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Gear The Source by Extract Craft - a closed loop system for alcohol extractions

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
Anyone know how much vacuum this machine produces?

Manual has cutoff temperature listed at 110 F, 117 F and 130 F.
No idea on the vac level since they only measure it in %, I'd be curious to know what it is.

I just looked that up in the manual, the limits mean that at 110F you need to press the button to restart, 117F you need to powercycle it and at 130F the fuse goes and you need to send it back in. I guess there's some sort of problem with their temperature sensor and control software. I'm kinda surprised they didn't catch it during testing before it was released.
 

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
Just got an update, it's definitely a confirmed issue now possibly due to some inconsistencies in the motors they use in it. They're actively working on the issue and I'll update again when I hear something. Suffice it to say I would hold off on buying one until all the issues are fixed.
 
Just got an update, it's definitely a confirmed issue now possibly due to some inconsistencies in the motors they use in it. They're actively working on the issue and I'll update again when I hear something. Suffice it to say I would hold off on buying one until all the issues are fixed.

It seems that some of the motors that went into some of the units do not perform to the stated specs. Today they said they were closing in on the solution, writing new code, and making sure the new performance is solid. They said anyone with a problem will be able to replace the unit as per the warrantee.

That aside, have you made anything yet? I just made some RSO in coconut oil for a sick friend and they loved it.
 
IchiBanCrafter,
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2clicker

Observer
what is the wait time for a batch start to finish?

why would someone use this over a rosin setup?
 
2clicker,

djelibebbi

AKA djelimon, but lost the email
2clicker I'm not a rosin expert but it seems to me looking at what people post on Facebook that it doesn't scale easy. I mean I see guys with presses the size of a fridge so they can do an ounce at once. They could be doing it wrong and I'm open to hear what you have to say.

I am also not sure what yields you get with rosin compared to qwet or how rosin works with avb. I've gotten a black shatter from avb
 
djelibebbi,
Start to finish for 1oz of green will be about 3 hours doing everything. If you want the wax/sap to set to shatter add that work.

Rosin press does only one thing, but it does it really well, dabs. The Source has additional functionality, a lot that is not applicable to this thread, but I've had fun adding flavors and messing around with consistency. Rosin press pretty bulletproof, simple, and reliable though.
 

2clicker

Observer
2clicker I'm not a rosin expert but it seems to me looking at what people post on Facebook that it doesn't scale easy. I mean I see guys with presses the size of a fridge so they can do an ounce at once. They could be doing it wrong and I'm open to hear what you have to say.

I am also not sure what yields you get with rosin compared to qwet or how rosin works with avb. I've gotten a black shatter from avb

the quality of starting material and moisture in the flowers are the two biggest factors for rosin. if done properly you will get the same return from rosin tech that you will from any other extraction. you can go from flower to dab in like 2-3 mins with rosin.

yes its takes a while to run an ounce (dep on yer rosin setup) but its quality is unmatched from any solvent based extraction ive ever had (non friendly state). not to mention there are no solvents to worry about.

but thats why i ask how l ask long this machine takes to go from start to dab. if its not bad and one can run a large quantity then its worth looking into. if the purge is still the same as a normal vac purge, as well as being the same PITA as a reg vac purge then its not worth it.

and i used to do nothing but ethanol (everclear) extractions. now its all rosin. so yeah... lookng for the pros and cons of this device compared to the rosin tech.

i would still use a solvent extraction for abv, but since i dont use flowers at all anymore... i have no abv to process.

Start to finish for 1oz of green will be about 3 hours doing everything. If you want the wax/sap to set to shatter add that work.

Rosin press does only one thing, but it does it really well, dabs. The Source has additional functionality, a lot that is not applicable to this thread, but I've had fun adding flavors and messing around with consistency. Rosin press pretty bulletproof, simple, and reliable though.

gotcha. thanks!
 

djelibebbi

AKA djelimon, but lost the email
the quality of starting material and moisture in the flowers are the two biggest factors for rosin. if done properly you will get the same return from rosin tech that you will from any other extraction. you can go from flower to dab in like 2-3 mins with rosin.

yes its takes a while to run an ounce (dep on yer rosin setup) but its quality is unmatched from any solvent based extraction ive ever had (non friendly state). not to mention there are no solvents to worry about.

but thats why i ask how l ask long this machine takes to go from start to dab. if its not bad and one can run a large quantity then its worth looking into. if the purge is still the same as a normal vac purge, as well as being the same PITA as a reg vac purge then its not worth it.

