little maggie
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the responses. Dan said that we can always add the high heater later on but I realized that I will be unhappy if I don't have both even though I may never use the high heater mod.
The Nomad From Morwood
- Thread starter Dan Morrison
- Start date
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
Fixed that for ya Sixstring! (excepting the combustion)
Heh so true! Sometimes you get wonderful and effortless sessions with the high power module... until you screw up and get the impression your load is cached after only 3 small hits, when you know it's clearly not... it's just that it's roasted and the taste is spoiled!
On the other hand it's wonderful with the low power module... until you realize you've been just sucking lukewarm air for five minutes and get little to no vapor. So you insist, thinking you're drawing too fast, but nope, you still struggle... then you remove the cell and realize it's well below 3V on the tester!
Maybe there is a case for a medium heater as well?
Would that be 'over-egging the pudding', What do you guys think?
Xelatsok
vapes tobacco modding the vapes
Same as swapping batteries.A question for the first batch owners, how easy is it to switch the heater module from low to high?
Thanks!
No, I haven’t.
@Ramahs , No need for a cool-down period. The heater modules can be handled at any time during a session. The very tip might be hot, but cools in seconds, the PEEK insulator end will barely get warm.
______________________________
So, based on some feedback I've been getting from the first batch, I wanted to address the wearing of the chiyogami papers on the sleeves.
It seems like each paper behaves differently. Those with more metallic inks might notice the metallic inks wear quicker than the non-metallics. The lacquered-yuzen is the most durable paper type, the katazome-shi paper is somewhere in the middle.
The chiyogami and katazome-shi are printed on white papers. The katazome-shi is printed on light brown paper.
Even though I tested the first batch sleeves, and thought them to be durable enough... real world daily handling has proven the sleeves to wear faster than I expected.
SO, I've been working on a solution to this so that I can implement the fixes for batch 2 onwards.
I must have done hundreds of tests by now... but one thing is clear. Wear cannot be completely halted. Even thick film finishes will wear over time, especially at the edges.
So, the best case scenario is to embrace any future wear by making it look as natural and beautiful as possible.
The original sleeves will wear through to the pure white, absorbent, fuzzy, paper. I'd like to avoid this.
So, I have come up with a way to soak the paper in natural shellac and alcohol. Shellac is a food safe wood finish and dye. It soaks into the fibers of the paper completely, making it translucent, and toning it to the same brown color as the kraft paper laminate. The paper is also much less absorbent and fuzzy.
When the shellac-infused paper wears, it will wear through the ink to the translucent shellac/paper, revealing a nice brown-toned surface that won't pick up stains or dirt. It appears as if the ink is cleanly wearing away to reveal the kraft paper underneath.
Of course, this changes the colour of some papers, as it gives the ink a brown background instead of a white one. The papers with heavy applications of ink will not be affected much, so far I actually like the more subdued look of the shellac-toned paper, gives the over-all look a more organic vibe.
Papers that have lots of white, or use the base paper itself as part of the white coloured elements, will be very much changed.
Here are some paper samples. The raw untreated sample on the left, and the shellac on the right.
This katazome-shi sample will be changed more due to the more translucent inks used for these designs.
Most papers with white elements are actually white ink, and so will block the shellac from changing the white tone.
Some papers with a lot of white use the raw paper as the white for the image, like the wave patterned papers. You can see how much of an effect the shellac has on this blue wave. I actually really like the effect! But some people may not...
With the protective top-coat, things get much more complicated. With the first batch of Nomads I opted for a thin coat of clear acrylic to try to hit the perfect balance between tactile feel and protection.
I think that going forward it would be a good idea to move more towards the protection side.
But before going down that rabbit hole, I thought I would get some feedback on the first half of the solution, the shellac infused paper, thoughts?
For batch 2'ers, I'll be contacting you in a week or so if you have a paper that will be significantly changed by the shellac, to first get the go-ahead with the aesthetic change.
______________________________
So, based on some feedback I've been getting from the first batch, I wanted to address the wearing of the chiyogami papers on the sleeves.
It seems like each paper behaves differently. Those with more metallic inks might notice the metallic inks wear quicker than the non-metallics. The lacquered-yuzen is the most durable paper type, the katazome-shi paper is somewhere in the middle.
The chiyogami and katazome-shi are printed on white papers. The katazome-shi is printed on light brown paper.
Even though I tested the first batch sleeves, and thought them to be durable enough... real world daily handling has proven the sleeves to wear faster than I expected.
SO, I've been working on a solution to this so that I can implement the fixes for batch 2 onwards.
I must have done hundreds of tests by now... but one thing is clear. Wear cannot be completely halted. Even thick film finishes will wear over time, especially at the edges.
