The Pax and MFLB: a subjective comparison

[OF]

Not sure that I like this thread in the normal Vape Discussion board. Does this not lead to more comparison posts, why not have a post for every possible comparison?

My understanding is it's an experiment started by one of the Moderators. You and I can't start such a thread (which may be why there aren't a HUGE pile of them?).

IMO it addressed a very common comparison between the two vapes. Each of the individual threads was getting 'this vape is fine/OK/lame, I think the other one is better/hits harder/is more stealthy' and so on posts. Nobody's asking me, but I find this thread very interesting and useful. Kudos to Pak to the effort.

I'm also not so sure we need any more right now?

OF

 

[Ratm22]

Yes this is a good thread, just questioning the placement. Especially with the re-organization goin on.
This thread is more just personal preference, than a direct review of specific units. It was tedious reading reading as well.
In the other pax/ MFLB threads, do people not use comparisons? Is that not how most reviews work?
Maybe we should have a separate board called "My vapes better than your vape"

As programmer that's out of bud, I have nothing better to do than to browse the forum and question everything.

 

[MrNorml]

My understanding is it's an experiment started by one of the Moderators. You and I can't start such a thread (which may be why there aren't a HUGE pile of them?).

IMO it addressed a very common comparison between the two vapes. Each of the individual threads was getting 'this vape is fine/OK/lame, I think the other one is better/hits harder/is more stealthy' and so on posts. Nobody's asking me, but I find this thread very interesting and useful. Kudos to Pak to the effort.

I'm also not so sure we need any more right now?

OF

I would relish a thread comparing Pax and Solo as I find them much more similar than Pax/MFLB. Each of which I think is either fine or ok, or quite possibly lame, but better than the other in terms of hits and/or stealth than one another.

In the other pax/ MFLB threads, do people not use comparisons? Is that not how most reviews work?
Maybe we should have a separate board called "My vapes better than your vape"

As programmer that's out of bud, I have nothing better to do than to browse the forum and question everything.

Well, I do have to point out that if you are out of bud, your vape is NOT better than mine this moment! And since this thread is so short (at least currently) it isn't too tough to breeze through. Try doing that with Pax/Solo/MFLB and get ready to dedicate a month per vape just trying to read everything so when you post you don't get a blast of "Read the thread". An unfortunte result of not being able to sub-catagorize threads I guess...

mod note: Back-to-back posts, merged. Please use the Edit button, thanks.

 

[pakalolo]

Yes this is a good thread, just questioning the placement. Especially with the re-organization goin on.
This thread is more just personal preference, than a direct review of specific units. It was tedious reading reading as well.
In the other pax/ MFLB threads, do people not use comparisons? Is that not how most reviews work?
Maybe we should have a separate board called "My vapes better than your vape"

As programmer that's out of bud, I have nothing better to do than to browse the forum and question everything.

As you mention, the forum is under renovation and when there is a better place for this thread it will be moved. If you've read the thread then you should already know why it is placed where it is and why it was started in the first place. I thought the first post made it pretty clear that it wasn't a review of either vapourizer, even though that's not explicitly stated. The thread title itself should have tipped you off. Finally, it might be tedious for you but nobody is making you read it.

 

[Ratm22]

Sorry for giving my opinion but as you stated this is subjective, and I really didn't find it any more clear than just reading each separate board.

I am a stickler for organization, grouping and finding normalization. Just pointing out that this is an oddity.

I still love all the posts and contributions given. Long live FC.

 

[pakalolo]

Sorry for giving my opinion but as you stated this is subjective, and I really didn't find it any more clear than just reading each separate board.

I am a stickler for organization, grouping and finding normalization. Just pointing out that this is an oddity.

I still love all the posts and contributions given. Long live FC.

You don't have to apologize for stating your opinion (unless you're Canadian like me). I still don't think you understood the purpose of the thread. It wasn't meant to clarify anything. It was a list that I compiled for someone who was considering a Pax purchase to show the reason why I would buy the LB instead. This is all explained on the first page. The only reason it turned into a thread was the number of requests I got to make it one.

