a desktop unit but neither does any other portable currently out on the market.
     
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