The Science of Vaporizing
- Thread starter vtac
- Start date
Monsoon
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting experiment testing how much THC, CBN, and CBD is in the herb both before and after using it in a vaporizer:
http://www.greencrossofbc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=113#p113
http://www.greencrossofbc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=113#p113
nicelytoasted
Vaked Chemist
Phang:
The main cannabinoids, their boiling points, and properties
?-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic
cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic
Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic
cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal
?-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (?-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles ?-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic
tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant
There are many different types of THCs, with boiling points above and below the CBD/CDNs.
Delta-9 provides the vast majority of the effect that we seek.
The main cannabinoids, their boiling points, and properties
?-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic
cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic
Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic
cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal
?-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (?-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles ?-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic
tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant
There are many different types of THCs, with boiling points above and below the CBD/CDNs.
Delta-9 provides the vast majority of the effect that we seek.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
I have run into people several times who think the best vaporizing is without any visible vapor at all. This forum seems to be in chase of the thickest hits. What do you guys think? Would cooler temps yield less visible vapor with the ingredients vaporized based on the temps as we have listed here?
Vape4therestofmylife
Well-Known Member
i dunno it think its probably a matter a preference.
I prefer vapor a bit on the low end because it dosnt make me feel as tired and groggy.
I prefer vapor a bit on the low end because it dosnt make me feel as tired and groggy.
stickstones
Vapor concierge
See that list above lists sedative as a side effect of CBN's which boil at 185 C. SO in theory, you could always vape below this to avoid the sedative effect. But then you will be missing out on all the stuff that comes out at higher temps...
nicelytoasted
Vaked Chemist
Stick:
You could temp ramp your sessions in increments to finish at ~ 185C. That way you could control your effects while still getting the full spectrum of the range.
You could temp ramp your sessions in increments to finish at ~ 185C. That way you could control your effects while still getting the full spectrum of the range.
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
I would love to see high res macros of FMB vaporized. (full melt clear dome hash!)
next time i'll try again to pix it , but it is really hard cause the bowl came dirty and it's hard to see the trych. bubblin btw my cam can't take some super macro bubbleman do 
I also wonder if some one can bring the toxin boiling temp ?
nicelytoasted
Vaked Chemist
CD
Going from memory here,,,
It's not really their boiling points per se, but as far as the toxic compounds being released from mj (from heating and incomplete combustion):
The aromatics:
Benzene and toluene (methylbenzene) begin to release at ~ 200C.
I don't have a temp for naphthalene, but it being a larger, heavier compound probably between 200-220C.
Of course, the carbon monoxide and tars release as we start to combust (and oxidize): ~ 230C, while the heaviest, nastiest aromatics, the polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) range from 250C upwards to 400C+.
Hope this helps.
Going from memory here,,,
It's not really their boiling points per se, but as far as the toxic compounds being released from mj (from heating and incomplete combustion):
The aromatics:
Benzene and toluene (methylbenzene) begin to release at ~ 200C.
I don't have a temp for naphthalene, but it being a larger, heavier compound probably between 200-220C.
Of course, the carbon monoxide and tars release as we start to combust (and oxidize): ~ 230C, while the heaviest, nastiest aromatics, the polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) range from 250C upwards to 400C+.
Hope this helps.
SpiralArchitect
? & beyond
This thread should be stickied. 
nicelytoasted,
Have you given your webcam any more practice? Those pictures really are great. One thing I notice missing is some 'before' pictures (maybe I missed them). If you have some different strains, maybe give it a shot. It seems your the expert here....
Another interesting experiment would be allowing the wax heads to simply melt in a hot E bowl, possibly capturing a before/after there. I hear it provides a better (thicker?) vape allowing the trics to warm up a bit.
Edit: One more question about smoking: If your bowl is cherried whilst combusting, it would be a lower temperature than a direct flame -- does that = a 'healthier' smoke? Just something that popped into my head... glow rods do seem to give a tastier, smoother smoke when I use them.
