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The Magic-Flight Box

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, May 16, 2009.

  1. Zingbuddah

    Zingbuddah Vaporologist

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    Location:
    Earth

    Yeah....they are like Tribbles....I had one, then two....now I have four.

    ..and two are NIB...preparing for a potential vape-pocalypse...
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  2. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

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    4,767
    Location:
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    We have a Tribble, we had it neutered! Problem solved! :) As for MFLB's, that's a different story. I'm up to 4 now! :lol:
    RUDE BOY and Zingbuddah like this.
  3. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    If the new batteries are Maha Powerex 2700s then what makes them different from the old ones as IIRC they were also the Powerex 2700s?

    Another pet peeve I have is will they redesign the lid to keep ground up herb in the trench sealed so when traveling with the MFLB in the black bag in your pocket, the herb doesn't leak out? As it is now, when I have it in a car for example, I'd have it wrapped in the black bag but have to feel around like Hellen Keller to feel for the wire loop and make sure that stays on top as once it gets turned upside down, the herb will spill on the underside of the clear plastic cover and will eventually work it's way under the lid especially if it is ground very fine. Any possibility of the trench area be partitioned off better to prevent herb spillage out of the trench?
  4. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

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    4,767
    Location:
    Milky Way Galaxy
    The new batteries aren't 2700's. I believe they are rated around 2400, and they are LSD.

    Magic Flight came out with a locking lid later on in their production. You must have an older model that came with a rubber band to hold the lid in place.
    OF likes this.
  5. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    I went back to April here and all the responses seem to say the new batteries were 2700s which I am assuming are the Powerex cells. From what you say, it sounds like they are using the Immedions which are also Maha's and are 2400mAh LSD. I wonder though why when they originally used Sanyo Eneloops in the early models why they went with the Powerex 2700s when the Immedion 2400 LSD cells were available at that time?

    Mine is the 2012 model with the locking lid. While it does help a little, if it is in your pocket I have had the lid swing agar and it seems like it has loosened up quite a bit since it was new. Even still if I were to wrap a rubber band around it, it wouldn't prevent finely ground herb from still working it's way from in between the plastic lid and the wooden top as there is not a secure seal around the circumference of the lid like I was hoping they might incorporate on a future upgrade to avoid this problem I am having.

  6. Look no further, the LB is where it's at. I bought mine a little less than a year ago and it has quickly become the only vape I use because of it's efficiency, ease of use, and portability.
    axakal likes this.
  7. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    The new batteries (with the logo on the bottom) are custom made for MF, they're not a Sanyo, Powerex or Immedion anything.

    You can get into trouble by thinking of the utility of the battery by the mAh ratings. We don't care about performance at the low levels those ratings reflect, we're looking for exceptionally high current rates. This means internal resistance (a specification usually not given) is the key here, it determines how much heat can be delivered to the trench where we want it and how little is produced doing it in the battery where we don't.

    MF Engineering is solid, they use the best battery available for the use and have from the start. It's hard to go wrong with 'the factory battery'.

    OF
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  8. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    Custom made by whom? I'm guessing since they have a relationship with Maha they'd stick with them. The batch codes on the batteries could reveal who makes them with a little detective work. Anyone want to post some pictures of the new batteries? This would be the place to do it.

    All I know is I've used Powerex 2700s for years for many applications lights, mp3 players etc. and I found out quick that a companies mAh rating means very little. Several batteries like the Eneloops and even the Tenergy 2300mAh LSD cells (IIRC the MFLB used these cells at one time early on) all out perform the Powerex 2700s and I even see this using the Launch Box comparing the factory Powerex 2700s to say the Immedion 2400s unwrapped.

    I'm not trolling here, but you can't say they have used the best battery from the start when they have used AT LEAST 4 different batteries that I know of and I wasn't following the MFLB from the beginning.
  9. Darkedhunter

    Darkedhunter Active Member

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    33
    Well... Best is pretty subjective, especially when it comes to the MFLB. xD I believe in the beginning, they were attempting to use a battery that was user friendly and did not produce vapor clouds. (In their documentation they wrote that excess exhaled vapor was wasted vapor, which is an argument that has it's merits)

    The changes in batteries have always been in the interest of the consumer, at least from my point of view. In some ways the reflect the changing expectations of the vaporizer market, with consumers wanting faster, harder hitting vaporizers each passing day.