So, the best case scenario is to embrace any future wear by making it look as natural and beautiful as possible.
The original sleeves will wear through to the pure white, absorbent, fuzzy, paper. I'd like to avoid this.
So, I have come up with a way to soak the paper in natural shellac and alcohol. Shellac is a food safe wood finish and dye. It soaks into the fibers of the paper completely, making it translucent, and toning it to the same brown color as the kraft paper laminate. The paper is also much less absorbent and fuzzy.
When the shellac-infused paper wears, it will wear through the ink to the translucent shellac/paper, revealing a nice brown-toned surface that won't pick up stains or dirt. It appears as if the ink is cleanly wearing away to reveal the kraft paper underneath.
Of course, this changes the colour of some papers, as it gives the ink a brown background instead of a white one. The papers with heavy applications of ink will not be affected much, so far I actually like the more subdued look of the shellac-toned paper, gives the over-all look a more organic vibe.
Papers that have lots of white, or use the base paper itself as part of the white coloured elements, will be very much changed.
Here are some paper samples. The raw untreated sample on the left, and the shellac on the right.
This katazome-shi sample will be changed more due to the more translucent inks used for these designs.
Most papers with white elements are actually white ink, and so will block the shellac from changing the white tone.
Some papers with a lot of white use the raw paper as the white for the image, like the wave patterned papers. You can see how much of an effect the shellac has on this blue wave. I actually really like the effect! But some people may not...
With the protective top-coat, things get much more complicated. With the first batch of Nomads I opted for a thin coat of clear acrylic to try to hit the perfect balance between tactile feel and protection.
I think that going forward it would be a good idea to move more towards the protection side.
But before going down that rabbit hole, I thought I would get some feedback on the first half of the solution, the shellac infused paper, thoughts?
For batch 2'ers, I'll be contacting you in a week or so if you have a paper that will be significantly changed by the shellac, to first get the go-ahead with the aesthetic change.
Kalessin
Well-Known Member
I like the look of the infused paper, but I had a heavily inked paper anyway so I doubt it will change much on mine.@Ramahs , No need for a cool-down period. The heater modules can be handled at any time during a session. The very tip might be hot, but cools in seconds, the PEEK insulator end will barely get warm.
______________________________
So, based on some feedback I've been getting from the first batch, I wanted to address the wearing of the chiyogami papers on the sleeves.
It seems like each paper behaves differently. Those with more metallic inks might notice the metallic inks wear quicker than the non-metallics. The lacquered-yuzen is the most durable paper type, the katazome-shi paper is somewhere in the middle.
The chiyogami and katazome-shi are printed on white papers. The katazome-shi is printed on light brown paper.
Even though I tested the first batch sleeves, and thought them to be durable enough... real world daily handling has proven the sleeves to wear faster than I expected.
SO, I've been working on a solution to this so that I can implement the fixes for batch 2 onwards.
I must have done hundreds of tests by now... but one thing is clear. Wear cannot be completely halted. Even thick film finishes will wear over time, especially at the edges.
So, the best case scenario is to embrace any future wear by making it look as natural and beautiful as possible.
The original sleeves will wear through to the pure white, absorbent, fuzzy, paper. I'd like to avoid this.
So, I have come up with a way to soak the paper in natural shellac and alcohol. Shellac is a food safe wood finish and dye. It soaks into the fibers of the paper completely, making it translucent, and toning it to the same brown color as the kraft paper laminate. The paper is also much less absorbent and fuzzy.
When the shellac-infused paper wears, it will wear through the ink to the translucent shellac/paper, revealing a nice brown-toned surface that won't pick up stains or dirt. It appears as if the ink is cleanly wearing away to reveal the kraft paper underneath.
Of course, this changes the colour of some papers, as it gives the ink a brown background instead of a white one. The papers with heavy applications of ink will not be affected much, so far I actually like the more subdued look of the shellac-toned paper, gives the over-all look a more organic vibe.
Papers that have lots of white, or use the base paper itself as part of the white coloured elements, will be very much changed.
Here are some paper samples. The raw untreated sample on the left, and the shellac on the right.
This katazome-shi sample will be changed more due to the more translucent inks used for these designs.
Most papers with white elements are actually white ink, and so will block the shellac from changing the white tone.
Some papers with a lot of white use the raw paper as the white for the image, like the wave patterned papers. You can see how much of an effect the shellac has on this blue wave. I actually really like the effect! But some people may not...
With the protective top-coat, things get much more complicated. With the first batch of Nomads I opted for a thin coat of clear acrylic to try to hit the perfect balance between tactile feel and protection.
I think that going forward it would be a good idea to move more towards the protection side.