A thread like this doesn't have a current home, so yes, it sticks out like a sore thumb no matter where it is. If you read the thread then you know that I actually don't like threads like this. I think they have a high potential for flame wars. Given the loyalty of the Pax and LB fan bases, I'm still surprised that didn't happen.

Finally, if you have suggestions for improvement, note that we do have a forum for Community Discussion.

 

[Vicki]

Given the loyalty of the Pax and LB fan bases, I'm still surprised that didn't happen.

I think the reason it didn't happen is because we have mature members here. Also remember, age has nothing to do with maturity.

I still love my MFLB's.

 

[The Mighty Monarch]

I see the two being like an automatic vs a manual automobile. I used to drive a manual, but when I realized I wanted to be able to get where I wanted to go with as little effort and distractions as possible, I bought an automatic car. It's also nice to be able to let a friend drive your automatic without worrying about them screwing it up. That said, a manual is more efficient, more reliable, and of course allows a finer amount of control. If it wasn't obvious, Pax = automatic, LB = manual

Edit: there is in my eyes one significant advantage to the ridgid bottom oven that allows both easy stirring and crushing while in the oven. The irreplaceable trench screen is not something I like to aggressively stir or crush the load on

 

[ALBoldt]

Now that I've thought about it, if you pack it in you are forcing more material into contact with the heating surface. I therefore retract my statement that it has no effect at all. I still think it has nothing to do with conducting heat.

I prefer the MFLB as an all-around, but I still disagree with this.

The oven in the pax surrounds the material on all sides with a heated surface. The closer you are to a heated surface, the more energy is transferred. The density of the pax oven allows for a shorter distance between the herb and the wall.

 

[pakalolo]

I prefer the MFLB as an all-around, but I still disagree with this.

The oven in the pax surrounds the material on all sides with a heated surface. The closer you are to a heated surface, the more energy is transferred. The density of the pax oven allows for a shorter distance between the herb and the wall.

I think you misunderstand the discussion. We were discussing whether the material itself conducted heat. It does not to any significant degree. Plant material is a terrible conductor. As I said, you couldn't hold a joint if it wasn't.

 

[OF]

I think you misunderstand the discussion. We were discussing whether the material itself conducted heat. It does not to any significant degree. Plant material is a terrible conductor. As I said, you couldn't hold a joint if it wasn't.

I guess I'm also not comfortable with the 'surrounded by heat' idea. Doesn't the 'loaf' bake from the bottom up? Given the herb is a good insulator there's no real way to heat the cover except by overheating the stuff under it. Since the aspect ratio of the oven is broad and flat, in the end the bulk effect is a single hot surface (below) conducting heat upward.

Mind you I don't own a Pax, but I'm having a tough time with the idea a conduction vape is really an oven in this configuration. At least not an oven with even heat distribution.

OF

 

[pakalolo]

I guess I'm also not comfortable with the 'surrounded by heat' idea. Doesn't the 'loaf' bake from the bottom up? Given the herb is a good insulator there's no real way to heat the cover except by overheating the stuff under it. Since the aspect ratio of the oven is broad and flat, in the end the bulk effect is a single hot surface (below) conducting heat upward.

Mind you I don't own a Pax, but I'm having a tough time with the idea a conduction vape is really an oven in this configuration. At least not an oven with even heat distribution.

OF

I didn't want to go into that, but since you did...

The part of the oven cover that touches the load is metal and it does get hot. I'm not sure how much of the heating is from the flow of hot air and how much from contact with the heated sides of the oven, but for sure it doesn't contribute much to vapourization. If you bring it up to yellow (low, 188°C) and immediately pop off the oven cover, the surface is warm but not so hot you can't touch it. (I just did this to check.) The clincher is that if you examine the load after 3-4 hits, you can see that the bottom is much browner than the top. By the way, in case you didn't realize it, the oven is upside down from the loading position when you're hitting it. My comments assume that we're looking at it from the loading point of view.