and i used to do nothing but ethanol (everclear) extractions. now its all rosin. so yeah... lookng for the pros and cons of this device compared to the rosin tech.

i would still use a solvent extraction for abv, but since i dont use flowers at all anymore... i have no abv to process.



gotcha. thanks!
For me Rosin seems to be more art than science ATM, but you have given me food for thought and I will look into it some more. Thanks
 
djelibebbi,
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2clicker

Observer
For me Rosin seems to be more art than science ATM, but you have given me food for thought and I will look into it some more. Thanks

you bet! have you followed the rosin thread here? its pretty thorough. lots of how tos and heads experimenting. moisture content, filter usage, and DIY press builds. and check out Hash Church every once in a while if you dont already.

anyway, i do like the sound of a machine that will do it all and while not as quick as rosin tech... 3 hours isnt bad at all. my interest is peaked for sure. its just that i HATE purging. that started when rosin came into my life. other than that i always loved my qwet.
 
2clicker,
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Monsoon

Well-Known Member
That aside, have you made anything yet? I just made some RSO in coconut oil for a sick friend and they loved it.
Not yet, gonna wait until it's fixed.

but thats why i ask how l ask long this machine takes to go from start to dab. if its not bad and one can run a large quantity then its worth looking into. if the purge is still the same as a normal vac purge, as well as being the same PITA as a reg vac purge then its not worth it.
I make QWET shatter and only plan to use it to reduce and reclaim the alcohol before normal purging. I figure since I usually end of with 1L of ethanol solution, I'll save ~1.5 days evaporating before purging in the vac and I've save $50 in ethanol to reuse next time. As a bonus it should reduce alcohol fumes significantly and there's less chance of particulates getting in.

I gave rosin a good try, was pretty active in the thread before too. Didn't quite work out as well in practice. I wasted a good chunk of weed due to shitty yields and decided to call it a day before I lost any more. I'm sure I could have gotten it right eventually but I don't have the time and money to waste getting there. I also prefer the taste and high of my shatter and mine can also stay stable for months versus a couple days for rosin.
 
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Not yet, gonna wait until it's fixed.


I make QWET shatter and only plan to use it to reduce and reclaim the alcohol before normal purging. I figure since I usually end of with 1L of ethanol solution, I'll save ~1.5 days evaporating before purging in the vac and I've save $50 in ethanol to reuse next time. As a bonus it should reduce alcohol fumes significantly and there's less chance of particulates getting in.

I gave rosin a good try, was pretty active in the thread before too. Didn't quite work out as well in practice. I wasted a good chunk of weed due to shitty yields and decided to call it a day before I lost any more. I'm sure I could have gotten it right eventually but I don't have the time and money to waste getting there. I also prefer the taste and high of my shatter and mine can also stay stable for months versus a couple days for rosin.
When you say your shatter is "stable for months", do you mean it will stay ridged for that long? If so, would you be willing to let me in on your technique or is it something you would rather keep to yourself (which I can understand)? I can't get mine that stable.....
 
IchiBanCrafter,
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Monsoon

Well-Known Member
When you say your shatter is "stable for months", do you mean it will stay ridged for that long? If so, would you be willing to let me in on your technique or is it something you would rather keep to yourself (which I can understand)? I can't get mine that stable.....
Pretty much, I stopped storing it in the freezer awhile ago and just leave it out now (humidity is 40-60%) covered in parchment paper. This is using high quality indoor grown flowers as a starting material, usually freshly cured before drying. I'm all for sharing the knowledge, my more or less current technique is here and also in my signature below along with some other personal projects. I highly recommend trying the DIY lotion, it's simple, ultra cheap and super effective. If you put your own version on your blog, all I ask is that you give some credit to the link on FC.
 
Pretty much, I stopped storing it in the freezer awhile ago and just leave it out now (humidity is 40-60%) covered in parchment paper. This is using high quality indoor grown flowers as a starting material, usually freshly cured before drying. I'm all for sharing the knowledge, my more or less current technique is here and also in my signature below along with some other personal projects. I highly recommend trying the DIY lotion, it's simple, ultra cheap and super effective. If you put your own version on your blog, all I ask is that you give some credit to the link on FC.
great, thanks!! I will take a look soon. If I write anything that I use from here or your direction I will for sure give full credit. When I get the time to try some stuff out I will come back and let you know.

Also, about not using the machine until its fixed. They told me I can run mine all day and once the fix is in they will sort out a new base unit, and it sounds like they have the problem fixed and are just fine tuning now.
 
