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The RBT Milaana (unregulated single 18650)

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by RastaBuddhaTao, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Greetings FC. The RBT Beta Team has been working behind the scene on the development of a single battery stealth unit using the Zion heater technology. After such great results with the Zion thread we are here even earlier in the development process with a review of the Alpha unit that is headed to @pakalolo. We have our thick skin on so don't be afraid to tell us what you think. Big things start with small seeds so please be bring the right amount of organic food and leave the BS for the other threads.

    Peace,
    RBT

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
  2. NickDlow

    NickDlow Log Hog

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    I guess BS isn't good fertilizer for growing:p

    Keep on innovating guys! I'll be keeping an eye on this ones progress. Good job.
     
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  3. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

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    Nice Vid. Man, Pak gets all the cool shit... I want blue leds on mine too. :)

    This does look really cool. Or hot I guess. It looks like you are needing both hands to operate it at this point. That's a lot of fingers on such a small object. I hope it can eventually work with one hand.

    Does it feel as free flowing with the 14MM as the Zion with 18MM?

    Stubbie? Really? Probably not... LOL
     
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  4. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Great kick off video RBT!

    I'm sure it could be operated with just a thumb, seems pretty stealth bc its already so small and can be fisted. I'm sure it'll just get more and more ergonomic, but already pretty solid.

    It'll be really cool with the led instead of the display, its going to get brighter as voltage rises right? Or change colors completely at different levels? I presume one color and brightness is easier, I agree blue would be nice, Firefly style actually, purple would be cool too

    Can't wait to hear Pak's take on it... Definitely the best place for an Alpha imo
     
  5. Adobewan

    Adobewan Well-Known Member

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    An indicator using a brightness scale considers our brethren with color blindness. That gets my vote.
     
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  6. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    Cannot wait to have my hands on this baby. Look like it could be small enough to palm, which is what I'm hoping for to fill my concert-vape needs. I like the LED idea -- not sure exactly what you're planning for placement and illumination, but don't forget the stealth angle. A bright light suddenly dousing your face tends to draw attention.
     
  7. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    721
    Yeh it will change in brightness with voltage. This will serve as a throttle indicator and battery indicator. I have it tuned so the first two draws are mostly terpenes and then after a stir two or three thicker clouds. The ability to reduction in the load chamber size after the stir but sliding the adjustable screen up is key . That way you form a medium density pack load with a concave form from your finger when you move the screen up. You just feel when the load touches your finger as you push the slide screen up. For a manual device running direct from battery it's pretty flat. These batteries have A long and stable midrange and the Zion heater technology really smooths it out. I think you can get the hang of it pretty easy as it's no where as touchy as some manual devices.

    I had a great PM from someone after reading this thread asking why we don't add temperature or power control to this product.

    We will in the future have fully featured single and two battery units... There might even be an app for that :). This unit is our Simplest offering in that we want a zero electronics offering that we can provide to customers in the $100 price point range. If we can tune this product so that it is easy to use and you can hand it to a newbie and they won't combust we think this is will be a great entry level vaporizer.

    We also look forward to units where we afford an expanded feature set. Ya never know when a custom designed PCB is in the works ;) now that the technology is maturing morphing it into different form factors will be fun. Wait until you see it do concentrates right @stickstones ?

    ... And yes it will have an easy button, size will smaller, shape more ergo etc. Really starting this design with a normally wouldn't show the public crapy prototype but look at the great feedback already starting!

    So yeh. Blue does seem to draw the least attention. Only one color but might try to get it to cut out at 3.5 volts at the battery. Just don't know if that will give the right intensity change for the voltage change so probably not. It really drops below 350 F at about 3.5 V so it was a natural cut-off. If it's on top and you can cover it easy (recessed) will that work? Then you can see it easy on top and hide it if you need to.

    ...and to carry over @Shit Snacks comments... Adding a stash compartment or storage for the mouthpiece makes it pretty big. You could add the mouthpiece storage and make it triangular. But then you need to add a lid etc. the plan was to have a padded wallet that would house glass jars for product and multiple stems... Different colors for different strains or short stealth ones or long cool ones but a separate wooden dugout for stash and stems would be cool retro? You could do one stem and stash and keep it really compact. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  8. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

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    That's what I'm waiting for!
     