    From what others have said on this thread, these proprietary batteries are the best option at the moment. Does that mean that the batteries paired with the MFLB during its release were not the best option? Probably not. Does that mean in a few years time there will not be a new battery that outperforms the current ones? Again, probably not.
  10. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Your experience with the Powerex 2700s vs other batteries flies in the face of the experience of almost every other person who has posted here about them, including my own. Until Magic-Flight introduced their custom battery the agreement was virtually unanimous that the 2700s out-perform everything else.

    I'm not sure which factory you mean when you say "factory Powerex 2700s" but if you mean Magic-Flight then you are mistaken. They have never shipped 2700s. If you want the story behind Magic-Flight's battery choices then read the MFLB Vaporpedia entry for the section on batteries, specifically the question What batteries does Magic-Flight ship/recommend?

    I don't understand your comment at all about Magic-Flight not using the best batteries from the start. First of all, nobody made that assertion although I believe that they did choose the best option they had at the time. Second, I don't see why changing the stock battery is somehow seen as a negative. It seems to me that if they discovered there was a better battery than their current choice, it would be a positive for everyone if they switched. Better performance wasn't actually the reason for switching until they developed their own batteries anyway, as the Vaporpedia article describes.

    Finally, you are putting way too much emphasis on the mAh rating. mAh is a measure of capacity not power. What matters to the LB is the discharge curve and the internal resistance, not how much the battery holds. Yes, they recommend a lower limit of 2000 mAH, but that is because a lower capacity battery will not get you through a trench, not because they won't work at all. I've used 1500 mAh batteries successfully, just not for long.
    Kief, Vicki, RUDE BOY and 3 others like this.
  11. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    10,607
    Location:
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    Again, experience at more normal current levels is not useful here, really. This is an exceptional use, well outside the guaranteed specs. I don't believe MF ever used Tenergy batteries as they were never the best available at the time? Today they recommend only the Maha 2700 HSD and 2400 LSD units aside from the custom ones they've just introduced. Those two have a modest but useful edge over the other depending on the usage pattern of the owner. There's a wealth of information on this thread on this topic, you might want to review that?

    Published mAh ratings are, I think, very honest with honest battery sellers. There are very strict industry rules for how those measurements are made, well policed and reviewed. They're just not useful to us in an absolute way. You can buy a top end charger like the popular Maha C9000 and test this yourself under the proscribed conditions. Lots of us have and trust the published numbers for what they are.

    If you think about it a bit, the trade offs made to get the internal resistance down (shorter and thicker current paths inside for the most part) eat up the space active chemicals could take to give higher raw numbers. Numbers sell so normally that trade off (in favor of extreme current levels) is normally tilted away from our needs.

    I think I can absolutely state my opinion that they have used the best available battery at any point in time (at least from one set of perspectives), can you show any case where they used an inferior battery? As conditions changed they quickly adopt the best for their customers.

    Think what you wish, but you'd carry more weight I think with an solid example or two to back it up?

    OF
    Buildozer, Kief, Vicki and 2 others like this.
  12. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    I just stopped using the super high capacity batteries that were NOT of the low self discharge type years ago as the problem is sure if you use them immediately in a high drain device like a digital camera it is great or if you keep them on a trickle charger then they work awesome. If you are like me and charge them and then expect to use them 3 months later (due to owning SEVERAL dozens of NiMH AA and AAA batteries) you will be saddly disappointed after they fail to work. Energizer 2500mAh AAA's were some of the worst offenders for this high discharge rate and there are several threads about this over in CandlePowerForums, battery subforum. Powerex's I have owned spanned from the early models that were 1800mAh all the way to the 2700mAh versions. The discharge rate was what made these seem inferior. It wasn't until the Eneloops took the world by storm with the low discharge rate batteries, that competitors followed suit with their own (or just relabelled Eneloops AKA Duraloops/Duracell) LSD batteries to stay competitive.