IchiBanCrafter,
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Monsoon

Well-Known Member
Also, about not using the machine until its fixed. They told me I can run mine all day and once the fix is in they will sort out a new base unit, and it sounds like they have the problem fixed and are just fine tuning now.
I know that but if a fix is coming relatively soon I'm not going to worry about temps and just do it the old school way for now.
 

Swong

Hey Texas - LEGALIZE IT!!
Finally found a video where someone shows their end product! Not sure about the part where he pours alcohol in at the end because he took it too far, looks like he f'd that up a little, but what do you guys think? If I can make my own concentrates and RSO without having to mess with stuff so much...it kinda looks worth it.
 

djelibebbi

AKA djelimon, but lost the email
I'm glad I saw that video. Definitely feeling the craft. Maybe I'll just use my Green Oil machine to make moonshine and buy thus when they get the kinks out
 

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
No updates yet on a new replacement unit, I think they tried to call me earlier this week so maybe they're at least making progress. I don't really care how long it takes at this point as long as they get it right.
 
Just realized I posted this on the wrong thread so apologies to those that have seen it:

Update on my new units. Running solid between 101-104f for whole process. I ran it dry for extended period and took a while for heat to build up to 125 but it is not meant to run dry I suppose. Making some nice terpy flower runs will post vid/photos soon as I get some equipment
 

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
Just realized I posted this on the wrong thread so apologies to those that have seen it:

Update on my new units. Running solid between 101-104f for whole process. I ran it dry for extended period and took a while for heat to build up to 125 but it is not meant to run dry I suppose. Making some nice terpy flower runs will post vid/photos soon as I get some equipment
Can't wait to get mine, I just did a wash and ended up with 1.2L of ethanol which is up to 4 days of evaporation and a full $65 bottle :o. I'm happy to hear that they fixed it though.
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, I've watched this thread for a while even with my recent hiatus, but no pressure gauge nor objective measurement of vacuum pressure is provided with this product, which really limits it for my needs.

Also, I died inside a little bit watching that dude in the video put a cheap silicone container full of ISO/earl solution into a vacuum of unknown pressure. Please guys, don't put silicone in a vacuum like that unless you know exactly how that particular silicone polymer will behave in contact with such a complex mixture of solvents (both iso and terps).

Without a proper chamber pressure measurement (not a % of maximum pressure for that particular pump, which is subjective and is not useful for calculating whether you have got ideal conditions for purge or not) - there really isn't a way that you can be sure how that silicone will behave in there, not even with access to the scholarly literature on the topic (which will still require that you can measure the conditions within the chamber).

This does leave us with one other curious point though - Just what did the manufacturer expect the user will do to collect their earl from that metal dish? That dish has a narrower base than any of the glassware I use, with very high edges. It looks like scraping would be tough! You'd need a long tool and a lot of diligence (no pun intended)!

Have any of you guys who have one had any problems with this?

Of course, the oil in that video came out terrible. To be fair, I am sure this is to do with technique though - it looks like he ground up that bud and used ISO. This is gonna reliably give you not so great tasting black slop unless the iso barely makes contact with the bud.

I do think with better wash technique and the right tool to scrape that dish, that this could be used with great success for those wanting to make their own decent solvent extracts though.

If you have access to testing facilities, I'd still get my earlier batches tested for residual solvents until you can be sure you've dialled in the purge to remove all of the alcohol reliably. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing!

Do not rely on recovering the same volume of fluid from the purge as what you put in. This fluid may or may not contain fractions boiled out from the cannabis resin which may pad out the volume of recovered solvent and lead you to believe that all of the alcohol is out of the extract.
 
Hmmmm, I've watched this thread for a while even with my recent hiatus, but no pressure gauge nor objective measurement of vacuum pressure is provided with this product, which really limits it for my needs.

Also, I died inside a little bit watching that dude in the video put a cheap silicone container full of ISO/earl solution into a vacuum of unknown pressure. Please guys, don't put silicone in a vacuum like that unless you know exactly how that particular silicone polymer will behave in contact with such a complex mixture of solvents (both iso and terps).

Without a proper chamber pressure measurement (not a % of maximum pressure for that particular pump, which is subjective and is not useful for calculating whether you have got ideal conditions for purge or not) - there really isn't a way that you can be sure how that silicone will behave in there, not even with access to the scholarly literature on the topic (which will still require that you can measure the conditions within the chamber).