But before going down that rabbit hole, I thought I would get some feedback on the first half of the solution, the shellac infused paper, thoughts?
For batch 2'ers, I'll be contacting you in a week or so if you have a paper that will be significantly changed by the shellac, to first get the go-ahead with the aesthetic change.
seriousTone
Well-Known Member
Your attention to detail is impressive
Vapeur Rogue
Est. 2013- Never Lookin' Back
So-
I have yet to be in a batch formally- but just wanted to check in and thank Dan for attention to wear detailing. My personal vote is for whatever design changes will protect and support the device for the long haul.
I have yet to be in a batch formally- but just wanted to check in and thank Dan for attention to wear detailing. My personal vote is for whatever design changes will protect and support the device for the long haul.
Looks fine for most... excepted the white waves... which of course happen to be the design I chose heh! I would have selected something else then, as yellow waves evoke a sea of p...
It definitely looks more yellow in the photos... heh.. IRL it's the same tone as the kraft. I do get your point though! It definitely changes things.
Here is a test sample of what the wear will now look like. This sleeve was heavily abused and sanded hard on the entire surface to approximate heavy use...
This sleeve was coated with several coats of shellac, then sanded to a smooth satin surface. It's the only thick film finish I've tested that still looks natural, and feels good in the hand.
You can see where the paper wore through to the kraft that there is no white showing, or frayed paper edges.
I also imagine that the first batch people are wondering what they can do to their sleeves to help reduce the wear of their papers.
Those with Katazome-shi already have a brown-toned paper underneath their ink, and so the wear should be similar to the shellac-toned paper.
A wax can be used to help protect the paper from wear, but will require re-application often, depending on use. I can send out the correct wax, free of charge to anyone interested. Any beeswax or carnauba blended wax will work for this. Application is a simple wipe on - buff off. In my tests it increased abrasion resistance of raw paper substantially. This does not alter the look of the paper.
I would like to offer a re-covering service to anyone who wants their sleeve recovered in paper (with added shellac and thick protective finish), or a new covering of milk paint or different paper. Anyone interested in this service would have to send in their Nomad sleeve only.
Also open to suggestions, always learning over here!
Mr. Whitewall
Well-Known Member
Aww, the Great Wave was also my choice! 
Maybe we can change it for a red Konami wave?
Seems it would look nice even with discolouration, making a gold/red contrast... What do you think @Dan Morrison ?
Another idea would be, depending on the cost of each cover, to be able to buy up to, say three covers? An EDC, a Gala and a "something in between" model???
Maybe we can change it for a red Konami wave?
Seems it would look nice even with discolouration, making a gold/red contrast... What do you think @Dan Morrison ?
Another idea would be, depending on the cost of each cover, to be able to buy up to, say three covers? An EDC, a Gala and a "something in between" model???
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
I'm good with that level of 'weathering', it's kinda how I thought the aesthetic was from the beginning.It definitely looks more yellow in the photos... heh.. IRL it's the same tone as the kraft. I do get your point though! It definitely changes things.
Here is a test sample of what the wear will now look like. This sleeve was heavily abused and sanded hard on the entire surface to approximate heavy use...
This sleeve was coated with several coats of shellac, then sanded to a smooth satin surface. It's the only thick film finish I've tested that still looks natural, and feels good in the hand.
You can see where the paper wore through to the kraft that there is no white showing, or frayed paper edges.
I also imagine that the first batch people are wondering what they can do to their sleeves to help reduce the wear of their papers.
Those with Katazome-shi already have a brown-toned paper underneath their ink, and so the wear should be similar to the shellac-toned paper.
A wax can be used to help protect the paper from wear, but will require re-application often, depending on use. I can send out the correct wax, free of charge to anyone interested. Any beeswax or carnauba blended wax will work for this. Application is a simple wipe on - buff off. In my tests it increased abrasion resistance of raw paper substantially. This does not alter the look of the paper.
I would like to offer a re-covering service to anyone who wants their sleeve recovered in paper (with added shellac and thick protective finish), or a new covering of milk paint or different paper. Anyone interested in this service would have to send in their Nomad sleeve only.
Also open to suggestions, always learning over here!
Dont get me wrong, I dont want a short lived sleeve, but I don't personally mind the Mad-Max look (in fact I like it a lot!).
As long as the sleeve doesn't fall apart 'prematurely' I'm good.
(And I don't believe these are gonna fall apart).
Ramahs
Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
So excited to get the email! But now I have to wait a week to find out of my number gets called from the lottery
Me too. I'm excited!
Mr. Whitewall
Well-Known Member
Same!
...If it doesn't happen, well at least I'd have all the details worked out and be totally sure to be in for next batch.