    That's my mistake there as I do recall reading the Vaporpedia page on the MFLB way back before I bought mine and it does say they shipped with the 2400 Immedions but that they recommend the 2700 Powerex cells.

    That wasn't my comment, but my response as OF made that comment about them using the best batteries at that time. I was basically replying that the statement cannot be true if there were several vendors over that course of time (Vaporpedia lists 6 different battery vendors). Not saying that Magic Flight wasn't interested in the best battery for their product, but like they mentioned in the Vaporpedia article, when they were using Tenergy and found out they were receiving batteries with much less capacity than 2600mAh which is what they were buying, they severed ties with Tenergy. So my statement would be true in that those Tenergy 2600 mAh cells were not the best batteries at that time. To be honest I am a battery geek and at that time the Tenergy 2300 LSD were the best (from Tenergy) as the 2600's were known in the battery and light community as dogs.

    Contrary, I am actually agreeing with your point that capacity is just one variable and one in that is usually a marketing/selling point to the uninformed consumer that just assumed bigger is better.

    The Vaporpedia article does state they used Tenergy 2600mAh cells originally (which had they used the 2300 LSD cells available also at that time) they would have been much better off as they are similar to the Immedion 2400's they were just recently using)

    I own a Maha Wizard One C9000 (actually 6 of them) as well as 3 LaCrosse BC-900s as well as several other brand chargers accumulated over the years (Eneloop/Duracell/Energizer/Ray-O-Vac/Maha C770/Maha C204/MahaC240 etc.)

    I agree 100% and I would love to try these new batteries with the MFLB. Is it true they won't be available for sale (individually) until late summer or early fall? I really don't need a second MFLB just to get new batteries, even though I would love a Walnut MFLB but not practical just for a new color box.

    I never disputed the idea they wanted the best battery for their product. I was just stating the idea that if they used 6 different companies, that all 6 couldn't be the best. Simple as that. But to answer your point, in the Vaporpedia article it does mention they got duped by Tenergy when they were using their 2600mAh cells and Tenergy decided to make the cells slightly 10mm or mills smaller where they wouldn't work in the MFLB as well as the stated capacity not being accurate but outright fraud.

    To both pakololo and OF, I was really hoping for more discussion on the problem of the MFLB leaking herb out of the plastic lid more than a battery discussion (but that was cool too). I'm thinking if there was a way to tighten the lid somehow maybe this would be a non-issue. While the click top lid is cool it doesn't completely prevent the lid from opening on it's own while in a pocket. I've had empty trenches before from the lid opening slightly, and was going through the lint in my pocket like a crack fiend, not good...

    mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
  13. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

    Messages:
    4,767
    Location:
    Milky Way Galaxy
    You have a problem with the lid coming open, even with the upgrade to the locking lid?
  14. Vitolo

    Vitolo Vaporist

    Messages:
    5,702
    Location:
    The Vapor Trail
    Use the rubber band along with the click lock.
    Use a sucrets box or other container that is a solid shell.
    [​IMG]
    The box has a slight channel in it.... that a TINY...very Minute amount of the finest ground herb can get into.
    Do not obsess about that channel.
    the couple of crumbs will lodge there and prevent further crumbs from gathering.
    REALLY..
    weigh what has come through and you will find it to be minimal... maybe un measurable on a scale.
    That is the nature of the box.
    vapirtoo, RUDE BOY, OF and 1 other person like this.
  15. Your Highness

    Your Highness Cannasseur

    Messages:
    265
    Location:
    Planet of the Vapes
    I have been using my box more and more lately and have been enjoying it very much. I just went ahead and got a second box in Cherry along with the PA. The more you get to know your box and get your technique down...the more you will come to love it and "connect" to it. It took me a year to really begin to enjoy and really get to know my box due to all of my other options. But in the end, now I find myself gravitating towards it the most...
    OF, Vicki and Buildozer like this.
  16. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,607
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Good, glad to hear we're in agreement, please excuse me for misreading your insistence that since they'd changed their opinion of what was the best that that decision wasn't guided by the search for the best? No, wait, aren't you basically still saying that? You're saying since it was 5 changes there's something afoot? Would 4 be OK? I don't see any evidence of anyone being "duped", rather I understand that MF extensively tested available units (an ongoing process I think?), from the Launch Tube days way before the Launch Box ever saw the light of day as I understand? Their decisions were based on dependable test results, not numbers off the web I think.