This does leave us with one other curious point though - Just what did the manufacturer expect the user will do to collect their earl from that metal dish? That dish has a narrower base than any of the glassware I use, with very high edges. It looks like scraping would be tough! You'd need a long tool and a lot of diligence (no pun intended)!

Have any of you guys who have one had any problems with this?

Of course, the oil in that video came out terrible. To be fair, I am sure this is to do with technique though - it looks like he ground up that bud and used ISO. This is gonna reliably give you not so great tasting black slop unless the iso barely makes contact with the bud.

I do think with better wash technique and the right tool to scrape that dish, that this could be used with great success for those wanting to make their own decent solvent extracts though.

If you have access to testing facilities, I'd still get my earlier batches tested for residual solvents until you can be sure you've dialled in the purge to remove all of the alcohol reliably. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing!

Do not rely on recovering the same volume of fluid from the purge as what you put in. This fluid may or may not contain fractions boiled out from the cannabis resin which may pad out the volume of recovered solvent and lead you to believe that all of the alcohol is out of the extract.
Collecting the earl from the cup is tough when left in too long to harden. When the earl is thick but still workable I remove it quickly with a mini spatula and put it into a food safe silicone cupcake cup to finish. It this point the vast majority of ethanol is gone and the process time is short. I have not been concerned about finishing this way because of the very limited exposure and more importantly both the Everclear and Silicone I'm using is Food Grade and meant for cooking. Having said that, the cup the guy used in the video looked like a cheap Chinese cup, so I would be wary of that.

The pressure issue from what I understand is a known and Lee, the inventor told me but I have forgotten. I'm sure he would share that info with you.

As far as being careful to make sure every last simple part of the alcohol is gone, is this really important? Everclear is food safe, it's not a hydrocarbon, and it evaporates quite easily. People invest alcohol all the time, including alcohol inhalation devices like the Vaportini. While I want to get as much out as possible with the goal of removing all for smoke quality I can't find much to worry about trace amounts.

I know I will get crucified by the solvent less guys but these are simply my opinions.
 

Monsoon

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, I've watched this thread for a while even with my recent hiatus, but no pressure gauge nor objective measurement of vacuum pressure is provided with this product, which really limits it for my needs.

Also, I died inside a little bit watching that dude in the video put a cheap silicone container full of ISO/earl solution into a vacuum of unknown pressure. Please guys, don't put silicone in a vacuum like that unless you know exactly how that particular silicone polymer will behave in contact with such a complex mixture of solvents (both iso and terps).

Without a proper chamber pressure measurement (not a % of maximum pressure for that particular pump, which is subjective and is not useful for calculating whether you have got ideal conditions for purge or not) - there really isn't a way that you can be sure how that silicone will behave in there, not even with access to the scholarly literature on the topic (which will still require that you can measure the conditions within the chamber).

This does leave us with one other curious point though - Just what did the manufacturer expect the user will do to collect their earl from that metal dish? That dish has a narrower base than any of the glassware I use, with very high edges. It looks like scraping would be tough! You'd need a long tool and a lot of diligence (no pun intended)!

Have any of you guys who have one had any problems with this?

Of course, the oil in that video came out terrible. To be fair, I am sure this is to do with technique though - it looks like he ground up that bud and used ISO. This is gonna reliably give you not so great tasting black slop unless the iso barely makes contact with the bud.

I do think with better wash technique and the right tool to scrape that dish, that this could be used with great success for those wanting to make their own decent solvent extracts though.

If you have access to testing facilities, I'd still get my earlier batches tested for residual solvents until you can be sure you've dialled in the purge to remove all of the alcohol reliably. Peace of mind is a wonderful thing!

Do not rely on recovering the same volume of fluid from the purge as what you put in. This fluid may or may not contain fractions boiled out from the cannabis resin which may pad out the volume of recovered solvent and lead you to believe that all of the alcohol is out of the extract.

I personally wouldn't use it as an all-in-one solution for shatter unless I didn't have a choice, though for those who are okay with a bit of residual solvent left it should be workable. For my use it's fine since I'll only be evaporating down to 50-100ml and then finishing it off in my vac chamber. I also see it as a great solution for people making tinctures and edibles since those don't need to be fully purged before using.
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
Collecting the earl from the cup is tough when left in too long to harden. When the earl is thick but still workable I remove it quickly with a mini spatula and put it into a food safe silicone cupcake cup to finish. It this point the vast majority of ethanol is gone and the process time is short. I have not been concerned about finishing this way because of the very limited exposure and more importantly both the Everclear and Silicone I'm using is Food Grade and meant for cooking. Having said that, the cup the guy used in the video looked like a cheap Chinese cup, so I would be wary of that.

