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The Magic-Flight Box

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, May 16, 2009.

  1. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    That's good to know.

    I'm still not understanding why it wouldn't work though?.

    The only thing I can think of is the hash wasn't broken up that well, but you stated you tried this, so the only thing I can think of is the speed of inhale is preventing enough heat to melt some parts of the concentrate being that the launch box doesn't hold heat very well. Remember a concentrate is a mixture of lower, medium, and high temperature boiling oils. This means if the concentrate isn't broken up well, and the heat is low, only the surface of the concentrate will boil, while the higher boiling substances won't, and they will block the other lower temp substances form being released that are in the core of the concentrate, due to covering them. This doesn't happen with bud because the trichomes are separated enough, and they are small while on the bud.

    Vicki, can you try this technique out, and see how it works?.

    1-You break up the hash into sizes close to sesame seeds,

    2-Spread them apart so that they won't congeal onto each other

    3-Heat up the box for 10-15 seconds, then take VERY LITE inhales. When I state lite, I mean you are barely inhaling anything into your mouth. You are inhaling so slow that your lungs aren't activated. All you are doing is SLOWLY bringing the vapor into your mouth. Do this for 10-15 seconds. Then do a deep inhale as you normally do.

    Drink some water before the inhale so you don't dry out your mouth, and to cool the vapor down.
     
  2. Vitolo

    Vitolo Vaporist

    Messages:
    6,399
    Location:
    The Vapor Trail
    The concentrate tray is only hot on its surface.
    hash is a solid, not a liquid, and can not "flow" onto a hot surface,
    and cook to turn to vapor.
    Hash no mater how finely ground is not liquid, and requires some type of air flow... or if conductive, a source of heat that is oven-like (like the MFLB without the tray!) or like an Iolite's chamber.
     
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  3. al bundy

    al bundy Vaporist

    Messages:
    644
    Location:
    S.I.N.Y.
  4. HopefulHumanist

    HopefulHumanist New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I found these plastic containers and they look perfect! Just gotta verify with the company that the advertised diameter is of the case without the lid, since that is what will have to sit flush with the trench.

    Also, as far cases go, I think something like this VapeCase is what I'm looking for. If I can't find anything comparable with a lower price tag, I'll probably just pull the trigger on that one.
     
  5. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    Vitolo, you know I respect you, but hash is a solid when it is at room temperature, and melts when heat hits it. Now this applies to clean hash, that doesn't have plant matter in it like full melt hash. Also, hash that is full of essential oils tend to melt with low heat. When your hash doesn't melt, it's because it is full of plant matter. In that case you can use the regular launch box or any vaporizer. You just have break it up so the oils don't congeal, and block airflow.

    Hash, and oil, are essentially the same it's just that oil is easier to make then hash. Bubblehash is well known because with the proper technique, and plants, you can get a clean melty hash similar to oil. You are using water to move the trichomes off of the plant, whereas with butane or other solvents they are extracting the trichome being that they are non-polar.

    Anyway, much respect to you, and everyone else. I guess I will have to get the tray when it comes out to see what's up. Peace everyone.
     
  6. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD

    Messages:
    4,337
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    Hash and oil behave very differently with some heat. For one, hash has a lot more plant matter. Solvent extraction through filters is cleaner and will vaporize cleaner and easier.
     
    Vicki likes this.
  7. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Cool, your time, your money. You asked, we answered. Three of us who've actually tried, all with the same (disappointing) answer.

    This is a known thing. "Full melts" don't cut it. Bubble hash doesn't work. Water extracts don't. The foil test is valid I believe, nobody has found an exception. The same constraints are true with some other vapes that use the same system, but not with Volcano and others that don't (clue there).

    By all means try it, but don't hold your breath?

    "When 3 men in a row tell you you're drunk, it's probably time to sit down for a bit'.

    OF
     
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  8. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    I have seen full melt hash vape CLEAN, just like oil. When people make water hash, they tend to stir the water too much releasing a lot of trichome stalks, and dilute the trichomes. If they use broken plants, even more plant fibers dilute the trichomes. If you just agitate the water very little, make sure the plant stays UNDER the ice, you can get pure trichomes. I seen someone use ultrasonic method, and their hash was just like oil when heated up. The more popular water hash got, and dispensaries started calling their hash full melt, the more I started seeing low quality hash being pushed as clean hash. That is also when I started seeing oils become popular. Have you ever noticed how cheap the full melt hashes are compared to the oils, even though they are essentially the same thing?. It's because when most people sell full melt hash, they are selling their low quality hash, while keeping the real deal to themselves. If they did sell it, it would go for at least $65 a gram, but most people won't buy that, so that keep it for themselves.