    As I think you'll find were similar choices by Delta 9 for their products, Flashvape for S1 and S2, Thermovape for a whole series of products as well as others. All based on real world testing with their gear.

    This idea of respecting Internal Resistance as being a significant factor i and often at odds with simple minded following posted capacity numbers is not unique here. You'll find lots of discussion and 'in the know' decisions based on just this point in the Omicron, Persei, FalshVape, Palm and several of the TV threads (currently the Cera one). And as I said, the history of this very thread is rich with this very discussion. I again suggest you might want to review that before consuming lots of otherwise useful bandwidth plowing the same field over again?

    If you poke around some I think you'll find this too has been discussed in some detail. It varies with the style of the vent cut (the current one seems worst in most guy's opinions?) and somewhat from box to box. Many of us are having great success with using a small tab of tape or similar to partially block the passage near the bowl edge.

    OF
    Vicki and Kief like this.
  17. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    yes, but more of a problem the the finely ground herb wedging it's way under the plexi cover and once opened the lid sweeps it out of the box. I am OCD and would like to eliminate this completely or at least minimize it 99%

    too late I have already become obssessed about the channel and the minute amount of finely ground herb that can and will escape if the box is travelling with you via your pocket and the loose herb is rolling around in the trench. I don't remember my box coming with the rubber band as I got one of the newer ones with the click lock lid. I may try the Altoids tin, but part of the benefit of the MFLB was in it's small size, and carrying around an Altoids tin in my front pocket besides all the other crap I already carry will not be possible.

    Is there a way to tighten the lid? Can the metal rod that holds the lid be bent or pressed in to provide more force against the lid safely? Also the click lock ball bearing doesn't seem to "latch" that well which is probably due to the lid being looser than it was originally when it was new.

    mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
  18. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    1,793
    Vito you took me right back to the early '70s with the Sucrets box , never left home without one .
    OF likes this.
  19. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

    Messages:
    4,767
    Location:
    Milky Way Galaxy
    I have OCD too, but I had to accept that a teeny amount of herb can and will get into that little channel. It bothered me too, but there really isn't anything you can do about it.
  20. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    Weren't you the very person telling me to read the Vaporpedia article on MFLB? I did and it contradicts your statements (1 from the other thread about you claiming they never used Tenergy). I will post the section on their choices for batteries since the beginning as it is helpful and in case you've never read it before, enlightening...


    What batteries does Magic-Flight ship/recommend?