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  9. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Oh we will be starting with a steam punk heavy copper button on this guy and @stickstones wants the feel to remain organic and wants a wooden design that more blends in. We are working on the wood design but still haven't found the right mechanism and look so ideas for the button are welcome. It needs to allow for the battery to be removed, needs to depress a contact onto the battery and ideally will lock in a safe position while keeping the battery in while in a pocket...

    Dab prototype next month lol Sounds like @stickstones just volunteered for Beta testing.
     
  10. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    Ah yes, blue led at top sounds perfect, you can cover it with you finger for stealth, and see by the brightness of your finger (or lift your finger slightly for the reflection) where you are.

    350 is a fine cutoff, but is it then not possible to take a higher temp hit at first with more preheat? Or combustion too risky that way? Now we all know I love temp stepping in Zion, but its versatility is key. Another concern is moving the screen back and forth on the fly, not so good for stealth perhaps? Would be nice to just find a good placement for your load size and leave it like I do with Ziggy, then I can do low cloud halfpacks or huge cloud fullpacks when/where ever (stirring if/when I see fit).

    Agreed adding a stash compartment would be more for the 18350 baby, since she's already so teenytiny. Also having a separate little wooden stash compartment for greens and browns could be a really nice add on accesory to offer, and yeah it could have slots for stems too, or just be smaller with only herb and separate stem storage in the wallet (which itself could probably store a vial or two aye?). Could be a few options, stem wallet, stem block, herb block, and stem/herb dugout block

    Although it would certainly have to be a bit bigger, I do quite like the idea of a version that is a triangle and has the stem storage on board (maybe even a stir stick multitool slot as well...) for more all in one. It's a feature I actually really enjoy with the Zion, something you could never do with the Air or Solo. Carrying herbs separate is more typical and non-issue, but having a stem storage makes sense since it is part of the vape essentially. The carry wallet should work really well, and not atypical, many likely prefer it I'm sure, but may be offering both options at some point is in order? ;)

    This line up is going to be huge RBT, can't wait to have a special Zionista for every occasion...:brow:
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
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  11. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

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    O
    oh yeah Dab prototype! That's what im talking about! I got 4 flavors in front of me right now! I can't wait for my Zion, but the concentrate vape really has my juices flowing. As of now my usage is 60% concentrates 40% flower.

    I can see the obsessive collector in me needing to own them all!
     
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  12. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    Perfect on the light! If you can easily conceal it during use, then that will work great.

    As for stash storage, etc., personally I think you should keep this one as small, compact, and simple as possible. I'm salivating over the idea of an on-demand convection vape that you can conceal fully in your palm (unlike the mflb) with just the stem poking out and that can deliver big rips (unlike the mflb). Anything that makes it harder to palm should be discarded, imo.

    I like the idea of a padded wallet to hold extra stems, but that could be bulky if trying to use as a quick-change kind of process. What about a cartridge concept? Something like the Firewood where you can prefill and cap a glass or mesh cartridge and store in the wallet for easy and stealthy exchange.
     
  13. DieHard

    DieHard Vertical transportation specialist.

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    The downside of a cart-load system is that it takes away from the universal adaptability of the GonG system.
     
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  14. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    Not if the cartridge is made to fit inside the 14mm male GonG.
     
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  15. Shit Snacks

    Shit Snacks Milaana. Lana. LANA. LAANAAAAAA

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    I think cartridge is better as an option, could be a fair amount more cleaning with more fine mesh pieces. I prefer as much glass as possible, as little mesh as possible.

    However, size wise the Elevape is on demand convection that fits hidden in palm (just has to be stirred in between hits depending on pack, and other potential issues for some...). It's a little fat, so not quite as good as say an Indica/mflb size, but still doable. I do think having small minimum as possible option is imperative, for a basic entry level and super stealth etc

    Hell we could even make this a four by four like Zion with stem storage slot, and herb storage slot the same size of the stem, deep enough for several bowls, just suck and pack. Seal with a cork and/or a magnetic wooden lid. Ok I think I just made a vapor dugout right there, whoops

    I think we also have to see what kind of corner rounding/sanding etc can be done as well, there are a lot of factors and I say let's try out every option to keep building up the ultimate versatility Zion has already established.