    Anyway, back to the original MFLB conversation. Have fun.
     
    justcametomind likes this.
  9. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD

    Messages:
    4,337
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    Oh, I tried a small ball of hash as well. Regular "solid" dispensary hash. Once. Every single other time has been with BHO. It just works a lot better. Hope they're cheap so you don't spend too much money experimenting :2c:

    Perhaps charas will work, my understanding of it is that it's made while the plant is still in the ground and alive (by rubbing the colas between your hands and breaking the trichome heads) but the hash I tried wasn't too fun. JeeSee would probably be the first report of hand hash in the tray.

    Take pictures and/or video if/when you attempt it, I'm curious to see how our experiences line up.

    By the way, if you've got time to kill, I believe this is the Strain Hunters episode where they talk a lot about charas. It's so cool to see other cultures and how they utilize it.

     
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  10. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Cool. But vaping cleanly from a nail or swing doesn't count. The box will never get close to that hot. Waxes will remain and quickly foul it out (like with the first load). Go with the foil test, look for the 'quickly melts and flows freely' part, that counts too.

    Full melts are not the same as oils, at least not around here. The first is mechanical, the second solvents. The solvents used (generally) don't carry bad stuff over like happens with mechanical processes. The key here is the solvent part, at least that's what experience has shown so far.

    "Supermelts" generally pass the foil test and therefore are fine. "Full Melts" still have stuff in them and don't. That's the experience, hence the advice.

    Good luck with it.

    OF
     
  11. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    I don't dab, just heat from a match when I do it. When done with a vaporizer, it all comes down to what size of hash is used, and how separated they are. I explained why already. If you see any type of blackness with clean hash/oil, that comes from the heat degrading the oils, being that the heat is trapped in the core of the concentrate, and the essential oils not being allowed to boil away quickly. THC, and the waxes, are clear, so that color is not from them directly, but from the degradation of using a chunk of material, and high heat.

    The foil technique is good, but if you have high essential oil(taste,odor) content in you concentrate you will get a black color due to degradation from the high heat. A lot of oils don't have too much low boiling essential oils so they don't get this effect when heated, at least not as much as hash that has no heat that has been applied to it during the drying process. A lot of people use a warming technique to get rid of the solvents when making oils, and you also get rid of a lot of the essential oils when you do this, as they boil at really low temperatures.

    This time I'm really done, I just love talking about concentrates or in other words trichomes. Peace.
     
  12. BigDaddyVapor

    BigDaddyVapor @BigDogJunction

    Messages:
    3,001
    I have some bubble hash. I can try it... but I can tell you already it won't work.

    My BHO shatter works perfect. Lasts a long time to.

    As for cases... there can be only one!

    Burton - The Kit (clickable)
    [​IMG]
     
  13. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    This is the size I mean when in use.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. BigDaddyVapor

    BigDaddyVapor @BigDogJunction

    Messages:
    3,001
    All that's left of my bubble hash, would be considered hash kief.

    Welp... that was a miserable failure. Though, I did have a follow-up session with BHO, finally found the right amount.

    Here's the bubble hash before and after, I tried.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    Thanks a lot for trying.

    I see some heat did hit the hash though, as it congealed, and got darker, so time will tell what's going on. Yes I am :mental: when trying to find answers for things.

    BTW, what amount did you find worked with BHO?. Using fullmelt cleardome hash will work like the BHO, so it would be nice to know so I don't waste anything.
     
  16. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,510
    Location:
    Southeast of Disorder
    My man Buildozer did some testing of max weights for the concentrate tray and he tells me that .05g is the max load without spillage. So best to keep it under that. Say .025 - .04g.