    In late 2012 Magic-Flight introduced a custom battery designed specifically for the LB. They have not released details but the battery appears to be a 2400 mAh battery with the ability to hold a charge like an LSD battery, but with a power discharge curve that delivers even more power than the HSD Powerex 2700s. These are the batteries currently shipped with the Box. Maha Powerex 2700s (for frequent users) and Imedion 2400s (for occasional users) continue to be good alternate choices.
    Magic-Flight originally started shipping Tenergy batteries, but had to drop that brand and switch to Eneloop. The basic story is that they received several batches from Tenergy that were not compliant to specification, and had to be rejected. As with most battery companies, they print a much higher mAh rating on the battery than it can actually deliver. Magic-Flight had been buying Tenergy batteries listed at 2600 direct from the manufacturer, and then stripping the label and reselling them as if they had a 2000 mAh rating, since that is what they actually measured out as. (The Maha C-9000 charger is good for this). Although Magic-Flight did this at some loss, it at least ensured that the batteries they shipped were what they needed to be to operate the Box.
    Some companies are far worse--eg batteries listed as 2700 mAh rated that actually only delivered 500 mAh, clearly and criminally mislabeled! Without an accurate power metering system, there is no way the public would ever know, and so dishonest battery makers get away with it. Buyer beware!
    In any case, Tenergy started playing games also--they started shipping batteries that were 10 mills smaller (ie, would no longer fit the Box correctly), and which only had 1500 mAh capacity, despite being the same part number, same distribution channel, same label on each battery, same high cost, etc. Considering that Magic-Flight was being billed at 2600 mAh capacity, this was unacceptable, since the batteries were now too small and too weak to operate the Box reliably. Magic-Flight considered legal action, but decided that in any case they would have to switch brands immediately. As such, they began shipping Eneloop batteries and can no longer recommend the Tenergy brand.
    For many LB buyers, the Eneloop is a good choice. It has the advantage of holding a charge for much longer than most batteries. This is good since it ensures that the batteries can be delivered to the purchaser charged, even if the Box happens to be sitting on a retail store shelf for awhile. Many people seem to use the Box on an occasional or infrequent basis, and for these people, having batteries hold their charge for months is especially advantageous. One downside of the Eneloop batteries is that they should not be charged in fast (15 minute) chargers, as this can decrease the life of the battery.
    Unfortunately, Sanyo was purchased by Panasonic and the resulting supply disruption forced yet another battery switch, this time to Maha Energy Imedions (2400 mAh). Since the introduction of their custom battery, however, Magic-Flight no longer ships or sells these.
    For people who generally use the Box every day, or multiple times every day, Magic-Flight used to recommend Powerex 2700 batteries and (only if you need the speed) the Energizer 15 minute charger. People who do this need to be sure to keep track of which batteries are which--this is important. Otherwise, get a Maha charger--you cannot go wrong with that one (although it is pricey) or alternately, use the charger that ships bundled with the Box (which will also charge any NiMH battery--at no additional cost).
    For those people who simply want to use the Box and not worry about batteries, you will always be able to purchase cells and chargers from magic-flight.com that are sure to work correctly with the Box.


    Thanks I will have to read some more of the 848 pages here. I went back and read page 800-847 last evening before posting.
  21. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,607
    Location:
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    Make him show you the photo of his camouflage 'false bottom' liner sheet......truly inspirational IMO.

    "Sage of the High Desert" indeed.....

    No, that was not me, was it?

    OF
    RUDE BOY likes this.
  22. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

    Messages:
    1,793
    1828K if you go to page 836 of this thread post # 20880 there's a link to help lock the LB a little more maybe that will help you a little .
    Even my new walnut box came with the rubber bands .
    Vicki likes this.
  23. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

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    Yeah I saw that, but I would prefer a better way without defacing my MFLB by permanently melting a groove from the rod into the plexiglass lid. At this point, a rubber band would be a better "temporary" solution until I find out if the lid can be tightened somehow. Besides, it doesn't really address the problem of the herb slipping between the wooden box and the plexi lid. Now to find out some info on what OF was talking about by applying tape around the bowl area to minimize leakage....
  24. Vitolo

    Vitolo Vaporist

    Messages:
    5,702
    Location:
    The Vapor Trail
    I tighten my boxes lids ....
    Open the lid completely (180ยบ from original position)
    ..press firmly down on the pin now... that it has NO lid there restricting it.
    You will find lid to be much tighter upon closing.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    vapirtoo, Vicki and RUDE BOY like this.
  25. 1828K

    1828K Active Member

    Messages:
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    Yeah I did try that last evening and it did "seem" a little tighter but I couldn't tell if I was imagining that as I only used finger pressure to press down the rod once the plexi was opened.

    I've been searching what OF mentioned about using tape around the channel near the bowl to prevent herb leakage but have not found anything relating to that yet. So far I have searched, spillage, leakage, loose herb and nothing appearing to my question other than my actual question appearing in the search query.

    OF, care to give some hints on how to do this mod with pictures please? Thanks.

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