I did have a question about condensation though -- is there a temperature when this happens and are their anyways to avoid/reduce it?
I notice residue collecting on the inside of my tubing/PD stems/bong. It's very golden in color and extremely potent.
(I'm high and sleep deprived, I hope this all makes sense.)
nicelytoasted,
Have you given your webcam any more practice? Those pictures really are great. One thing I notice missing is some 'before' pictures (maybe I missed them). If you have some different strains, maybe give it a shot. It seems your the expert here....
Another interesting experiment would be allowing the wax heads to simply melt in a hot E bowl, possibly capturing a before/after there. I hear it provides a better (thicker?) vape allowing the trics to warm up a bit.
Edit: One more question about smoking: If your bowl is cherried whilst combusting, it would be a lower temperature than a direct flame -- does that = a 'healthier' smoke? Just something that popped into my head... glow rods do seem to give a tastier, smoother smoke when I use them.
I did have a question about condensation though -- is there a temperature when this happens and are their anyways to avoid/reduce it?
I notice residue collecting on the inside of my tubing/PD stems/bong. It's very golden in color and extremely potent.
(I'm high and sleep deprived, I hope this all makes sense.)
bluntfaced
I'm El Diablo Baby!!!
resin happens, enjoy it
marcuss
above the clouds
I'll take this experiment as a grain of salt....it is more like a home made test that states the exact opposite of what should happen.....i can say that if you eat a slice of ABV cake after one hour you are ready to go to bed...no thc high but only a sleepy cbn effect.Phaang said:
If i make a cake with some fresh cannabutter the same slice send me in the outer space...this is only my personal experience but it is so clear and simple to be true to me!
SometimesY
Well-Known Member
Marcuss, I'm inclined to agree with you. They state that the THC doesn't start to vaporize until 200C, and that the 7.5 Volcano setting didn't strip any of the THC from the sample. I do two bags on my Volcano, one at 5.5, and one at 6.5 (about 196C). They are definitely different experiences, but I find it difficult to believe that there's no THC in there. Of course the Dr. from that experiment also postulates that much of the "high" feeling is due to the essential oils that would be vaporized at the lower temp, rather than THC.marcuss said:
My duff brownies, though, definitely seem to be CBN/CBD-rich, rather than have high amounts of THC (which you would think they would, if the duff contained high amounts of unvaporized THC). That correlates with your experience.
Then again, the process of making cannabutter and brownies (heating) may be degrading the THC into CBN (but it should do the same with fresh bud, if that's the case, right?).
One thing specific to the Volcano that they do not mention is how big their bags are. If they are two small, the THC may be de-carboxylated, but not put into a vapor state, just because they weren't exposed to the required temperature long enough. My bags are pretty big (I get about 6 hits from each of them), and I think that is a very important variable, as it determines the amount of time the sample is exposed to the temperature. If the bag inflates in 45 seconds, it's going to have different properties than one that inflates in 3 minutes (like mine do).
marcuss
above the clouds
Welcome SometimesY!Nice post no.1!!
Thanks to add your experience as volcano user....i'm sure in that experiment must be something wrong or out of control....i think that the list from nicelytoasted is what i usually read everywhere since i'm little boy...long time
you are right on the time variable...the first seconds are to heat up the plant material and de-carboxylated thc....then start the real vaporization....when you start hit or fill a bag first you got lot of air and volatile oils in the mix then the vapor build up and thc is released in its active form with other oils at their boiling temp when this temp is reached. It is a gradual extraction IMO and if you stay under the 200C mark something is obviously left in the ABV but not that amount of thc if any...
I'm not a scientist so i could be wrong....
Thanks to add your experience as volcano user....i'm sure in that experiment must be something wrong or out of control....i think that the list from nicelytoasted is what i usually read everywhere since i'm little boy...long time
you are right on the time variable...the first seconds are to heat up the plant material and de-carboxylated thc....then start the real vaporization....when you start hit or fill a bag first you got lot of air and volatile oils in the mix then the vapor build up and thc is released in its active form with other oils at their boiling temp when this temp is reached. It is a gradual extraction IMO and if you stay under the 200C mark something is obviously left in the ABV but not that amount of thc if any...