The oven lid does get hotter the longer the heat is on, and of course the higher you set the temperature. I know that it gets so hot I don't want to touch it after being hit a few times at red (high, 210°C).

 

[OF]

The clincher is that if you examine the load after 3-4 hits, you can see that the bottom is much browner than the top. By the way, in case you didn't realize it, the oven is upside down from the loading position when you're hitting it. My comments assume that we're looking at it from the loading point of view.

Thanks, Pak, that's the way I was looking at it all right, upside down from when in use (the cover is then the bottom plate...). Fortunately for us heat doesn't pay attention to gravity in conduction or radiation. There is no up or down in that part of thermodynamics, only flow from hot to cold (cooler really). The cover has to be cooler than the bud just under it, which has hotter bud on the other side, with still hotter bud closer to the source and so on. All the bud in the load does not vape uniformly at the same time. Which is not fatal, but some might think it less than ideal? It does make 'fraction extraction' (pulling off THC and not CBD for example) neigh impossible. The temperature spread in the bowl is working against that.

Still the idea that everything in the oven is evenly heated can't be true seems to me. Schemes like Iolite would be more uniform I'd think. Stirring or otherwise mixing it often enough corrects this of course.

OF

 

[pakalolo]

Thanks, Pak, that's the way I was looking at it all right, upside down from when in use (the cover is then the bottom plate...). Fortunately for us heat doesn't pay attention to gravity in conduction or radiation. There is no up or down in that part of thermodynamics, only flow from hot to cold (cooler really). The cover has to be cooler than the bud just under it, which has hotter bud on the other side, with still hotter bud closer to the source and so on. All the bud in the load does not vape uniformly at the same time. Which is not fatal, but some might think it less than ideal? It does make 'fraction extraction' (pulling off THC and not CBD for example) neigh impossible. The temperature spread in the bowl is working against that.

Still the idea that everything in the oven is evenly heated can't be true seems to me. Schemes like Iolite would be more uniform I'd think. Stirring or otherwise mixing it often enough corrects this of course.

OF

Yes, stirring does help. This is a lot more complicated though, because a fully vaped load in the Pax can be turned pretty uniformly deep brown without stirring. I don't want to go into it because as I've said before, I'm on the hook to review the Pax so I have to avoid stealing my own thunder. (That's a teaser.) I need to do more testing.

 

[CuttyBuddy]

Sorry guys didn't really read through the thread, just wanted to drop in and direct you to a video I made that compares mflb vs The Pax and Atmos Raw. So it might help:

 

[pakalolo]

Sorry guys didn't really read through the thread, just wanted to drop in and direct you to a video I made that compares mflb vs The Pax and Atmos Raw. So it might help:

[video omitted]

That was an interesting comparison. Where can you find a Pax for $200?

Your sticking mouthpiece is a cleaning issue. You need to clean the mouthpiece stem and also down around the spring and retraction mechanism. There are quite a few posts in the Pax thread now explaining how to do this, including this hint that you might find handy soon if your video is any indication:

Get a hair dryer and run it along the mouth piece on a warm setting for a few moments. That should warm things up and cause the mouthpiece to become unstuck.

As for your uneven ABV comment about the LB, that won't happen if your grind is fine enough and you shake the LB between hits. If your stuff hangs together in a loaf, flip it or dump it out and crumble it.

The Pax will give you uneven ABV too, depending on how you use it. Remember the Pax is cooking whenever that green light is on regardless of whether you're hitting or not. It's a conduction oven so the material in contact with the wall naturally will brown up first. If you set it on low (yellow) and space out your hits, especially over multiple sessions, you'll get uneven ABV unless you stir it.

 

[CuttyBuddy]

Whoa the Pax temp just goes up up and away....doesn't stop. Man.