CL52613
Well-Known Member
As he has always shown, Dan's attention to detail, and concerns for customer satisfaction, is second to none. To have taken the time to show us the differences of the papers is just another example of this. Can you imagine any other business doing this? Some might have said the added process would improve wearability with a slight change in some colors, but it is a trade-off, and the decision is to improve wearability. Again a personal thank you to Dan for being so concerned for our satisfaction. If I had my druthers, I would have liked the cap to be attachable using the screw for the contact bar and the sleeve a purely ornamental option. Being severely challenged with hand dexterity issues, the sleeve is still somewhat worrisome. Dan has offered to adjust the fit, but also being marginally ocd, I know this would definitely drive me to distraction, lol. Heck the redesign of the screw for the contact bar will be beyond my ability to use without a pair pliers. So for me, the cap with pins for alignment and stability, and contact bar screw with countersink in cap would be ideal. Still, nothing can be all things for all people, so like life, we learn to make adjustments. I am grateful Dan is so accomodating and humble, which is a rare quality among those so talented.
Mr. Whitewall
Well-Known Member
I am a recreational Scuba diver, somewhat in retirement, but the love of the Sea is still present.
I had a big concern about the abalone which Dan solved in the most professional and amiable way possible.
Most others would be focused about ramping up production, sales, etc, but Dan really took the time to address all of my concerns and I am really grateful for that, he is also an artisan in CS it seems!
I had a big concern about the abalone which Dan solved in the most professional and amiable way possible.
Most others would be focused about ramping up production, sales, etc, but Dan really took the time to address all of my concerns and I am really grateful for that, he is also an artisan in CS it seems!
Vaporware
Well-Known Member
It definitely looks more yellow in the photos... heh.. IRL it's the same tone as the kraft. I do get your point though! It definitely changes things.
Here is a test sample of what the wear will now look like. This sleeve was heavily abused and sanded hard on the entire surface to approximate heavy use...
This sleeve was coated with several coats of shellac, then sanded to a smooth satin surface. It's the only thick film finish I've tested that still looks natural, and feels good in the hand.
You can see where the paper wore through to the kraft that there is no white showing, or frayed paper edges.
I also imagine that the first batch people are wondering what they can do to their sleeves to help reduce the wear of their papers.
Those with Katazome-shi already have a brown-toned paper underneath their ink, and so the wear should be similar to the shellac-toned paper.
A wax can be used to help protect the paper from wear, but will require re-application often, depending on use. I can send out the correct wax, free of charge to anyone interested. Any beeswax or carnauba blended wax will work for this. Application is a simple wipe on - buff off. In my tests it increased abrasion resistance of raw paper substantially. This does not alter the look of the paper.
I would like to offer a re-covering service to anyone who wants their sleeve recovered in paper (with added shellac and thick protective finish), or a new covering of milk paint or different paper. Anyone interested in this service would have to send in their Nomad sleeve only.
Also open to suggestions, always learning over here!
I think it works well for this paper, but I prefer things like the wave with a lot of white in their original colors. Have you worn one of these with the original paper color, or do you have evidence from users with papers like that of how they will wear?
I imagine those wouldn’t look bad wearing to white, but am I wrong or missing something?
I don’t dislike the altered versions and maybe I’d like them more in person, but I do like blue (and white where appropriate) and in the couple of images that started out blue and/or white so far all of those colors seem to be...significantly more altered.
I don’t want to create a lot more work for you, but if you’ve already done some testing on the lighter papers maybe you could share the results? Do they just look bad when the white paper is exposed and then randomly stained through use?
I do like a lot of the darker designs with the shellacked papers though, and the wear on that looks great!
HerbieVonVapster
Well-Known Member
Looks like my sleeve design stood up well to the tests. Still wouldn't mind trying some wax. Think you could include some when you send the less tension spring or magnets?
So often I find that working with everyone here pushes me to try new things and approach my projects from a different perspective... I don't feel like I'm 'allowing' the collaboration...but rather.. I'm lucky to have it!
Case in point.. I have been thinking about the white coloured papers, and I do think there should be a colourless option for the paper treatment and coating.
So I did come up with a method. Watering down the acrylic polymer and saturating the paper then hanging to dry. The paper acts the same as the shellac infused paper, except without any change in colour. The paper wears white, which I do think looks fine with the light-toned papers... but because its been infused with acrylic.. it wears with less fuzzyness, and the underlaying paper is much more stain resistant.
So, there we go, two options now.
As for top coat. I think that the dark papers benefit from a thick shellac, because of the superior protection and hand feel. But the light papers will have to get the acrylic, which gives the same level of protection as the shellac...but feels more like plastic. A trade-off for retaining the pure white colour.