    :peace:
     
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  17. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl SPACE GOD

    Messages:
    4,337
    Location:
    SDCA, 3rd Planet
    What's happening is the heat isn't being applied properly. When you add BHO and it melts in, it starts vaporizing on the floor of the tray/quartz pad. The reason it works so much better is because the heat is being directly transferred into the mass of oil. The bubble sitting on top of the screen like that, is the same concept that the FlashVape S2 mod uses, except this one isn't working as efficiently. Where's the majority of the heat from the LB coming from? The floor of the trench. The problem here is the floor of the trench is in direct contact with the base/floor of the Concentrate Tray. Only so much heat makes it up to the screen section. This is why melty stuff works exponentially better, because the characteristics allow it to flow to where there's more heat.

    Edit: also air flow! The air is coming from above the hash, down through the hole. You would want it to be reversed, so that the heat from below/retained in the CT flows through the hash/bubble before exiting, instead of the heat below, flowing directly away from the hash above it and to the air path hole.
     
  18. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    I agree with everything you wrote, but the way I see it, the mflb screen is one big heater that will heat the air that comes into contact with it, which is the whole trench. The only thing is it doesn't hold heat very well because it is so thin. This is why I think the airflow has to be so slow that you are barely inhaling anything. The air has more time to stay into contact with the hash, allowing better extraction. Of course you will still have to break the hash up a few times as it will congeal, and not vape as efficiently as it would if it were to stay apart because now you're doing convection vaporizing instead of conduction.
     
  19. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Left Coast
    True, it will heat the air all right, but most of the air it heats is then either sucked out of the bottom or rises uselessly to the lid to cool off. There's no action to force the air into contact with the hash, in fact just the opposite.

    There's barely enough power in conduction (it almost demands the PA at full blast), more than you'd use normally for bud. Going from conduction to convection needs LOTS more power, we just don't have it available in MFLB.

    There's just too little hot air (and most of that going the wrong way), and what there is is not hot enough. Too few degrees. It can be done, the LL Cera cart does a great job with bubble. It just uses a lot more energy to make hot air and directs that hot air through the load......two things we don't have working for us here.

    Good luck with your very rare 'BHO like cleardome'. You might be able to melt enough to get some in the pad? However, basically nobody else has access to that stuff. Folks should understand that the bubble hash at the local dispensary is not going to work. The only concentrates there that will work are the solvent refined oils and waxes that pass the foil test.

    OF
     
  20. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    772
    From what I see the mflb is heated from side to side, not just the bottom screen. The bottom screen just get's caught up in the mix, as the current travels between the two rods. You are slowly bringing this heated air to come into contact with the hash. Being that the mflb heats up so fast, this should be easy to do. Again, your inhale is very important for this to work.
    http://www.vaporpedia.com/wiki/Magic-Flight_Launch_Box

    [​IMG]

    There is no need to keep talking about this because unless the technique is used correctly we are just speculating. I will post up the results when I get what's needed.

    BTW, that tray would also be good to make the mflb a true convection vaporizer, and prevent burning on the bottom of your herb.
     
  21. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Left Coast
    I think we're finally in at least partial agreement here. There is no need to discuss this further at this point.

    Several of us think it won't work because of our experience with herb in the box and because we tried it and it doesn't work. You might think it's because we're just too dense or clueless or lack the proper skills but I tend to think collectively we gave it a good try and the average owner will fare no better. In fact, you might not......

    I don't think it makes MFLB into a convection vaporizer at all. The airflow is backwards and there's just not enough power to go wasting it heating air......air keeps MFLB from getting hot enough to make vapor, not the other way around.

    We shall see.

    Thanks for the thoughts.

    OF
     
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  22. BigDaddyVapor

    BigDaddyVapor @BigDogJunction

    Messages:
    3,001
    Eh... no one listens to me.

    I don't know @#$%. :drool:
     
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  23. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,119
    Location:
    Other side of your screen
    Pretty sure the only one not listening is luchiano.
     
  24. BigDaddyVapor

    BigDaddyVapor @BigDogJunction

    Messages:
    3,001
    That last picture, I swear looks like little, tiny piles of pooh, on the tray. Son of a... I put that on top of a HI load to finish it off.

    Think I'm going to be sick... :puke:
     
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  25. Vicki

    Vicki The Bionic Woman

    Messages:
    5,657
    That's what I was thinking. We all told him it does not work well. I don't understand why he doesn't believe us. :huh:
     
    OF likes this.

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