 

[OF]

Whoa the Pax temp just goes up up and away....doesn't stop. Man.

Bummer. The technical term for that condition is "is broke". When closed loop systems (like Pax) go open loop (no feedback/control) it's not a good thing usually. Might be time for a trip to the shop?

OF

 

[CuttyBuddy]

The problem is the avb just gets darker & darker regardless of low med or high. Grrrrrr. Vaporizers are fickle man.

 

[ShipDit]

Cool discussion,definatly gives a kinda different perspective on these two.
I own a MFLB,and my friend has a Pax so I have tried both. For me it's a matter of analog vs. digital. iPods and other such devices are just so....sexy,and they play the same music as a turntable. But any audiophile can tell you that vinyl just sounds better. Please don't take this as a slam on the Pax,I would LOVE to own one someday soon. Until that day comes, I'll be chilling with my "old tech" Launch box with some old school Black Sabbath played on an "obsolete" turntable. And I will enjoy every Goddamned second!

 

[doobiedaddy]

I've been following the Pax closely. It looks amazing. I need to try one. But there is something about the low tech MFLB that is hard to describe. It just produces a nice, well rounded high for me - good mood, a bit of a body high, nice head high. Other vaporizers seem to produce a more "mono" high, great in some areas but missing the well rounded experience that one gets from combusting. I think I will always have a soft spot for my MFLB, no matter what high tech devices come on the market.

Also, sometimes lowtech is best. The other day my MFLB batteries bit the dust on me and wouldn't hold a charge. I just grabbed some AA NIMH batteries i had laying around, removed the plastic cover to get bare metal, charged them up and was back in action in no time.

 

[Pcpvapors]

Not to resurrect a stagnant thread, I however have been playing with the MFLB with the new "glyph" batteries and for the past couple weeks I have done a temporary swap with a buddy to try his pax. The following comments are from my PERSONAL experience with each device.

Pax: I like that for use there's no moving parts (push/pull batteries etc). The battery life is ok, the battery will last long enough that a cleaning is necessary to have it performing optimally.

Performance wise, I'm really not blown away, the little man in my head definitely isn't screaming "wow this is miles better gotta have one!".

My bitches about the pax: what's really really aggravating in my experience is the thing is sleek but also slick, in the sense that I've had it slip out of my hands. Now normally I could careless about this, but the damn oven seems to pop open more often than not when it hits the floor the desk what have you. There's nothin shittier than picking up herbs outta carpet. The cleaning is both a blessing and a curse. It's nice to be able to fully clean however the rate at which is gets stickied up is kinda shitty, (personally I'd rather carry an extra battery than a qtip and iso to an extended outting).

My Mflb thoughts really don't differ a whole lot more than what's already been said, I feel the glyph batteries provide more run time than the old powerex 2400's, I've experienced a quicker heat up as well. A battery usually gets me through most days unless I've really been abusing my hands.

Final words: I'm not a "cloud" guy by any means, I don't give a damn if I'm blowing rainbow colored clouds that are shaped like unicorns, if it medicates than that's all that matters to me.

 

[brandonisbrown]

I realize that there are countless posts with this very topic but as an owner and user of both I came to say some things that weren't said in other posts. These are my personal conclusions and you will be 100% satisfied with either one.

Warranty:
If you want something that lasts forever, go with the MFLB. I have warrantied a couple boxes from them and they are super nice about everything. Seriously, you can't go wrong here.
However, on the other hand, the pax warranty system is crummy and wont even replace the expensive unit if a battery is damaged due to overcharging (Corporate america, hooray)

Concentrate Use: Using concentrates out of vapes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its such a shame the pax does not support them, when the flight box happily does.

Cleaning: The pax is easy to clean, all these guides may make it seem difficult, however, its super easy and you can do it with a stick that fits in the pax tube, qtips, and ribbing alchohol. Thats it. All the MFLB needs is that little brush and maybe some rubbing alchohol. Pax needs to be cleaned after id say probably 5 or 6 trenches, I have done 15 trenches without cleaning and its totally fine too, just keep an eye on it.