The pressure issue from what I understand is a known and Lee, the inventor told me but I have forgotten. I'm sure he would share that info with you.

As far as being careful to make sure every last simple part of the alcohol is gone, is this really important? Everclear is food safe, it's not a hydrocarbon, and it evaporates quite easily. People invest alcohol all the time, including alcohol inhalation devices like the Vaportini. While I want to get as much out as possible with the goal of removing all for smoke quality I can't find much to worry about trace amounts.

I know I will get crucified by the solvent less guys but these are simply my opinions.
Cheers for the info. I'd be interested to find out about the pressure question and whether a solution is in the pipeline to measure pressure.

Does this unit use inductive heating per chance? Is it possible to simply switch to a more appropriately shaped glass dish in the source instead of the SS bowl for the scraping?

Also everything behaves differently in a vacuum, remember that when the pressure changes you cannot be sure anymore that you have a chamber whose conditions are safe to put anything in. I don't trust anything that isn't borosilicate and my meds inside a vac chamber. An ounce of prevention is worth quarter of an ounce of unspoiled meds for me!

I have seen silicone delaminate and stick to full melt (solventless resin), let alone solvent based concentrates with residuals (with which I've seen all kinds of weird behaviour with over time when stored in silicone containers, even when fully purged - I fully abandoned silicone container for concentrate storage or processing over a year ago).

When you have a bunch of ethanol in the mix as well as probably more terps than traditional heat purging would leave, you have an atomsphere full of hydrocarbon vapors around your silicone (a polymer rated only to be used in specific scenarios - food grade does not imply safety for use in a vacuum, nor does food grade have any bearing at all on the superheating and inhalation of a substance where ethanol is concerned).

Let me explain what I mean when I mention hydrocarbons since it is true that ethanol has a hydroxyl group and is hence not a hydrocarbon. When ethanol is superheated, it is known to release ethylene (a hydrocarbon and asphyxiant) and h2o. I have posted scholarly articles to this effect on FC before.

Of course, ethanol itself is a carcinogen and a solvent and will dehydrate your airways in enough concentration whether from too much residual in one dab, or cumulative exposure from small amounts of residual in many dabs. That for me, is beyond the risks that I am prepared to take. Of course, you may decide for yourself what you like to do bro. :peace:

With inhaling alcohol - nobody yet completely understands the long term and/or cumulative effects of inhaling alcohol. I have not been able to find scholarly studies concerning the direct inhalation of superheated alcohol (alcohol vaporists tend to use pressure/pumps to vaporize and inhale their alcohol - not heat and oxygen which changes every chemical it comes into contact with in ways that are both to some extent known and unknown!). Dabbing a residual solvent filled oil long term could lead to your inhaling ethanol (a known carcinogen!!!!!), ethylene (an asphyxiant) and more. As a medical user, this is no bueno. As a vaporist who quit smoking for health reasons - this is also self-defeating. Again, it is for you to decide if you mind inhaling alcohol and byproducts of it's oxidation/decomposition of course. As for me, I'll only use solvents for dabmaking when I can be sure that the solvent is gone.

Still, I am sure that we could make this setup work in a way that will allow full purge and collection. It will be a matter of the right tool, or replacing the stock boiling vessel/dish. What metal is that dish made of btw?

I personally wouldn't use it as an all-in-one solution for shatter unless I didn't have a choice, though for those who are okay with a bit of residual solvent left it should be workable. For my use it's fine since I'll only be evaporating down to 50-100ml and then finishing it off in my vac chamber. I also see it as a great solution for people making tinctures and edibles since those don't need to be fully purged before using.

I agree with you here my friend, this would be fantastic for tinctures and edibles! I do think that we could yet figure out a way to make this workable as a standalone shatter solution with some thought and some minor modifications! The crucial starting point is determining if this is inductive or conductive heat we are dealing with. The second would be to see what the metal vessel that comes with the unit is made out of.

For example, a titanium shovel tool with a long handle could be great for scraping this dish! You would just want to be sure that the metal dish was much harder than ti though, and that you were careful not to scrape metal shavings off as you collect. Another possibility as I mention above would be to replace the vessel with something else.

I'm fascinated to see what can be done here! If we can overcome this issue and get pressure measurement - sign me up! :2c:
 
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