I'm not a scientist so i could be wrong....
nicelytoasted
Vaked Chemist
Thanks Spiral Architect
The first two links in my little experiment were macro pics of the unvaped herb.
I like your idea of before/after shots of the herb in the hot bowl to show the effects of conditioning it before vaping. (You can also see the difference in the trics from my first test of vaping fresh herb even at 160C or 320F). Conditioning would also ensure that the mj has decarboxylated from the acid into its active form.
The glow rods would not only be at a lower temp than a direct flame, but I assume that it would heat it gentler as well. Probably less particulate (and the PAHs on the particulate) in the smoke, imo.
Condensation occurs when a warm or hot air stream contacts a cooler surface. The temperature of the warmer air drops to its dew point at which there is 100% humidity (saturation). It's the price we pay for wanting our cooler, smoother tokes, but at least we can recover/recycle/reuse the resin!
Edit:
Marcuss/SometimesY:
I like to look at that 200C as the temperature at which mostly all types of THCs are completely boiled off. Keep in mind that there are different kinds of THC, it's not just one complex chemical. The delta number just designates where the double bond is found in the structure.
For example, I believe that delta-9 thc starts to volatilize (go from oil to vapor) as low as 140C up to completion at ~ 160C.
Also, these are volatile oils that we are vaporizing. They go into the vapor phase quite easily and do not require much exposure to the heat, even at lower vaping temperatures. As long as the air stream reaches the boiling point (or above) of any of the actives, they will release.
As I mentioned, thats an advantage of preconditioning your herb/bowl before vaping it. Ensures the herb is active and starts to melt the trics. If the AVB is a nice consistent brown color upon completion, you and your vape have done the job.
Filling bags faster or slower does affect it's properties, but more likely due to the flow rates of air changing the air to vapor ratio, imo.
The first two links in my little experiment were macro pics of the unvaped herb.
I like your idea of before/after shots of the herb in the hot bowl to show the effects of conditioning it before vaping. (You can also see the difference in the trics from my first test of vaping fresh herb even at 160C or 320F). Conditioning would also ensure that the mj has decarboxylated from the acid into its active form.
The glow rods would not only be at a lower temp than a direct flame, but I assume that it would heat it gentler as well. Probably less particulate (and the PAHs on the particulate) in the smoke, imo.
Condensation occurs when a warm or hot air stream contacts a cooler surface. The temperature of the warmer air drops to its dew point at which there is 100% humidity (saturation). It's the price we pay for wanting our cooler, smoother tokes, but at least we can recover/recycle/reuse the resin!
Edit:
Marcuss/SometimesY:
I like to look at that 200C as the temperature at which mostly all types of THCs are completely boiled off. Keep in mind that there are different kinds of THC, it's not just one complex chemical. The delta number just designates where the double bond is found in the structure.
For example, I believe that delta-9 thc starts to volatilize (go from oil to vapor) as low as 140C up to completion at ~ 160C.
Also, these are volatile oils that we are vaporizing. They go into the vapor phase quite easily and do not require much exposure to the heat, even at lower vaping temperatures. As long as the air stream reaches the boiling point (or above) of any of the actives, they will release.
As I mentioned, thats an advantage of preconditioning your herb/bowl before vaping it. Ensures the herb is active and starts to melt the trics. If the AVB is a nice consistent brown color upon completion, you and your vape have done the job.
Filling bags faster or slower does affect it's properties, but more likely due to the flow rates of air changing the air to vapor ratio, imo.
Hennessy1414
Terrorist
BUNK WEBSITE!!! but the herbs they list make for a good read 
http://www.cheatingthehangman.net.au/hyper.html
http://www.cheatingthehangman.net.au/hyper.html