Waterpipe use: On the contrary to everyone saying its hard to use the pax in a waterpipe, all you have to do is make a hand puppet over the hole and literally put the pax in its mouth.

For the flight box, even without the waterpipe adapter, it is still super easy to use and ill let you guys figure that one out because its truly simple.

Effectiveness: The pax may go through herb like nobody's business, but none is wasted. My friends and I call the pax the destroyer of worlds because it gets you so nice so consistently. Especially if used out of a waterpipe, 3 hits and you will be ripped. The trench is always used up nicely and it never wastes.
The flight box is lacking in no field here. Even with the heat on the higher range the box takes forever to kill trenches, (for better or worse). And when you want to have a quick session before work it usually takes about 5 minutes or so from all the shuffling of bud and how much I personally have to use it before getting to where I want to be. However, there is one thing that is worse. When using the box hit after hit after hit out of a waterpipe with the battery only plugged in for around 8-10 seconds the herb often times catches on fire. That is the only downfall to the box imo.

Battery Life: The pax battery definitely lasts longer than the mflb, and its inside the unit. The pax is more convenient for charging as well in my opinion.

Public Use: First off, Many times have my parents seen the pax and had no idea what it is and did not touch it. I feel totally comfortable taking hits out of it when im at a party or in a parking lot because even if you feel sketched out, for all anyone else knows you're in love with a piece of aluminum. Its not just the older generation, this thing is great for stealth because noone knows what it is and if you are outside the smell isnt really noticeable unless you come close.

Smell: I have flightboxed in my living room on thanksgiving and noone smelled anything but burnt popcorn. The box truly does not smell like weed. The Pax, without proper cleaning, smells some sort of awful stench from the traces of herb left that keep getting heated over and over. However, the pax also smells when clean, Its mostly an outdoor/spoof kind of thing if you want the smell to be gone. What works well for me is when you use it just stand by a window and blow it out, room will be 95% fine afterwards.

Comments: I like how the flight box has a power adapter, but really? 70 dollars and I still have to be by an outlet or a car? To get down to bare bones for some of you, which will get you higher. The pax definitely wins by a hair, however, the flight box although as hippie as it looks will get you smacked as well. Vaporizers are my favorite way of medicating and I will never go back. My pax had broken around two weeks ago and now I only have my MFLB. Ploom wouldn't warranty my pax because i purchased it off amazon even though the serial numbers matched up, very disappointing in that, however I would buy the pax all over again. Its truly an amazing piece and should be in everyone collection. For overall value, the MFLB is the best just by a hair, as its guaranteed for your life and it will do everything you want it to. Its truly a hard tossup because they are both fantastic. All about the price: 250 vs 119.

Bonus Divinci vape thoughts: This is one of the worst vapes I have personally used. Even those ones that you have to heat up with lighters are better than this. The thing looks like something out of a racecar, and the draws are not nice. The tube is way too big and you have to pull so slowly through this massive tube and it feels awkward as hell. Even with the waterpipe attachment, it did not preform as I wished. I played with the temperature and went from 385-420 and some numbers inbetween. I never got the clouds I wanted out of the vape even when used with a waterpipe. Im no beginner to vapes so I know it wasn't fault of my own that there were no clouds.

 

[Wizsteve]

I compiled this list a while ago. I made it to show someone who said he was probably buying the Pax as his next vapourizer. I was reluctant to post it publicly because, first and foremost, I thought it would incite a religious war and maybe result in a lynch mob at my door.

Perhaps unwisely, I then mentioned it in the Pax thread and immediately received several requests to see it or to start a thread like this one. I consulted my fellow mods and not having received an objection, here's your thread. I recuse myself from moderation here, but it will be watched closely by other mods because as I said, the potential for inflamed passions is high.