    Something for everyone (and everything for some!)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
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  16. Mulehead

    Mulehead Well-Known Member

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    If the 10 mm baby is out, this 14 mm single should stay as compact as possible IMO. When I use my current glass stem portable, I carry unit, stem, and herb containers in a camera bag that stores all.

    But this would be perfect for me, talk about stealth, as I'm a carpenter so I've always got wood! ;)
     
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  17. MikeInMiami

    MikeInMiami Well-Known Member

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    that's what I'm talking about!! I'd love to see a temp controlled Zion!
     
  18. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Doing the Manual and voltage controlled units first allow us to prove out the base heater technology. Then when we have it fully characterized and understood we will add more sophisticated controls where warranted. I am not yet convinced that temperature control buys you any more than the Zion currently delivers. Time will tell as we begin to explore the limits and capabilities of the heater technology. Not much in the way of complaints yet. I should have your unit in the mail tomorrow so you will soon see. It's been the backdrop for this weekends videos ;)

    @Mulehead I am thinking that the 10 mm might be impractical being so small. @HD Springer will give us his thoughts on the prototype soon so we will see.... Jury is still out on the 10 mm. I think the added battery life and improved vapor quality and. Over load size make the 14 mm most well rounded ride. Maybe 18350 high capacity with the 14 mm glass?

    With that said I agree with all. This one is going to stay 100% minimalist strip down in size and cost while delivering rapid convection with limited risk of combustion. But a integrated unit with stem and a cap could come in the future as we build in features on the base like voltage and possibly temperature control and integrated stem assent / PAX style. All in do time. This iteration aims at a &100 price point and needs to fit easily in your pocket as well as be stealth.

    With it's rectangular shape and offset short mouthpiece it really resembles an e-cig. Little e-juice and some wick material and it is an e-cig ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  19. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

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    4,631
    liking the looks of this. and where all of this could go. nice work RBT!
     
  20. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    So Pak and I had a 2+ hour Skype where he educated me on the FlashVape and we reviewed his alpha prototype that I sent him today. After optimizing the heater design the temperatures at 4.2 Volts can get past 420 F in about 7-8 seconds. On the low end at 3.5 Volts it takes a little preheat and a longer slow draw to get full vaporization but it easily doable. This suggest that no added circuitry will be needed other than a thermal fuse keeping things simple.

    Agree this unit is:
    Totally stripped down for stealth mode - minimal wood to maintain safe external temperatures.
    Low profile switch hardware that: fire button doubles as a Voltage throttle, can be locked in a safe position, battery change out in 5 seconds or less, lock stem in place for transit
    Blue LED that balances stealth with voltage change indication
    Stealth stem and long stem as standard
    Potential carry case with spot for spare battery, glass jar, mouth pieces unit?
    potential on-board stir?
    Offer multiple colors and exotic woods as an upgrade

    Potential improved feature unit:
    herb and mouthpiece compartments with a cap
    wooden button
    integrated stem

    So let me know what I missed or what you think needs debate.

    Impressive unit but not the beast that the Zion is. Sure, I clouds that I was blowing with it in the Beta Team video where impressive but NOT the producer that the Zion is... check the Vid on the the Zion thread ;) But no question this little bugger is the next best thing when you need to be away from your Zion.

    I cant wait to see what @pakalolo thinks of this little bugger.
     
  21. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v4.0a (unstable) Staff Member

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    Patience, little Grasshopper-killer. I like to get to know a device before I give my opinion. I look forward to getting to know Little Bugger.
     
  22. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    721
    Content Warning: the prior statement was solely the opinion of RBT an does not necessarily represent the views of one Mr. @pakalolo. Stay tuned for his expert review... explicit content warning May be required.
     
  23. VapourHaze

    VapourHaze Rexcornish on IG, Vaping since '02

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    Location:
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    Will performance be the same as zion but just shorter battery life? Or will performance/ power be sacrificed for size?
     
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  24. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

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    based on his video on the Zion thread, I would expect a slight difference in performance.
     
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  25. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

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    Similar performance but it will be tuned to a single optimum voltage rather than be adjustable like the Zion. However, the fire button will have a .2 Volt tactile throttle for a little overdrive when its needed. This sacrifice was necessary to maximize the stealth factor of this unit. The added simplicity will also allow us to reduce cost and maximize reliability. It will be interesting to see what @pakalolo thinks of the alpha unit as he is the master of manual vaporizers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015

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