The second reason was that I felt some people would immediately declare I was not qualified to judge the Pax, not having used one. I don't feel that someone who does proper research is disqualified from commenting. For the record, this comparison was of interest to me so I did research and have discussed the Pax privately with some owners. The Pax information was taken from those discussions and from comments in the Pax thread, usually from several users.

As the thread title states, this list is subjective. You might choose other comparison points. Some points are factual, like the price comparison. Others are statements of opinion, like the way I feel about the designers.

Last, I do not hate the Pax, I just wouldn't buy one. I would love to try one though. Anyone who wants to send me theirs can PM for my mailing address.
i don't hate the mflb but wouldn't buy one, but would try one but i wont ask lol no one going to send one to me lol, honestly i liked there beta tube one if they still made those i buy one

Pax: Heats until turned off, goes to standby heating after 30 seconds without detecting movement, walking or even driving in a car prevents this.
LB: Stops heating as soon as battery is removed.
this isn't a problem push mouth piece down turns off ,and you really should not vape while driving lol

Pax: Exterior gets fairly warm at oven end, can be uncomfortable to hold.
LB: Exterior never gets hot.
not true even using on high it just gets warm on the outside

Pax: Oven takes a while to cool down and continues to cook meanwhile.
LB: Screen cools down within a few seconds of removing the battery, no unwanted cooking.

this isn't a problem push mouth piece down turns off draw with mouthpiece down while cooling

Pax: Has a huge oven that manufacturer says should be tightly packed, at least .25g and I've read as much as .4g.
LB: A full trench is about .1g, maybe .2g if really fine grind and overfilled. Handles much smaller loads nicely.*

* I realize those after big hits see this as a plus. I don't.
there are ways around this for small loads double screens pads or even those glass jacks

Pax: Three selectable temperatures.
LB: Any temperature I like up to combustion, controlled by technique.
no learning curve needed with the pax

Pax: Difficult to connect to water filtration.
LB: Can easily be connected to water filtration, even without buying the WPA.
yep one should buy extra mouthpieces but once made nothing to it.

Pax: Uses internal Li-Ion battery that requires return to the manufacturer for replacement.
LB: Uses NiMH batteries that I can buy at the corner store.
they can be replaced by user if you have the tools can even be upgraded by using a better battery

Pax: Has a proprietary charger that needs an outlet.
LB: Uses a standard charger I can buy almost anywhere.
not true few mods listed in the forum that work camcorder battery thingy comes to mind.

Pax: Needs the charger once the Li-Ion battery is depleted.
LB: I can carry an extra battery--or six.
one can carry the camcorder battery too ,however battery doesn't die after 3 to 4 hits like the lb

Pax: Has a draw like a milkshake that gets worse with use
LB: Vapor forms almost in your mouth, one technique for big hits is to inhale gently only through the nose
What? no thats not true at all lol milkshake ? pax is very easy to draw from to get worse with use means they let the path way get gunked up and a razor foil can be used instead of there screen

Pax: Burns the lips easily
LB: Does not
False lol Pax does not burn your lips

 

[howie105]

Having used both Pax and LB, I say this:

The LB with batts is disappointing. No balls. That's the reason I bought the Pax.

The LB with the PA rocks, and is my go-to for some gourmet vaping. If I had a $1000 bud, I would enjoy it on the LB with PA.

The Pax (for me) is used when I'm travelling / hiking / biking because I can load a small or large oven and I'm good for quite a while. The Pax has much more power than the LB with batts, and I find this is great when I'm on the go.

willieR, I wouldn't say you are a MFLB hater. More like a Pax lover. I would say that you don't always appear to be fully objective. Can't knock a guy for loving his vape, but let's face it. You've been the single biggest cheerleader the Pax has, and I personally have to factor that in when I read your great posts.

In all honesty I ripped that off from another poster with just a name change. Extra points if you can guess who?